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BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3769
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just figured it out, Bo Jackson cursed us. Explains it all.
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Renegades5544


Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1647
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to say that we should have just signed Lewis and Smith instead of trading for Revis. But it completely ignores the fact that Lewis was pretty dead set on going to play in New Orleans because it's his hometown. And in the lead up to free agency lots of people liked Smith, but he's been pretty inconsistent and arguably disappointing since being drafted. Maybe we just honestly felt like he wasn't worth investing starter money into.

Dom has no problem spending money on elite players. He did it with Jackson, he did it with Nicks, he did it with Goldson, and he's going to do it with Revis. Now you can argue til you're blue in the face that he's paying them for past production rather than potential future production but looking at his track record, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. He's overvalued a few players before (Black, Ward, Wright, Clayton, Koenen) but for the most part, those miscues were mid to above average sized free agent signings that didn't really handicap our salary cap maneuverability, especially now since all of them are off our roster.

Dom hasn't been the best drafter in the league, but he has been good to very good in my opinion. Barron, David, Claiborne, Bowers, Foster, McCoy, Williams, Martin have all shown Pro-Bowl potential and are all Dominik picks. He has a great track record with UDFAs. If Freeman takes the next step, which I am skeptical he will, Dom will be hailed as one of the best GMs in the league. If Freeman doesn't then maybe we need to start looking for someone who can evaluate QBs better, but it shouldn't be because he makes poor free agent signings or drafts poorly. After we trade for Revis, I think we will have one of the strongest up and coming rosters in the entire league.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7284
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
It may not be fair, but Dom does have a pretty lame draft history beyond round 1.


In all honesty I would say the Bucs as an organization has only had maybe 3-4 drafts where we can look back and say we came out great. 76, 95 and looking like 12 are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.


He has had no consistency. Not every year will we have a great draft. But we don't really add guys that contribute.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3769
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
It may not be fair, but Dom does have a pretty lame draft history beyond round 1.


In all honesty I would say the Bucs as an organization has only had maybe 3-4 drafts where we can look back and say we came out great. 76, 95 and looking like 12 are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.


He has had no consistency. Not every year will we have a great draft. But we don't really add guys that contribute.


That's why i would hold off judging him until he has a second year with a HC that understands talent as well. We are basing this off of 3 years and mainly judging him on medicore drafts with a horrible HC. Dom just gets the blame because he is still here but we all knew Rah was a horrible personnel guy. He was convinced that we were set at CB with players like Talib, Lewis and Biggers.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7284
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24-40 under Dom. Just saying.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3769
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
24-40 under Dom. Just saying.


Why do you insist on Dom having the only say on draft picks??? He is not the end all on who we draft. We are not the Cowboys.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7284
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
It may not be fair, but Dom does have a pretty lame draft history beyond round 1.


In all honesty I would say the Bucs as an organization has only had maybe 3-4 drafts where we can look back and say we came out great. 76, 95 and looking like 12 are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.


He has had no consistency. Not every year will we have a great draft. But we don't really add guys that contribute.


That's why i would hold off judging him until he has a second year with a HC that understands talent as well. We are basing this off of 3 years and mainly judging him on medicore drafts with a horrible HC. Dom just gets the blame because he is still here but we all knew Rah was a horrible personnel guy. He was convinced that we were set at CB with players like Talib, Lewis and Biggers.
.

He was also convinced Eric wright was worth 35 mil over 5 years.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 3769
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
It may not be fair, but Dom does have a pretty lame draft history beyond round 1.


In all honesty I would say the Bucs as an organization has only had maybe 3-4 drafts where we can look back and say we came out great. 76, 95 and looking like 12 are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.


He has had no consistency. Not every year will we have a great draft. But we don't really add guys that contribute.


That's why i would hold off judging him until he has a second year with a HC that understands talent as well. We are basing this off of 3 years and mainly judging him on medicore drafts with a horrible HC. Dom just gets the blame because he is still here but we all knew Rah was a horrible personnel guy. He was convinced that we were set at CB with players like Talib, Lewis and Biggers.
.

He was also convinced Eric wright was worth 35 mil over 5 years.


Honestly, how I would've seen that play out would have been similar to VJ and Nicks contract. It seems like he gets players in with huge contracts to get them here and after the year he finds a way to restructure their contracts so they get paid and not hurt the bucs cap wise. To only be paying them both less than 2 mil cap hit for this year is crazy. Wright just changed that up with his suspension.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7284
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Dom good at working the cap? Of course. My issue is decision making as talet evaluation. For example: decided to overpay for Eric wright to fix a poor secondary last year.

Doesn't exactly have te best history in drafting well.
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ChaoticBuc3125


Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 1713
Location: From Boston, MA ... Hate Pats and rest of NFCS GO Bucs!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
.



Are you Shaun King?
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R.I.P LeeRoySelmon, R.I.P Deacon Jones, R.I.P Pat Summerall

Congrads to 55 on HOF! To Revis FU! & MG#8 & his mob must go!
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 8541
Location: El ramster on the sig
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renegades5544 wrote:
It's easy to say that we should have just signed Lewis and Smith instead of trading for Revis. But it completely ignores the fact that Lewis was pretty dead set on going to play in New Orleans because it's his hometown. And in the lead up to free agency lots of people liked Smith, but he's been pretty inconsistent and arguably disappointing since being drafted. Maybe we just honestly felt like he wasn't worth investing starter money into.

Dom has no problem spending money on elite players. He did it with Jackson, he did it with Nicks, he did it with Goldson, and he's going to do it with Revis. Now you can argue til you're blue in the face that he's paying them for past production rather than potential future production but looking at his track record, I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. He's overvalued a few players before (Black, Ward, Wright, Clayton, Koenen) but for the most part, those miscues were mid to above average sized free agent signings that didn't really handicap our salary cap maneuverability, especially now since all of them are off our roster.

Dom hasn't been the best drafter in the league, but he has been good to very good in my opinion. Barron, David, Claiborne, Bowers, Foster, McCoy, Williams, Martin have all shown Pro-Bowl potential and are all Dominik picks. He has a great track record with UDFAs. If Freeman takes the next step, which I am skeptical he will, Dom will be hailed as one of the best GMs in the league. If Freeman doesn't then maybe we need to start looking for someone who can evaluate QBs better, but it shouldn't be because he makes poor free agent signings or drafts poorly. After we trade for Revis, I think we will have one of the strongest up and coming rosters in the entire league.


Well said!
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Pvsports9


Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 1062
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HandsomeBob29 wrote:
With the issues with DaQuan being resolved, that definitely helps the defensive line situation a lot. But we all know Dom is not a fan of these corners in the first round outside of Dee Milliner. If we can get Revis without giving up this year's first, I can see us going with Austin because I feel like we'll be at a BPA mode for that pick.

But I agree with the Harvin comparisons. Although I think he's more of a Harvin/Demps hybrid. I feel like he's faster than Harvin but I feel like Harvin is more elusive in the open field. But the guys got that "it" talent along with the diversity of playing multiple positions which I think is critical to all NFL players.


When has Dom ever publicly discussed his feelings about the corners in this draft?

As far as Goldson and Revis- why the hell would their current ages matter? It's the age of when they actually step on the field for us that matters. Goldson was overpaid- fact. Revis will be overpaid by us if we trade for him- fact. Both players will help our defense immediately- fact

Will spending all of this money on two players help us win a Super Bowl?- doubtful but there's always a chance I guess.

If it were me- I would've just traded for Revis- signed a good to average corner and safety and also kept wright for his restructured deal

Drafted either star or Austin in round 1
One of the 300 nfl ready safety's or corners in round 2 depending who the bpa is
Revis deal for round 3
Pass rusher round 4
And either another pass rusher, OT, or backup QB with our second 4th unless a corner dropped to us

Revis, FA corner (Cason), wright as the main corners
Barron, FA safety (Kenny Phillips), draft pick and ronde as our safety's

And we still would've had a ton of cap space to go and lockup a solid pass rusher and RT like Avril and Andre smith.

Sounds like madden- but with the minimal contracts these guys signed we could've LOADED up on depth and talent
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7284
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing I didn't get was letting Roy miller walk either. He was a quality DT next to McCoy and him and Gibson could have rotated and all we needed was an UT that can rotate and rush the qb.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2681
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
The other thing I didn't get was letting Roy miller walk either. He was a quality DT next to McCoy and him and Gibson could have rotated and all we needed was an UT that can rotate and rush the qb.


Stop about Roy Miller, he is just another guy. I don't love his 1 1/2 career sacks. He played well at NT for one year, not great. Roy Miller can be replaced, I'm sorry he seemed like a good guy, but he is a marginal defensive linemen. McCoy made him a better player, not vice versa.
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 2806
Location: FL
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the arguments made on Dom, are real contradictory in here. The Draft and VJax/Nicks are all Schiano, but Dom is at fault for Wright? What? Why would you even bring up Talib as a argument? He didn't draft him, and flipped him for a fourth? Not saying some arguments are totally off base, but gotta be fair.
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