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Conflicting Reports: Will Jermichael Finely Return?
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Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2552
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finley has a couple good games and all of a sudden the Pack needs him? Sorry guys, they were good games, NOT great. The Packers are better off without Finley and the problems he brings to the table and the drain of cap dollar / performance.

What message do you send to the players in the locker room? Hey, if you're gifted, and flash every once in awhile, here's a big check! Draft and develop is all about the locker room, and this is what you're going to bring to it!?!? Not going to happen.

Oh, and if you don't have the physical talent, but bust your butt, you can pull the cart while the high priced guy does his best Johnny Knoxville impression. Look, Finley has shown what he is, and what he is ain't nothing that can't be drafted in the 3rd round.

Right now the Pack is letting Finley put a tape together... Which is what a class organization does.
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have to pay Finley 8M a year right now. If you extend him you could get him in the 5-6 range. We had to pony up more this last 2 year deal to stay away from the long term deal--which we did mostly because of his previous injury--his mouth was a small part--I'd sign Finley--and he's dumb enough to take it as evident by his last deal--5 years, 30 Mil including a 5 Mil signing bonus and backload it to save face if we have to cut or trade him.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10471
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
You don't have to pay Finley 8M a year right now. If you extend him you could get him in the 5-6 range. We had to pony up more this last 2 year deal to stay away from the long term deal--which we did mostly because of his previous injury--his mouth was a small part--I'd sign Finley--and he's dumb enough to take it as evident by his last deal--5 years, 30 Mil plus a 5 Mil signing bonus.


I don't see why you'd make a long term investment in Finley unless the deal is so extremely team friendly you can cut him at any time without dead money.

He thinks he breaks the mold for TEs and is worth WR money which just isn't the case.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 31626
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=5841&is_corp=1


People NEED to read this. This is almost exactly what I stated several times before.

In a nutshell, it's not ideal that Finley needs to be hand-held a bit (which was the case in not showing up to talk shop with Rodgers) but I said it is probably worth it to put in the extra effort (Rodgers on his own, or perhaps even after a talk with MM decided to force the meeting to happen) and I thought it would pay off in the end (they've been meeting every since and his production is increasing).

It was my stance that if you put in the extra time (though ideally you don't have to babysit grown men) it will pay off.

I stand by that and use this little piece as evidence of the larger picture.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, with 4 catches this week Finley will break the team record for most receptions by a TE in a season.
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GBPackers79


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19882
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/common/page.php?feed=2&id=5841&is_corp=1


That was nice.

One thing about Finley is that you can take him for his word. Things may be coming together.
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Polaris


Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 3135
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty clear to me that M3 wants an offense that runs the ball better than we have since he's been here, and that he's finally willing to run the ball in order to shorten the game, help the defense, and protect the QB.

Finley is not much of an asset in the run game.

When M3/Rodgers throw, they like to throw downfield and with Jones and Nelson on the outside and Cobb in the slot they can do that more effectively if the opponent has to commit more to stopping the run.

You want those three guys on the field and you want to give them the ball. And the RB is going to be getting the ball. To fill that 5th skill position spot we could go with another WR (Boykins or a draft pick), a fullback (Kuhn), or a TE. But in any event he's going to be the 5th option on offense, at best.

Against this backdrop, I don't see why the organization would think it needs to commit a large sum of money to keep Finley here. IMO, they could use that money elsewhere and get along just fine with some of their other TEs.
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ChaRisMa


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People keep looking to Finley to catch 100 balls and score 15 TDs. There's nothing wrong with 55 for 600 yards and 6TDs when you are drawing plenty of attention and the 4th option in the passing game. Pay him--so he can forget about numbers, add blocking strength, and feel appreciated.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
People keep looking to Finley to catch 100 balls and score 15 TDs. There's nothing wrong with 55 for 600 yards and 6TDs when you are drawing plenty of attention and the 4th option in the passing game. Pay him--so he can forget about numbers, add blocking strength, and feel appreciated.


For the kind of money Finley thinks he's worth, 2 years 15 mil or 8.5 mil next season, you better believe I expect him to do a TON better than 55 catches for 600 yds and 6 TDs. The kind of stats he's putting up you can find guys who can do that on their rookie contracts for 2 mil a year or less or vets who will do it for 4-5 mil per year tops.

Why pay him so he can forget about the numbers unless that price tag reflects the production he can actually put up? A 4th option in the passing game (at BEST) isn't worth much more than half the price tag he is getting.
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CWood21


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChaRisMa wrote:
People keep looking to Finley to catch 100 balls and score 15 TDs. There's nothing wrong with 55 for 600 yards and 6TDs when you are drawing plenty of attention and the 4th option in the passing game. Pay him--so he can forget about numbers, add blocking strength, and feel appreciated.


Those numbers are okay with a 8.5 million cap hold?
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GBPackers79


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
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Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
People keep looking to Finley to catch 100 balls and score 15 TDs. There's nothing wrong with 55 for 600 yards and 6TDs when you are drawing plenty of attention and the 4th option in the passing game. Pay him--so he can forget about numbers, add blocking strength, and feel appreciated.


For the kind of money Finley thinks he's worth, 2 years 15 mil or 8.5 mil next season, you better believe I expect him to do a TON better than 55 catches for 600 yds and 6 TDs. The kind of stats he's putting up you can find guys who can do that on their rookie contracts for 2 mil a year or less or vets who will do it for 4-5 mil per year tops.

Why pay him so he can forget about the numbers unless that price tag reflects the production he can actually put up? A 4th option in the passing game (at BEST) isn't worth much more than half the price tag he is getting.


How do you know what money he thinks he's worth?

Serious question. Did he say something?
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GBPackers79 wrote:
spilltray wrote:
ChaRisMa wrote:
People keep looking to Finley to catch 100 balls and score 15 TDs. There's nothing wrong with 55 for 600 yards and 6TDs when you are drawing plenty of attention and the 4th option in the passing game. Pay him--so he can forget about numbers, add blocking strength, and feel appreciated.


For the kind of money Finley thinks he's worth, 2 years 15 mil or 8.5 mil next season, you better believe I expect him to do a TON better than 55 catches for 600 yds and 6 TDs. The kind of stats he's putting up you can find guys who can do that on their rookie contracts for 2 mil a year or less or vets who will do it for 4-5 mil per year tops.

Why pay him so he can forget about the numbers unless that price tag reflects the production he can actually put up? A 4th option in the passing game (at BEST) isn't worth much more than half the price tag he is getting.


How do you know what money he thinks he's worth?

Serious question. Did he say something?


Because when he was franchise tagged as a TE he appealed saying he should get WR tag money. Green Bay pretty much split the difference with the 2 year/15 mil deal. He thinks he's every bit the playmaker a top flight WR is and it's just not the case. If it was and he was willing to sign for 5.5-6 mil a year I'd bet the Packers would have him on a longer contract but he thinks he's worth more in the 7-8 mil range a year which is why he only got a 2 year "prove it" deal.
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Siman08/OH


Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
I just don't see how you can justify Finley's production as worth 8.5 mil next year (or 7.5 a year if you want to average this 2 year contract). 55 catches 700 yards and 6 TDs (as a rough average of his 3 seasons he's been able to stay on the field, more or less) ...Yes maybe if he kept at his highest level all the time you might see more like 70 for 1,000 and 9 TDs but I see no reason you can reasonably expect Finley to consistently play at his best. He is far from irreplacable and at times can be as much of a liability as an asset. I just don't see how that makes sense financially or in long term planning.


Where is he going to take those numbers from?

He fits in. We have a whole CREW of receiving targets, not 1 or 2 stats guys.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siman08/OH wrote:
spilltray wrote:
I just don't see how you can justify Finley's production as worth 8.5 mil next year (or 7.5 a year if you want to average this 2 year contract). 55 catches 700 yards and 6 TDs (as a rough average of his 3 seasons he's been able to stay on the field, more or less) ...Yes maybe if he kept at his highest level all the time you might see more like 70 for 1,000 and 9 TDs but I see no reason you can reasonably expect Finley to consistently play at his best. He is far from irreplacable and at times can be as much of a liability as an asset. I just don't see how that makes sense financially or in long term planning.


Where is he going to take those numbers from?

He fits in. We have a whole CREW of receiving targets, not 1 or 2 stats guys.


Which is why paying a premium for a TE who isn't top of the league elite makes no sense. Having a bunch of money invested in any 1 option in the receiving group doesn't make sense. Having a depth of options is the important part. Paying Finley like he is a top of the league elite TE isn't justified by his production. Gronkowski just signed an 8 year deal worth 6.9 mil a year. Finley is averaging 7.5 on his current deal. You can get the kind of production the Packers do out of Finley for alot less than what Finley makes and his attitude and effort levels aren't the kind that would make me feel good about giving him any sort of long term deal unless it's very little guaranteed money and very team friendly in it's terms. He also isn't worth anywhere close to the 2 year 15 mil deal he is currently playing on, especially with 8.5 of that due next year.
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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question: Is Finley the best pass catching TE in Packers history?
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