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BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaRealdeal wrote:
Russ Lande at it again...

Apparently, Ryan Nassib was so impressive (what is this, I don't even) during the Senior Bowl he is now the top prospect in the draft.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/NFPS-Top-200-Draft-Prospects-Version-50.html



Also had Quinton Patton ranked 14th best prospect.

Go down the list and there is a ton of names ranked higher than most have them!
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bucsEST96


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Gamble said to become a cap casualty. Dom sign him ASAP. Top5 CB right there.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsEST96 wrote:
Chris Gamble said to become a cap casualty. Dom sign him ASAP. Top5 CB right there.


The Panthers are going to have to clean house to make it under the cap. Gamble is definitely considered a cap casualty.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: UPDATED BIG BOARD Reply with quote

As I watch more and more film, analysis, and senior bowl analysis/recaps, he is my big board:

1. Luke Joeckel T Texas AM
2. Star Loutelleli DT Utah
3. Demantre Moore DE Texas AM
4. Bjoern Werner DE Florida State
5. Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
6. Chance Warmack G Alabama
7. Eric Fisher T C. Michigan
8. Cordelle Patterson WR Tennessee
9. Enzekial Ansah DE BYU
10. Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
11. Geno Smith QB West Virginia
12. Barkevious Mingo OLB LSU
13. Jonathon Hankins DT Ohio State
14. Jonathon Cooper G North Carolina
15. Zach Ertz TE Stanford
16. Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State
17. DJ Fluker T Alabama
18. Desmond Trufant CB Washington
19. Dion Jordan OLB Oregon
20. Keenan Allen WR California
21. Dee Milliner CB Alabama
22. Mike Glennon QB NC State
23. Jesse Williams DT Alabama
24. Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
25. Kasheem Greene OLB Rutgers
26. Lane Johnson T Oklahoma
27. Sharif Flord DT Florida
28. Alec Ogeltree MLB Georgia
29. Alex Okafore DE Texas
30. Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
31. Eddie Lacey RB Alabama
32. Terrance Williams WR Baylor
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: UPDATED BIG BOARD Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
As I watch more and more film, analysis, and senior bowl analysis/recaps, he is my big board:

1. Luke Joeckel T Texas AM
2. Star Loutelleli DT Utah
3. Demantre Moore DE Texas AM
4. Bjoern Werner DE Florida State
5. Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
6. Chance Warmack G Alabama
7. Eric Fisher T C. Michigan
8. Cordelle Patterson WR Tennessee
9. Enzekial Ansah DE BYU
10. Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
11. Geno Smith QB West Virginia
12. Barkevious Mingo OLB LSU
13. Jonathon Hankins DT Ohio State
14. Jonathon Cooper G North Carolina
15. Zach Ertz TE Stanford
16. Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State
17. DJ Fluker T Alabama
18. Desmond Trufant CB Washington
19. Dion Jordan OLB Oregon
20. Keenan Allen WR California
21. Dee Milliner CB Alabama
22. Mike Glennon QB NC State
23. Jesse Williams DT Alabama
24. Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
25. Kasheem Greene OLB Rutgers
26. Lane Johnson T Oklahoma
27. Sharif Flord DT Florida
28. Alec Ogeltree MLB Georgia
29. Alex Okafore DE Texas
30. Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
31. Eddie Lacey RB Alabama
32. Terrance Williams WR Baylor

few questions R&P, just curious:

-Dee Milliner was #5 on your big board and your #1 corner, what changed so much?
-what made Jarvis Jones swap from #2 to #10?
-no more Montgomery, Hopkins?
- why do you think Patterson is a top 10 prospect?
- why do you think Trufant is a top 20 prospect in this draft? I know his competitiveness impressed at the Senior Bowl, but it's not like he hasn't played a ton of football at Washington, so I mean what does the senior bowl really change? I think he's a good pick in the second, but I don't see much saying he's worth a top 20 pick.
- I know Glennon is tall with a nice arm, but why do you think he's he's a top 25 prospect? I don't think he's awful and I see the potential, I have him as my #3 QB from the draft. but besides his height and arm I'm not to impressed. Leadership needs to improve, lacks poise the second he sees pressure, inconsistent, and a guy who checks down a ton, in the college game. I see the Flacco comparison, but IMO Flacco had a better arm, more mobility (not saying much), was more ready for the NFL, more poised, and had 25+ pounds on Glennon for starters. He just comes off as a guy to me who needs to be selected into the right situation to improve. I know he had a solid showing at the senior bowl, but I don't think that says much for QBs.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo,

First to just clear things up. It's not just based on what I've seen at the Senior Bowl in what I do to rate these prospects. I'm human and cannot watch every game. The Senior Bowl is a refelction to go back and see the entire body of work. For example: Tyler Wilson. When I watched him throughout the season in 2012, saw a lot of short crossing patterns, too many and very little down field and intermediate throwing. Senior Bowl reflected what I saw during the few times I watched him during the season.

- I had Milliner #5, yes, but I bought into the hype from the final two games of his career. When you go back and read the anylsis and watch the games, I can't think of 1 top prospect WR that really challenged Milliner. He struggles in Man to Man coverage and Bama's front 7 is so good, that really didn't back pedal much. Notre Dame, he played excellent, but I can't even name a decent WR on Notre dame, to tell you the truth. I see nothing special in him and I don't see the upside in him as I do with Rhodes and Trufant.

Rhodes and Trufant are guys I think have the potential to be guys that can lock down opposing #1 guys. Are their question marks? Sure. Trufant may not have the flashy INTs this year, but he sticks with his man and his excellent recovery speed. He's got the attitude of Darrell Revis (not saying he's that caliber, but has his attitude of "You're not getting sh*t against me"). He's excelled in both man and zone, so I think he can fit any scheme. Milliner, I think is strictly a zone CB, somewhat of a poor man's Charles Tillman.

Rhodes has the highest upside. His issue is he can get too physcial at times, which can be coached and limit holding calls. I see a little Brandon Bowner/Richard Sherman in terms of play style. Something we need to match up with guys like Julio Jones/Roddy White within the division. Rhodes, for his sides, seems to have pretty fluid hips as well and pretty good speed and great athleticism. He struggles a bit in zone and is more of a press man CB, but that is something we need here in Tampa. He's already shown he can lock down NFL starting talent. He shut down Michael Floyd. I have some issues with tackling. Some times he'll go for a big hit with the shoulder instead of wrapping.

- On Cordell Patterson: He's just a heck of an athlete that has excellent speed, athleticism and very good route runner. Pretty strong as well. I have a buddy down at Tennessee and went to the Troy game, yeah I know, Troy and he balled out. From watching the Florida game, you can just see his ability to create seperation, great hands, and is just a flat out playmaker.

- With Glennon, I have him rated that high based on pure talent, mechanics, and potential, and intangibles. I see inconsistency their, but it's not yet what we're talking here with Josh Freeman. Glennon is a young kid coming fresh out of school, where Freeman has had 4 years in the league to prove himself and still hasn't yet.

Glennon reminds me a ton of Flacco. Quiet personality, cool calm and collective, but the traits are their. Watch the Florida State game leading his team back on that commanding game winning drive upset. Nothing phased him. Glennon is accurate than people give him credit for. He was working with a whole new and inexperienced WR core his senior year. A lot of drops were very well documented, from what I've seen. I like the way when the way he keeps his eyes down the field under pressure. I noticed that a few times in the Senior Bowl game as well. Steps into his throws. He's not quite the athlete Joe Flacco is (who is more athletic than many give him credit for), but I just think he can be a solid QB in the NFL, maybe better. Not ready to see the field though in 2013.

EDIT: Also, I see you mentioned Glennon's weight. For a QB, that's not really an issue. Once he hits an NFL weight room and program, he'll be 235-240 in no time. Look at his frame. He can easily do it.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo,

First to just clear things up. It's not just based on what I've seen at the Senior Bowl in what I do to rate these prospects. I'm human and cannot watch every game. The Senior Bowl is a refelction to go back and see the entire body of work. For example: Tyler Wilson. When I watched him throughout the season in 2012, saw a lot of short crossing patterns, too many and very little down field and intermediate throwing. Senior Bowl reflected what I saw during the few times I watched him during the season.

didn't mean any harm buddy, just curious.... because I know my next big board will have some changes as well and there are guys I'm unfamiliar with. I didn't mean anything by mentioning the SB bowl, was just wondering because the senior bowl is good at 2 things:
-assuring what is already known (ex Eric Fisher against the big boys)
-making us take another look at a player

just always interested in others opinions, because the draft never has a easy answer.

Quote:
- I had Milliner #5, yes, but I bought into the hype from the final two games of his career. When you go back and read the anylsis and watch the games, I can't think of 1 top prospect WR that really challenged Milliner. He struggles in Man to Man coverage and Bama's front 7 is so good, that really didn't back pedal much. Notre Dame, he played excellent, but I can't even name a decent WR on Notre dame, to tell you the truth. I see nothing special in him and I don't see the upside in him as I do with Rhodes and Trufant.

Rhodes and Trufant are guys I think have the potential to be guys that can lock down opposing #1 guys. Are their question marks? Sure. Trufant may not have the flashy INTs this year, but he sticks with his man and his excellent recovery speed. He's got the attitude of Darrell Revis (not saying he's that caliber, but has his attitude of "You're not getting sh*t against me"). He's excelled in both man and zone, so I think he can fit any scheme. Milliner, I think is strictly a zone CB, somewhat of a poor man's Charles Tillman.

Rhodes has the highest upside. His issue is he can get too physcial at times, which can be coached and limit holding calls. I see a little Brandon Bowner/Richard Sherman in terms of play style. Something we need to match up with guys like Julio Jones/Roddy White within the division. Rhodes, for his sides, seems to have pretty fluid hips as well and pretty good speed and great athleticism. He struggles a bit in zone and is more of a press man CB, but that is something we need here in Tampa. He's already shown he can lock down NFL starting talent. He shut down Michael Floyd. I have some issues with tackling. Some times he'll go for a big hit with the shoulder instead of wrapping.

Trufant is talented, good pedigree - right attitude for a corner - lots experience. Good athlete/good size ratio. Don't know if he'll ever be a #1 guy or a huge playmaker, but a starter you like and count on. His tackling doesn't impress me. I'd be a big fan if we got him in the second. But at highest, he should be a late first from my view.

Milliner I see what you are seeing, I've been up and down on him this whole draft process on him, he might take a hit on my next big board. I do not thin he's strictly a zone corner, but I think he'll fit better in a scheme with man and zone. Can get caught looking in the backfield and can get beat by quicker/shiftier guys. But real physical, good ball skills, helps in the run, instinctive. He's not a perfect prospect by any means, but he's a safe prospect and is really good at what he excels in. As with you I agree, I'm somewhat wary of any Bama prospect as they have so much talent around them.

Rhodes I would occur, if anyone is going to be a elite corner in this draft is him, has some question marks but most potential for a corner in this class.

Quote:
- On Cordell Patterson: He's just a heck of an athlete that has excellent speed, athleticism and very good route runner. Pretty strong as well. I have a buddy down at Tennessee and went to the Troy game, yeah I know, Troy and he balled out. From watching the Florida game, you can just see his ability to create seperation, great hands, and is just a flat out playmaker.

Kid is a hell of an athlete, but there are some questions. I do not see a "great route runner" one bit and he needs to catch away from his body more often. Ball skills and how he tracks the ball isn't impressive either. To be honest, it looks like he's played athlete is his whole life and is new to wide receiver. His size/open field ability is scary however and he's dangerous with the ball. I still wish I've seen him use his speed to get behind defenses on the deep ball often and he hasn't showed much as a jump ball receiver. Tons of potential, but there are some questions. His size with open field ability is something special, but nothing besides that really impresses me. Now trust me, I think he's a first round talent... but too many questions for me to be a top ten prospect. But if he gets in the right situation, watch out.

Quote:
- With Glennon, I have him rated that high based on pure talent, mechanics, and potential, and intangibles. I see inconsistency their, but it's not yet what we're talking here with Josh Freeman. Glennon is a young kid coming fresh out of school, where Freeman has had 4 years in the league to prove himself and still hasn't yet.

Glennon reminds me a ton of Flacco. Quiet personality, cool calm and collective, but the traits are their. Watch the Florida State game leading his team back on that commanding game winning drive upset. Nothing phased him. Glennon is accurate than people give him credit for. He was working with a whole new and inexperienced WR core his senior year. A lot of drops were very well documented, from what I've seen. I like the way when the way he keeps his eyes down the field under pressure. I noticed that a few times in the Senior Bowl game as well. Steps into his throws. He's not quite the athlete Joe Flacco is (who is more athletic than many give him credit for), but I just think he can be a solid QB in the NFL, maybe better. Not ready to see the field though in 2013.

EDIT: Also, I see you mentioned Glennon's weight. For a QB, that's not really an issue. Once he hits an NFL weight room and program, he'll be 235-240 in no time. Look at his frame. He can easily do it.

I'm not going to get into the whole Freeman thing or compare the two, because comparing NFL QBs and college QBs is ridiculous IMO. But if you were suggesting Glennon a better option than Freeman, I'd disagree easily... but I digress.

Florida State game was impressive, but I've seen the kid get flustered quite a bit. Has trouble doing anything once a play breaks down and I have seen games where he won't use his big arm as much as I'd like. Has shown a tendency on occasion to move at the first site of pressure, but then again I've seen him take hits as well. & I just see inconsistency in decisions/accuracy. Then again I don't think he's built any unfixable flaws yet, and if in the right situation wouldn't be a awful first round pick. For his size, it's a bigger issue then you'd think when taking hits of NFL players.... his frame needs more bulk , but he does have the frame for it.... just another thing an NFL team needs to take in account.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo,

I know it's tough to get a read when looking at text. I'm not mad or mean to come off arrogent. It just that it seemed you thought I was just basing my rankings off the sr bowl. So no worries bro. We're all bucs fans and I enjoy discussing football in this forum.

I generally, disagree with Milliner and agree with Rhodes. The more I get use to it, if a top player doesn't fall to us, I think Rhodes at 13 would be ideal. However, I just think that teams in the top 10 will reach for need and can see 4 QBs possibly going in the first 12 picks. That is where I see Sheldon Richardson falling in our laps (only top 10 team I see taking him is Tennesee,)

As for Jarvis Jones, I don't know if I see an elite player. Many make the Von Miller comparison, but I don't see it. I see a very good player but I'm not buying the hype he's elite. He gets blown out of plays and I didn't really see him stand out against Alabama, which was probably the closest opponent with quality NFL talent.
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canadabuccaneer


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.


I've always been impressed with what little I've seen of Derek Cox. How bad is his injury history?
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.


I've always been impressed with what little I've seen of Derek Cox. How bad is his injury history?


He played in 12 games this season and 6 last season.

I think there is zero chance the Jags let him walk.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If we want one of the top fa corners this year it will be between Smith, DRC or Williams.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.


I've always been impressed with what little I've seen of Derek Cox. How bad is his injury history?


He played in 12 games this season and 6 last season.

I think there is zero chance the Jags let him walk.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If we want one of the top fa corners this year it will be between Smith, DRC or Williams.


If Dom is smart, he'll stay away from Smith and DRC. Both have the mind set to command big money. Both are not going to be worth it.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.


I've always been impressed with what little I've seen of Derek Cox. How bad is his injury history?


He played in 12 games this season and 6 last season.

I think there is zero chance the Jags let him walk.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If we want one of the top fa corners this year it will be between Smith, DRC or Williams.


If Dom is smart, he'll stay away from Smith and DRC. Both have the mind set to command big money. Both are not going to be worth it.


I wonder how much interest we have in Cary Williams.

Tall, long, coming off a solid season, with deep playoff and SB experience.

I know he wants $8-10 million per. Don't think he gets the high end of that but if we are willing to shell out $7.5 per for Wright, I would think we won't hesitate to drop $8-8.5 on a corner that can play outside.

He was born and played high school ball in Florida.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
canadabuccaneer wrote:
From NFL.com on the Dolphins Sean Smith:
Quote:
Smith's camp reportedly believes the market for the cornerback is similar to the ones that drew $8-$10 million per year for Brandon Carr and Jason McCourty. It's a steep price for a player who struggled against smaller, quicker receivers while allowing more combined first downs and touchdowns than any cornerback in the NFL last season.


It's hard not to be intrigued by his size and potential but those stats and his asking price have reduced my interest in possibly signing him. I personally like Derek Cox but his injury past is a concern.


Thank you. Derek cox will be cheaper and is better than smith. Sean Smith IMO is another Eric Wright situation. Paying top dollar for an average corner. Same with DRC.


I've always been impressed with what little I've seen of Derek Cox. How bad is his injury history?


He played in 12 games this season and 6 last season.

I think there is zero chance the Jags let him walk.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=512227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If we want one of the top fa corners this year it will be between Smith, DRC or Williams.


If Dom is smart, he'll stay away from Smith and DRC. Both have the mind set to command big money. Both are not going to be worth it.


I wonder how much interest we have in Cary Williams.

Tall, long, coming off a solid season, with deep playoff and SB experience.

I know he wants $8-10 million per. Don't think he gets the high end of that but if we are willing to shell out $7.5 per for Wright, I would think we won't hesitate to drop $8-8.5 on a corner that can play outside.

He was born and played high school ball in Florida.


Keenen Lewis is a guy to keep an eye on. I know Pittsburgh has said they want to keep him, but 14 million over the cap is very very difficult to free up the cap to pay Lewis 6 mil a year. He's probably the best CB on the market, IMO.
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