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Soul Glo
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 2758
Location: FL
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Soul Glo wrote: | Dude's better than Free  haha
You got like EJ for what he is, a potential QB... why are you using stats? It does not say much about a prospects. EJ is mentally way behind Free when he came out, his pocket abiltiy wasn't as good, does not have good downfield accuracy, more of a throwe than passer, tries to rocket everything, erratic.
He's huge, athletic, good kid, with arm talent but he's got work to do. He can get overwhelmed at times, needs to learn how to read defenses, carry an offense, and learn touch. He's a project for now, but don't know if I'd consider him till the 3rd unless I am comfortable with him on the bench for a little. |
I'm not sure you can say EJ is mentally far behind Freeman when he was coming out.
Freeman always had accuracy issues, mechanics, footwork, were inconsistent. Couldn't really win big games either (same issue in the pros). But physically, he had tremendous upside with a rocket arm.
I honestly, think EJ is more polished of a prospect than Josh Freeman when looking at the two as prospects coming out. EJ is more accurate, keeps his eyes down field, and is more decisive and is able to go through reads and look off defenders. |
Yes he is. I know your a Freeman basher and all, but there's a reason why Freeman was regarded as a first rounder and EJ is a day 2/3 pick. Freeman understood the defense, blitzes, more poised, made calls, and had a carry an offense at KSU when EJ never has had to carry an FSU one. It's almost ridiculous to say that EJ is not behind Freeman mentally as a prospect.
I like EJ Manuel and all but c'mon, I don't know if your watching the same kid as I am. I think he could turn out good if he is not rushed and gets placed in the right situation. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3792
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Soul Glo wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Soul Glo wrote: | Dude's better than Free haha
You got like EJ for what he is, a potential QB... why are you using stats? It does not say much about a prospects. EJ is mentally way behind Free when he came out, his pocket abiltiy wasn't as good, does not have good downfield accuracy, more of a throwe than passer, tries to rocket everything, erratic.
He's huge, athletic, good kid, with arm talent but he's got work to do. He can get overwhelmed at times, needs to learn how to read defenses, carry an offense, and learn touch. He's a project for now, but don't know if I'd consider him till the 3rd unless I am comfortable with him on the bench for a little. |
I'm not sure you can say EJ is mentally far behind Freeman when he was coming out.
Freeman always had accuracy issues, mechanics, footwork, were inconsistent. Couldn't really win big games either (same issue in the pros). But physically, he had tremendous upside with a rocket arm.
I honestly, think EJ is more polished of a prospect than Josh Freeman when looking at the two as prospects coming out. EJ is more accurate, keeps his eyes down field, and is more decisive and is able to go through reads and look off defenders. |
Yes he is. I know your a Freeman basher and all, but there's a reason why Freeman was regarded as a first rounder and EJ is a day 2/3 pick. Freeman understood the defense, blitzes, more poised, made calls, and had a carry an offense at KSU when EJ never has had to carry an FSU one. It's almost ridiculous to say that EJ is not behind Freeman mentally as a prospect.
I like EJ Manuel and all but c'mon, I don't know if your watching the same kid as I am. I think he could turn out good if he is not rushed and gets placed in the right situation. |
I'm not saying we absolutely need to draft Manuel. If we don't so be it. We ride Freeman and hope he comes through.
I don't see my self as a freeman basher. Sorry tht I make the analysis not judging him as a buc homer of fan. I view his play as an outsider and I call it how I see it. My view: qbs who are that inconsistent usually become career backups. (See Jason Campbell and Byron leftwich). I hope he puts it together for the sake of the franchise. But right now all his issues are intangibles. He can chuck it down the field but consistency, reading defense, (especially zones) being able to go through reads and look off defenders, accuracy in the intermediate throws, decision making, and keeping his poise and confidence is a lot to work on especially after 4 years in the league. |
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8610
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Front page is updated. Some other guys that we have interviewed at the combine:
EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State
Ricky Wagner, OT, Wisconsin
Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3792
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| DaRealdeal wrote: | Front page is updated. Some other guys that we have interviewed at the combine:
EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State
Ricky Wagner, OT, Wisconsin
Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State |
The Wisconsin pipe line for oline man along with our oline coach being from their previously I see Wagner being a strong option on day 3.
Interesting we interviewed Manuel the day we were "committed" to josh freeman. |
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scottonatable
Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 478
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BBando
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5866
Location: Tampa Bay
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Chris Mortensen @mortreport
Utah DT Star Lotulelei, projected top five 5 draft pick, will not work out after echocardiogram detected heart condition. Filed to ESPN. |
I hate seeing stuff like this.
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| simonwayne wrote: | | I don't recall blaming the officials for any other Thunder loss this season. |
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deuces22wild
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5677
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| BBando wrote: | | Quote: | Chris Mortensen @mortreport
Utah DT Star Lotulelei, projected top five 5 draft pick, will not work out after echocardiogram detected heart condition. Filed to ESPN. |
I hate seeing stuff like this. |
Ouch 
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BBando
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 5866
Location: Tampa Bay
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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Imagine if Star drops to us in the 2nd.
Banks/ Rhodes in the first
Star in the second
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| simonwayne wrote: | | I don't recall blaming the officials for any other Thunder loss this season. |
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5nick5
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1079
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BBando wrote: | Imagine if Star drops to us in the 2nd.
Banks/ Rhodes in the first
Star in the second
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I hope Star gets his condition all figured out. Maybe he could be the Jeff Green of DTs and turn out being a steal. I'd love to have the guy here in Tampa. A high-character guy who could round out the DL.
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Thanks to BGG on the sig. |
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REDandPEWTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 3792
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| 5nick5 wrote: | | BBando wrote: | Imagine if Star drops to us in the 2nd.
Banks/ Rhodes in the first
Star in the second
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I hope Star gets his condition all figured out. Maybe he could be the Jeff Green of DTs and turn out being a steal. I'd love to have the guy here in Tampa. A high-character guy who could round out the DL. |
I really feel bad for Star, but I'm greatful they found this out, as health comes first. Hopefully his visit with the cardiologist works out. |
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deuces22wild
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 5677
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8442/manti-teo
| Quote: | SI's Peter King believes Notre Dame ILB Manti Te'o will not get past the 25th pick in April's draft, and calls it "very likely" Te'o could still go in the early teens to "a team like Tampa Bay."
The Buccaneers have the 13th overall pick. King seems to be guessing, but Te'o would be a solid fit for Tampa Bay's defense as a downhill 'backer with Mason Foster moving to the strong side. The Bucs are likely to release incumbent SLB Quincy Black. WLB Lavonte David is their only locked-in starting linebacker. |
Another guy linking Te'o to Tampa.
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Soul Glo
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 2758
Location: FL
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Soul Glo wrote: | | REDandPEWTER wrote: | | Soul Glo wrote: | Dude's better than Free haha
You got like EJ for what he is, a potential QB... why are you using stats? It does not say much about a prospects. EJ is mentally way behind Free when he came out, his pocket abiltiy wasn't as good, does not have good downfield accuracy, more of a throwe than passer, tries to rocket everything, erratic.
He's huge, athletic, good kid, with arm talent but he's got work to do. He can get overwhelmed at times, needs to learn how to read defenses, carry an offense, and learn touch. He's a project for now, but don't know if I'd consider him till the 3rd unless I am comfortable with him on the bench for a little. |
I'm not sure you can say EJ is mentally far behind Freeman when he was coming out.
Freeman always had accuracy issues, mechanics, footwork, were inconsistent. Couldn't really win big games either (same issue in the pros). But physically, he had tremendous upside with a rocket arm.
I honestly, think EJ is more polished of a prospect than Josh Freeman when looking at the two as prospects coming out. EJ is more accurate, keeps his eyes down field, and is more decisive and is able to go through reads and look off defenders. |
Yes he is. I know your a Freeman basher and all, but there's a reason why Freeman was regarded as a first rounder and EJ is a day 2/3 pick. Freeman understood the defense, blitzes, more poised, made calls, and had a carry an offense at KSU when EJ never has had to carry an FSU one. It's almost ridiculous to say that EJ is not behind Freeman mentally as a prospect.
I like EJ Manuel and all but c'mon, I don't know if your watching the same kid as I am. I think he could turn out good if he is not rushed and gets placed in the right situation. |
I'm not saying we absolutely need to draft Manuel. If we don't so be it. We ride Freeman and hope he comes through.
I don't see my self as a freeman basher. Sorry tht I make the analysis not judging him as a buc homer of fan. I view his play as an outsider and I call it how I see it. My view: qbs who are that inconsistent usually become career backups. (See Jason Campbell and Byron leftwich). I hope he puts it together for the sake of the franchise. But right now all his issues are intangibles. He can chuck it down the field but consistency, reading defense, (especially zones) being able to go through reads and look off defenders, accuracy in the intermediate throws, decision making, and keeping his poise and confidence is a lot to work on especially after 4 years in the league. |
From what it looks like to me, you are judging him as a Bucs fan... fans can be harder on their team than others. From what I've seen you showed some optimism at the end of the 11-12 season, criticized him during the preseason, liked him after Carolina/NYG, called for his head the second he struggled, kept quiet during his hot streak, and then bashed him at the end of the year. From what it looks like, you'd just to be happy to have anyone but Freeman at QB. You've called just for about everyone at QB (Geno Smith, Alex Smith, A. Murray, Ryan Mallet, Glennon, Landry Jones, EJ Manuel).
You hate his consistency... call for Geno & Glennon
You hate his decision making... call for Murray
You hate his intangibles... call for Mallet
You hate his ability to make reads.... call for Manuel
You hate his poise... call for Landry Jones
You say he hasn't put together in four years... call for Alex Smith who didn't do anything till Harbaugh made him a game manager
EJ plays in big games because he beat Clemson, does he not play in big games because he played bad against Florida? Freeman had a big comeback agaisnt Oklahoma State as a freshman and beat two good Texas teams. Manuel played on a good FSU team, Freeman played on a KSU team that consistently gave up 30 & 40 plus points... I just don't see the point to be made in that. Freeman has had plenty of fourth quarter drives in his career, has competed with Atlanta/New Orleans over his career, he lead a big 8 minute drive against the playoff Vikings with a bunch of big 3rd down throws this year on TNF, but he doesn't play in big games because he struggled at the end of this season. That's not the reason why he shouldn't be getting an extension this offseason.
Now I'm not saying I'm positive Freeman will workout, but he could. & I'm not saying we should give him an extension this offseason, we should not. But what's the point in giving up on a QB who's been the most productive QB in franchise history at the age of 25 in a offseason with a awful QB market. It makes no sense. Now more competiton at QB sure? but there's not a better option this offseason. The media will continue to try to make something out of nothing, but I don't think it is hard to see where we stand... it is going to depend on what happens in the 2013 season. The biggest things with Freeman is consistency... he needs to make the easy ones, stay away from slumps in games, etc. I do think he needs to have less throws missed, have a few less interceptions, make a few more reads... but overall just consistency. As a team we have to win, last season games like the Giants, Saints, ATL, Washington, Dallas, Eagles, Rams.... are games we need to finish off. Whether it's Freeman having a better first half, the pass defense playing better, Underwood not dropping a ball, the coaches calling a better game, our defense stopping the offense on the last drive. Winning cures all, and that's what we need to. We do have areas we need to improve at, but overall we need to win games we are in..... we are not too far away. I just think think people are making it more complicated than it should be. Free's shown some real nice things, but you need to see it be put together. The Team needs to win more, but are we far away.. no. It's a bad QB market this offseason, lets let 2013 play out and decide. You gotta look at the bigger picture.... especially because in worst case scenario, there is not a worse QB market next year. Overall, lets just let 2013 playout with another year under Schiano & Sully, there is not a better option this offseason.
I know I went on a rant right there, I'm not trying to get in a Freeman debate... I know where that goes, just trying to make a point. I just think you are reaching with this EJ Manuel comment. He was not where Freeman was as a prospect coming out he's not comfortable making line calls, I don't know where you are getting this reading the defense stuff from, he's more of a thrower than passer right now, throws a bad deep ball (can be worked on though because he has the arm talent), and Free's footwork in the pocket was better coming out. Now I like EJ, but I just see him as a developmental QB prospect who should be a second rounder at best if he is in the right situation.
I just think think people are making it more complicated than it should be. Free's shown some real nice things, but there's questions too. The Team needs to win more, but are we far away.. no. It's a bad QB market this offseason, lets let 2013 play out and decide. You gotta look at the bigger picture.... especially because in worst case scenario, there is not a worse QB market next year. Overall, lets just let 2013 playout with another year under Schiano & Sully, there is not a better option this offseason.
also just a question, you said you were not a big fan of Manuel during senior bowl week.... he hasn't played any real football this offseason, what has changed? |
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DaRealdeal
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 8610
Location: Jamison. on the sig
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Schiano did an interview with NFL AM this morning.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap2000000145027/Schiano-on-Freeman-This-is-a-big-year-for-him
He talked about a bunch of things; Freeman, secondary, pass rush etc. In the interview he also mentioned that he personally spoke with Tyrann Mathieu. The Honey Badger doesn't strike me as a Schiano guy, and I know that he doesn't have many fans in here, but I do think that he could do some special things as a FS/Nickel CB/Rover/KR.
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indifference
Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1305
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “I thought Mason played really good football at times last year,” Bucs coach Greg Schiano said. “Now, there were other times when he didn’t play all that well, but that’s really on us as coaches.
“We need to get to a point as coaches where, when we see that a guy can do it and he can get the job done the way we want him to, we get him to do it all the time, because that’s our job. Now, if a guy can’t do it, that’s a different story. Then you have the wrong guy in there and you have to weather it until you can replace him.” |
Coach Schiano pretty much put the Foster to OLB idea to bed. Now with that said, we DO need versatile defenders in this league. Black is not coming back next year and the need for a LEO/SAM backer is open. Too bad Jarvis Jones and Dion Jordan will be LONG gone for us. |
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Lil' Shorty
Joined: 23 Nov 2007
Posts: 2499
Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| indifference wrote: | | Quote: | “I thought Mason played really good football at times last year,” Bucs coach Greg Schiano said. “Now, there were other times when he didn’t play all that well, but that’s really on us as coaches.
“We need to get to a point as coaches where, when we see that a guy can do it and he can get the job done the way we want him to, we get him to do it all the time, because that’s our job. Now, if a guy can’t do it, that’s a different story. Then you have the wrong guy in there and you have to weather it until you can replace him.” |
Coach Schiano pretty much put the Foster to OLB idea to bed. Now with that said, we DO need versatile defenders in this league. Black is not coming back next year and the need for a LEO/SAM backer is open. Too bad Jarvis Jones and Dion Jordan will be LONG gone for us. |
Jarvis Jones may drop due to his spinal issue. If we was at 13 and considering that condition, would you take him?
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