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BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7907
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
I think Ronde at this point in his career is probably best suited for the slot. Is he really expected to be a starter at 38 years old? The guy is all-world and I hope he comes back but he is undersized for the safety position already and age has to catch up sooner or later. If he played the slot it would let him stay close to the line, not have to play every snap yet keep his leadership on the field and in the locker room.

Woodson while he doesn't have many years left either is 2 years younger and only a season removed from getting 7ints in 2011. Has better size at 6'1" 200lbs compared to Ronde 5'10" 185lbs.

I doubt we go after Woodson but if we did have him at fs, Barron ss, Ronde in the slot and draft 2 corners - Rhodes/Trufant.... Shocked


I'm not sure if Barber is a good fit at any CB position. I mean, watch him last year, he was very good at Safety. Having both Woodson and Barber is a pipe dream.

Also, you have to factor in the durability of a Charles Woodson. He's two years younger, but lately, he's missed a lot of time with injuries. Knee and Collarbone. Barber, two years older, still doesn't have that problem. I'd prefer Barber over Woodson.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Amerson of North Carolina would be a target in round 2. I think he'd be a beast at FS for us. 6'3 190+lbs, he's a rangy ballhawk who is aggressive and can tackle. He doesn't have the lateral movement and fluid hips to play CB at the next level, but he's got a knack for the football and as a Center Fielder, would dominate.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because Woodson and Barber both played FS doesn't mean that they both need to play that position. They can both play corner too.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
Just because Woodson and Barber both played FS doesn't mean that they both need to play that position. They can both play corner too.


With the speed and size of top WRs these days, I think both of their CB playing days are behind them to be honest.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7907
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need to focus on one thing: we shouldnt be big spenders and overpay for players on FA market. You should not build your team through Free agency and not spend big unless big name guys and game changers are available. Last offseason was rare. You had guys like Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Cortland Finnegan, and Brandon Carr, top end players that were some how just let go from their current teams. We landed 2 of those high caliber players.

This year: Is more of buyer beware. Jarius Byrd is a top end talent in my opinion, but Buffalo will franchise him.

Do I think pieces need to be added? Yes. CB is one for sure. Dline is another. But Dom has made mistakes in this department before. Derrick Ward, Michael Clayton. Michael Koenen? Then re-signing Quincy Black for that much money just to keep him?

I think/hope he learned from those mistakes, especially Eric Wright, where he caught himself a break for him being a moron. Yeah, he put the off-field incident clause in the contract to cover himself, but his play on the field didn't warrant 7.5 mil a year either.

I hope we stay away from the overpaid players:
-DRC
-Sean Smith
-Cliff Avril
-Jared Cook

Add guys that can contribute and won't break the bank. Remember, you need to continue to keep your core that you drafted and continue to draft. Mike Williams, will be due for an extension. Doug Martin, and Lavonte David in 2 years to come.

If Josh Freeman becomes the QB we all want and hope him to be, he'll cost too.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 8879
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think we need to focus on one thing: we shouldnt be big spenders and overpay for players on FA market. You should not build your team through Free agency and not spend big unless big name guys and game changers are available. Last offseason was rare. You had guys like Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Cortland Finnegan, and Brandon Carr, top end players that were some how just let go from their current teams. We landed 2 of those high caliber players.

This year: Is more of buyer beware. Jarius Byrd is a top end talent in my opinion, but Buffalo will franchise him.

Do I think pieces need to be added? Yes. CB is one for sure. Dline is another. But Dom has made mistakes in this department before. Derrick Ward, Michael Clayton. Michael Koenen? Then re-signing Quincy Black for that much money just to keep him?

I think/hope he learned from those mistakes, especially Eric Wright, where he caught himself a break for him being a moron. Yeah, he put the off-field incident clause in the contract to cover himself, but his play on the field didn't warrant 7.5 mil a year either.

I hope we stay away from the overpaid players:
-DRC
-Sean Smith
-Cliff Avril
-Jared Cook

Add guys that can contribute and won't break the bank. Remember, you need to continue to keep your core that you drafted and continue to draft. Mike Williams, will be due for an extension. Doug Martin, and Lavonte David in 2 years to come.

If Josh Freeman becomes the QB we all want and hope him to be, he'll cost too.


I understand where you are coming from and make some good points but I don't see Avril in the mix of guys you listed. Out of those 4 guys he's is the only one that produced at a high level for multiple years.

I also wouldn't be worried about Martin and David at this point. I mean they just finished their rookie year and you are already worried about signing them to their second contracts?

You and some others don't share my point of view on Mark and that's fine but if we add another 2/3 starters from this draft the time is right to add in fa. A ton depends on Freeman but we have a solid core of guys. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league. Adding a stud vet every year shouldn't be an issue.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7907
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think we need to focus on one thing: we shouldnt be big spenders and overpay for players on FA market. You should not build your team through Free agency and not spend big unless big name guys and game changers are available. Last offseason was rare. You had guys like Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Cortland Finnegan, and Brandon Carr, top end players that were some how just let go from their current teams. We landed 2 of those high caliber players.

This year: Is more of buyer beware. Jarius Byrd is a top end talent in my opinion, but Buffalo will franchise him.

Do I think pieces need to be added? Yes. CB is one for sure. Dline is another. But Dom has made mistakes in this department before. Derrick Ward, Michael Clayton. Michael Koenen? Then re-signing Quincy Black for that much money just to keep him?

I think/hope he learned from those mistakes, especially Eric Wright, where he caught himself a break for him being a moron. Yeah, he put the off-field incident clause in the contract to cover himself, but his play on the field didn't warrant 7.5 mil a year either.

I hope we stay away from the overpaid players:
-DRC
-Sean Smith
-Cliff Avril
-Jared Cook

Add guys that can contribute and won't break the bank. Remember, you need to continue to keep your core that you drafted and continue to draft. Mike Williams, will be due for an extension. Doug Martin, and Lavonte David in 2 years to come.

If Josh Freeman becomes the QB we all want and hope him to be, he'll cost too.


I understand where you are coming from and make some good points but I don't see Avril in the mix of guys you listed. Out of those 4 guys he's is the only one that produced at a high level for multiple years.

I also wouldn't be worried about Martin and David at this point. I mean they just finished their rookie year and you are already worried about signing them to their second contracts?

You and some others don't share my point of view on Mark and that's fine but if we add another 2/3 starters from this draft the time is right to add in fa. A ton depends on Freeman but we have a solid core of guys. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league. Adding a stud vet every year shouldn't be an issue.


I'm just saying: You bank all your cap into FA, then future young guys like Martin or David, their wont be money to keep these guys. You need to first things first, take care of your core guys. Right now, I'm not sure where guys like Bowers, Clayborn (3rd year) stand right now. McCoy has 2 years left on his deal. Mike Williams is probably the first guy deserving of an extension.

Josh Freeman? Who the heck knows with him. Schiano saying he wants to add competition means there is much concern in the organization about Freeman than many think. That is why there is no extension talks at all.

Avril has been good, but 10 sacks a year does not warrant 10 million per year either. I don't put him in the echelon of a top 5 DE or a game changer. He registers sacks, yes, but how does he do against top opponents? You want to pay a guy that money, he better perform his best when it matters. Consistency is key.

Give Donald Penn for example. He may have a few lapses against weaker opponents here and there, but when you line him up against a Jared Allen or Demarcus Ware, he performs. He shut down Allen through 3 1/2 qtrs before Allen got 1 play he sakced Freeman. Than didn't do much after that again.

He wins his fair share of battles against Ware, but not many LTs do. That is why Penn is a top 10 LT in this league, probably higher.
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RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4218
Location: PA
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think we need to focus on one thing: we shouldnt be big spenders and overpay for players on FA market. You should not build your team through Free agency and not spend big unless big name guys and game changers are available. Last offseason was rare. You had guys like Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Cortland Finnegan, and Brandon Carr, top end players that were some how just let go from their current teams. We landed 2 of those high caliber players.

This year: Is more of buyer beware. Jarius Byrd is a top end talent in my opinion, but Buffalo will franchise him.

Do I think pieces need to be added? Yes. CB is one for sure. Dline is another. But Dom has made mistakes in this department before. Derrick Ward, Michael Clayton. Michael Koenen? Then re-signing Quincy Black for that much money just to keep him?

I think/hope he learned from those mistakes, especially Eric Wright, where he caught himself a break for him being a moron. Yeah, he put the off-field incident clause in the contract to cover himself, but his play on the field didn't warrant 7.5 mil a year either.

I hope we stay away from the overpaid players:
-DRC
-Sean Smith
-Cliff Avril
-Jared Cook

Add guys that can contribute and won't break the bank. Remember, you need to continue to keep your core that you drafted and continue to draft. Mike Williams, will be due for an extension. Doug Martin, and Lavonte David in 2 years to come.

If Josh Freeman becomes the QB we all want and hope him to be, he'll cost too.


I understand where you are coming from and make some good points but I don't see Avril in the mix of guys you listed. Out of those 4 guys he's is the only one that produced at a high level for multiple years.

I also wouldn't be worried about Martin and David at this point. I mean they just finished their rookie year and you are already worried about signing them to their second contracts?

You and some others don't share my point of view on Mark and that's fine but if we add another 2/3 starters from this draft the time is right to add in fa. A ton depends on Freeman but we have a solid core of guys. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league. Adding a stud vet every year shouldn't be an issue.


I'm just saying: You bank all your cap into FA, then future young guys like Martin or David, their wont be money to keep these guys. You need to first things first, take care of your core guys. Right now, I'm not sure where guys like Bowers, Clayborn (3rd year) stand right now. McCoy has 2 years left on his deal. Mike Williams is probably the first guy deserving of an extension.

Josh Freeman? Who the heck knows with him. Schiano saying he wants to add competition means there is much concern in the organization about Freeman than many think. That is why there is no extension talks at all.

Avril has been good, but 10 sacks a year does not warrant 10 million per year either. I don't put him in the echelon of a top 5 DE or a game changer. He registers sacks, yes, but how does he do against top opponents? You want to pay a guy that money, he better perform his best when it matters. Consistency is key.

Give Donald Penn for example. He may have a few lapses against weaker opponents here and there, but when you line him up against a Jared Allen or Demarcus Ware, he performs. He shut down Allen through 3 1/2 qtrs before Allen got 1 play he sakced Freeman. Than didn't do much after that again.

He wins his fair share of battles against Ware, but not many LTs do. That is why Penn is a top 10 LT in this league, probably higher.


With the way the salary cap works now, they have to spend money or they lose it. Saving money makes sense before this last CBA, but not anymore.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7907
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I think we need to focus on one thing: we shouldnt be big spenders and overpay for players on FA market. You should not build your team through Free agency and not spend big unless big name guys and game changers are available. Last offseason was rare. You had guys like Vincent Jackson, Carl Nicks, Cortland Finnegan, and Brandon Carr, top end players that were some how just let go from their current teams. We landed 2 of those high caliber players.

This year: Is more of buyer beware. Jarius Byrd is a top end talent in my opinion, but Buffalo will franchise him.

Do I think pieces need to be added? Yes. CB is one for sure. Dline is another. But Dom has made mistakes in this department before. Derrick Ward, Michael Clayton. Michael Koenen? Then re-signing Quincy Black for that much money just to keep him?

I think/hope he learned from those mistakes, especially Eric Wright, where he caught himself a break for him being a moron. Yeah, he put the off-field incident clause in the contract to cover himself, but his play on the field didn't warrant 7.5 mil a year either.

I hope we stay away from the overpaid players:
-DRC
-Sean Smith
-Cliff Avril
-Jared Cook

Add guys that can contribute and won't break the bank. Remember, you need to continue to keep your core that you drafted and continue to draft. Mike Williams, will be due for an extension. Doug Martin, and Lavonte David in 2 years to come.

If Josh Freeman becomes the QB we all want and hope him to be, he'll cost too.


I understand where you are coming from and make some good points but I don't see Avril in the mix of guys you listed. Out of those 4 guys he's is the only one that produced at a high level for multiple years.

I also wouldn't be worried about Martin and David at this point. I mean they just finished their rookie year and you are already worried about signing them to their second contracts?

You and some others don't share my point of view on Mark and that's fine but if we add another 2/3 starters from this draft the time is right to add in fa. A ton depends on Freeman but we have a solid core of guys. We are still one of the youngest teams in the league. Adding a stud vet every year shouldn't be an issue.


I'm just saying: You bank all your cap into FA, then future young guys like Martin or David, their wont be money to keep these guys. You need to first things first, take care of your core guys. Right now, I'm not sure where guys like Bowers, Clayborn (3rd year) stand right now. McCoy has 2 years left on his deal. Mike Williams is probably the first guy deserving of an extension.

Josh Freeman? Who the heck knows with him. Schiano saying he wants to add competition means there is much concern in the organization about Freeman than many think. That is why there is no extension talks at all.

Avril has been good, but 10 sacks a year does not warrant 10 million per year either. I don't put him in the echelon of a top 5 DE or a game changer. He registers sacks, yes, but how does he do against top opponents? You want to pay a guy that money, he better perform his best when it matters. Consistency is key.

Give Donald Penn for example. He may have a few lapses against weaker opponents here and there, but when you line him up against a Jared Allen or Demarcus Ware, he performs. He shut down Allen through 3 1/2 qtrs before Allen got 1 play he sakced Freeman. Than didn't do much after that again.

He wins his fair share of battles against Ware, but not many LTs do. That is why Penn is a top 10 LT in this league, probably higher.


With the way the salary cap works now, they have to spend money or they lose it. Saving money makes sense before this last CBA, but not anymore.


I will give dom this credit: Like Bruce Allen, he does a good job of Managing the cap. That is the one and only good thing I liked that he came away from Allen. The way I see it: After our roster cuts, we'll be be about 41 million maybe more under the cap. I'd definately say we try to keep the following:
-T Dotson
- DE Bennett
- DT Miller
- CB Biggers


Bennett is probably going to cost, so I don't know if we keep both Miller and Bennett, unless we keep Bennett and Miller goes out on the market and realizes he won't get much more than our offer. Which I can definately see happening.
- Mike Williams extension. That will cost around 7 mil, which is good for a very good #2 WR and probably top 20 WR in the NFL.

I can then see Dom adding a couple pieces and frontloading the deals. I don't expect us to pursue a guy like Sean Smith or DRC. Command too much and simply put, they're overrated. Too inconsistent to be paid 8-10 million and both I think are in the same ball park as Eric Wright.

The CBs I can see us looking at, are Derek Cox, Keenan Lewis, and Chris Gamble. Gamble will be let go and I think we should consider him. He'd cost as much as a Carlos Rogers. Probably a 3 year 14-16 mil total. That would be a great get. Keenan Lewis will probably cost about 7 mil a year. Apparently, he's Pittsburgh's top priority to keep. However, they are reportedly 16 million over the cap right now. Not sure how that works.

Derek Cox, when healthy, is a very good CB. That will cost him in getting paid like a #1 guy, bc I think he can be. But he's missed, what, 15 games in 3 years, maybe more? That will drive the asking price down.

I can see us going after TE. Cook apparently will command a hefty salary, but I'm not sure he's worth it. Tennessee is letting him walk for a reason.

Guy that intrigues me is Dustin Keller. Very good player that won't cost much. Can get open and make plays. Mark Sanchez was his QB last year and the Jets just struggled. The years before that, he caught 81 balls and was a good safety valve.

Last but not least, I can see us either addressing a MLB or DT in FA. Foster has been solid, but seemed to tail off a bit. Still struggles in coverage and the Bucs could look to move him to SLB. I think he's a much better fit there. Larry Grant filled in nicely for Patrick Willis when he was injured.
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 2836
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read an article on PFT that Alec Ogeltree was pulled over in Arizona and cited with DUI. Again, I am at a loss for words on how these guys can be so foolish to cost themselves significant money by lacking self-control. Just stupid!
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bucsEST96


Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 2217
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cox and Cason are good cb's to sign. I pray Gamble is cut in Carolina.

Ps cliff Avril says he would like "Mario Williams" type money. (Snicker)
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8386/xavier-rhodes

Quote:
NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes is generating second-round grades from teams ahead of the Combine.
Mayock hinted that NFL teams aren't sure yet whether Rhodes will better fit at cornerback or safety. Some teams, like the Patriots, actually value safety-corner hybrids as opposed to downgrading them. "A guy like Xavier Rhodes, who's a corner and a safety," said Mayock, "... he right now has mostly second-round grades as a corner or a safety, depending on what he runs."

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Lil' Shorty


Joined: 23 Nov 2007
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Location: NC...surrounded by lame Panther fans.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8386/xavier-rhodes

Quote:
NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes is generating second-round grades from teams ahead of the Combine.
Mayock hinted that NFL teams aren't sure yet whether Rhodes will better fit at cornerback or safety. Some teams, like the Patriots, actually value safety-corner hybrids as opposed to downgrading them. "A guy like Xavier Rhodes, who's a corner and a safety," said Mayock, "... he right now has mostly second-round grades as a corner or a safety, depending on what he runs."

Yet in his first position rankings, which he put DL Dion Jordan as an OLB, he kept Rhodes at CB and has him ranked as the 2nd best guy behind Milliner.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 7907
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil' Shorty wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8386/xavier-rhodes

Quote:
NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes is generating second-round grades from teams ahead of the Combine.
Mayock hinted that NFL teams aren't sure yet whether Rhodes will better fit at cornerback or safety. Some teams, like the Patriots, actually value safety-corner hybrids as opposed to downgrading them. "A guy like Xavier Rhodes, who's a corner and a safety," said Mayock, "... he right now has mostly second-round grades as a corner or a safety, depending on what he runs."

Yet in his first position rankings, which he put DL Dion Jordan as an OLB, he kept Rhodes at CB and has him ranked as the 2nd best guy behind Milliner.


Mayock is just reporting on what scouts are saying. It's not his view. He's just reporting what team evaluators are saying.

Plus they are his initial rankings. He's still evaluating.
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BBando


Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 7564
Location: Tampa Bay
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Lil' Shorty wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8386/xavier-rhodes

Quote:
NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Florida State CB Xavier Rhodes is generating second-round grades from teams ahead of the Combine.
Mayock hinted that NFL teams aren't sure yet whether Rhodes will better fit at cornerback or safety. Some teams, like the Patriots, actually value safety-corner hybrids as opposed to downgrading them. "A guy like Xavier Rhodes, who's a corner and a safety," said Mayock, "... he right now has mostly second-round grades as a corner or a safety, depending on what he runs."

Yet in his first position rankings, which he put DL Dion Jordan as an OLB, he kept Rhodes at CB and has him ranked as the 2nd best guy behind Milliner.

Mayock is just reporting on what scouts are saying. It's not his view. He's just reporting what team evaluators are saying.

Plus they are his initial rankings. He's still evaluating.
Yeah and Jordan is a 3-4 OLB. I'm not sure what he is trying to say.
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