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BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 1395
Location: Bradenton,FL
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo wrote:
tml_gogo wrote:
bucsEST96 wrote:
If we hurry we can still get a top 10 pick and my T'eo dream still lives


Still not sure how you could possibly want him. Is he a good prospect? Sure, not that great of an athlete but certainly has potential. But how in the hell is a middle linebacker going to help our terrible quarterback situation or WORST OF ALL TIME pass defense? We need corners more than anything, or pass rushers.

If we had Manti Teo right now, we would be in the exact same place. This defense would not be any better, so why do we need him again?



truuuuuuuueeee, Teo is a good prospect and all but I don't even think he is a guaranteed stud LB in the pros, not even mentioning that linebacker is the least of our problems.


lets be honest, we dont need Teo

that being said, Teo WILL BE A STUD LINEBACKER
PLAIN AND SIMPLE

even though we dont need him, if we got him i would still be stoked.....
sry hes been my man crush since last draft Laughing
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I know many people will want to punch me in the face, but I'd say a developmental QB in the first 3 rounds needs to be looked at.

Freeman's lack of conisistancy and failure to improve footwork, accuracy, and decision making is not something you feel confident in your "franchise QB." Failure to step up in big games and missing key throws when you need to make them also makes him a question mark, and all of this after 4 years of starting in this league.

I'd say there a few guys that should be around in rounds 2 and 3. Two that have really flown under the radar and like are Aaron Murray and Ryan Nassib. From the film I've seen on Murray, he's similar to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Not Brees in the Height perspective, but he's very accurate, quick decisions, throws a very nice and accurate deep ball that can vertically stretch defenses, and has very good pocket awareness. Add on he was the most efficient QB in college football with 31 TDs to 8INTs and 65+% completion percentage playing in the toughest conference in college football, bodes well. He was also the QB that the Manning's and other Scouts were raving about in terms of Arm Strength, footwork, accuracy, and awareness. Just seemed he had it all, but his knock is his height.

TBH, I'm just gonna be honest.... that'd be the stupidest decision our FO could make. & lets just be real, that comment would have been ridiculous two weeks ago.... so has Freeman completely changed as a player in two weeks, or what? & lets not act like his decision making or footwork hasn't improved. His footwork has been ugly these past two weeks, but you can't deny that our patchwork line is finally getting exposed. His decision making? only RGIII, Brady, and Big Ben have thrown less who are full time starters. His accuracy comes and goes, and his consistency is needs to improve. BUT THE KID IS 24 YEARS OLD and very well might be the damn best QB this franchise has ever had. He's had a bunch of different coordinators, and is still learning... it'd be stupid to restart on him.

& are you really questioning Free's clutch gene? Because that is one of the farthest things away from his problems. He didn't see Jackson (which happens to all QBs all the time) and missed Williams, which was bad, but lets just be honest and say he played a good game and there were plenty other and bigger reasons we lost that game. I remember him battling with Eli and Brees and very well could have beat both but refs made some questionable calls. I remember the Carolina game, I remember him stepping up on TNF against a hot Minnesota team. Thing is he does have issues to work on, but he also has three more games left to show us something and has showed a lot of positives this season.


Problem is, this is the NFL. You cannot continue to bank on Potential for a guy who's 4 years into the league.

Does he have a clutch gene? Sure, against teams that aren't very good. But when you need him to be clutch against teams like Atlanta, Denver, Washington, Dallas, early in the year, he doesn't show up.

He went toe to toe with Brees because the Saints pass defense might be 2nd worst to Tampa's. We needed a WIN against a horrible Eagles team that just got smoked against the Bengals. Couldn't even do that and Freeman completed 40% of his passes against a team that was allowing 76% completion rate. That was his 3rd game under 50% and where he looked completely lost. Not what you want out of a 4 year starter and "franchise QB."

Honestly, I'd love for him to rub it in my face and shut me up. Because it sucks to have to start over after investing that much time into a 1st round QB. But I'm trying NOT to be a Buc Fan Homer here. He's 24 years old, but he's been in this league for 4 years now, and started every year. (10 games rookie year) then full year starter the next 3. Time's on his side, but really he has 1 year to impress the staff and front office.

I'm just saying this as a guy who has watched countless teams have franchise guys, and us not have one. & to invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a QB in a terrible QB draft would be beyond dumb. guys like Eli Manning and Big Ben , they did not put it together in a day. Eli's first 4 years are worst than Free's. QBs have adjust and it takes time to put it all together in this league.


no offense but last years draft was supposedly a horrible QB draft and just look at it now

the only good QBs supposedly in last years draft were Luck and RG3
and the latter not til the very end
Weedon, Wilson, Foles, Tannehill were all viewed as serious shaky prospects

weedon being old as heck

Wilson being short

Foles just not being all that impressive

and Tannehill being a converted wideout
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ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its only December, but I'm pretty confident at least 3 Qbs will be drafted in the first round, like every other year for the last 4 years. If Gabbert, Locker, and Ponder can go in the first 12 picks in the first round, I can certainly see a combination of this draft class going in the first round at least three of them.
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Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LazyBoyFil wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I know many people will want to punch me in the face, but I'd say a developmental QB in the first 3 rounds needs to be looked at.

Freeman's lack of conisistancy and failure to improve footwork, accuracy, and decision making is not something you feel confident in your "franchise QB." Failure to step up in big games and missing key throws when you need to make them also makes him a question mark, and all of this after 4 years of starting in this league.

I'd say there a few guys that should be around in rounds 2 and 3. Two that have really flown under the radar and like are Aaron Murray and Ryan Nassib. From the film I've seen on Murray, he's similar to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Not Brees in the Height perspective, but he's very accurate, quick decisions, throws a very nice and accurate deep ball that can vertically stretch defenses, and has very good pocket awareness. Add on he was the most efficient QB in college football with 31 TDs to 8INTs and 65+% completion percentage playing in the toughest conference in college football, bodes well. He was also the QB that the Manning's and other Scouts were raving about in terms of Arm Strength, footwork, accuracy, and awareness. Just seemed he had it all, but his knock is his height.

TBH, I'm just gonna be honest.... that'd be the stupidest decision our FO could make. & lets just be real, that comment would have been ridiculous two weeks ago.... so has Freeman completely changed as a player in two weeks, or what? & lets not act like his decision making or footwork hasn't improved. His footwork has been ugly these past two weeks, but you can't deny that our patchwork line is finally getting exposed. His decision making? only RGIII, Brady, and Big Ben have thrown less who are full time starters. His accuracy comes and goes, and his consistency is needs to improve. BUT THE KID IS 24 YEARS OLD and very well might be the damn best QB this franchise has ever had. He's had a bunch of different coordinators, and is still learning... it'd be stupid to restart on him.

& are you really questioning Free's clutch gene? Because that is one of the farthest things away from his problems. He didn't see Jackson (which happens to all QBs all the time) and missed Williams, which was bad, but lets just be honest and say he played a good game and there were plenty other and bigger reasons we lost that game. I remember him battling with Eli and Brees and very well could have beat both but refs made some questionable calls. I remember the Carolina game, I remember him stepping up on TNF against a hot Minnesota team. Thing is he does have issues to work on, but he also has three more games left to show us something and has showed a lot of positives this season.


Problem is, this is the NFL. You cannot continue to bank on Potential for a guy who's 4 years into the league.

Does he have a clutch gene? Sure, against teams that aren't very good. But when you need him to be clutch against teams like Atlanta, Denver, Washington, Dallas, early in the year, he doesn't show up.

He went toe to toe with Brees because the Saints pass defense might be 2nd worst to Tampa's. We needed a WIN against a horrible Eagles team that just got smoked against the Bengals. Couldn't even do that and Freeman completed 40% of his passes against a team that was allowing 76% completion rate. That was his 3rd game under 50% and where he looked completely lost. Not what you want out of a 4 year starter and "franchise QB."

Honestly, I'd love for him to rub it in my face and shut me up. Because it sucks to have to start over after investing that much time into a 1st round QB. But I'm trying NOT to be a Buc Fan Homer here. He's 24 years old, but he's been in this league for 4 years now, and started every year. (10 games rookie year) then full year starter the next 3. Time's on his side, but really he has 1 year to impress the staff and front office.

I'm just saying this as a guy who has watched countless teams have franchise guys, and us not have one. & to invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder on a QB in a terrible QB draft would be beyond dumb. guys like Eli Manning and Big Ben , they did not put it together in a day. Eli's first 4 years are worst than Free's. QBs have adjust and it takes time to put it all together in this league.


no offense but last years draft was supposedly a horrible QB draft and just look at it now

the only good QBs supposedly in last years draft were Luck and RG3
and the latter not til the very end
Weedon, Wilson, Foles, Tannehill were all viewed as serious shaky prospects

weedon being old as heck

Wilson being short

Foles just not being all that impressive

and Tannehill being a converted wideout

Tanehill still had ideal size, better arm talent than all but maybe two guys in this draft, and was a great athlete.
Weeden's arm talent was also way better than the majority in this draft.
Wilson was a way better prospect than Murray coming out
Foles is a top five guy in this years class

Wilson's future looks bright but lets face it he's a game manager as of now ( a good one, but still), Tanehill has shown his tools but there's still a lot more to see from him, Weeden hasn't exactly lived up to his "pro-ready" label, and Foles has shown he doesn't suck but who knows if hes a legit starter in the NFL. Point is these guys are a lot better than the majority of the guys coming out this year.

Geno Smith
Tyler Wilson
Barkley
Glennon
Murray
Nassib, Dysert, etc.

are the top guys on a lot of lists. Smith is the only one I'd legit take top 15 no questions, Wilson is a first rounder not sure where yet. Barkley scares the crap out of me. I'd take Osweiler from last year over Glennon. not sure if guys like Murray, Nassib, Dysert are starter caliber in the NFL, and some of them will be picked higher than Wilson was most likely. Point is, these guys last year who besides Wilson aren't exactly "killing it" were ranked a lot higher than the prospects this year.... so I don't really get the point.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plain and simple there is no one that we can get that is better then Free. Im not excusing his poor poor performances the last two weeks. That simply can't happen. But he has a year left, lets see how he responds this offseason and see if he can take that next step.

Stop it with the Te'o discussion. We might add a couple late round SLB prospects, but dont expect much in here for LB scouting, probably our most sure position.

The losses are getting us closer to Millner, and a higher second rounder. Only silver lining. Im flat embarrased of what showed up today. Made me sick to my stomach.

NO HEART today...that being said, lets try and keep this thread on course of scouting and prospects

I will have atleast 2 reports by the end of the week, as well as some CB rankings and DE rankings
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indifference


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have a top 10 scoring offense and the WORST pass defense in NFL history and there's talk about drafting a new QB? Laughing Laughing

Lets move on....

Anything to get a new pass defense. Fire the secondary coach+ DC, find 3 new corners, and a FS because I think Barber hangs it up after this year.

Barron really stunk it up in coverage this year but lets be real here he simply cannot be any worse. He can only go UP so with that said, I fully expect him to be a good SS. The guy can tackle and hit; just isn't the consistent player yet. Next year the speed of the game cop out goes out the window though so he needs a strong #2 season or its looking like a bust pick. And its not like he was the only player in our secondary having problems with defending the ball in the air. ALL our guys had the same issue Exclamation

Coaching is the issue here. The coverage was great against the Panthers and Cowboys games. Then we got exposed vs the Giants and went downhill from that. After that Giants game we never pressed or played aggressive at the LOS ever again. Sad but true.
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5nick5


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indifference wrote:
We have a top 10 scoring offense and the WORST pass defense in NFL history and there's talk about drafting a new QB? Laughing Laughing

Lets move on....

Anything to get a new pass defense. Fire the secondary coach+ DC, find 3 new corners, and a FS because I think Barber hangs it up after this year.

Barron really stunk it up in coverage this year but lets be real here he simply cannot be any worse. He can only go UP so with that said, I fully expect him to be a good SS. The guy can tackle and hit; just isn't the consistent player yet. Next year the speed of the game cop out goes out the window though so he needs a strong #2 season or its looking like a bust pick. And its not like he was the only player in our secondary having problems with defending the ball in the air. ALL our guys had the same issue Exclamation

Coaching is the issue here. The coverage was great against the Panthers and Cowboys games. Then we got exposed vs the Giants and went downhill from that. After that Giants game we never pressed or played aggressive at the LOS ever again. Sad but true.


Barron gets a free pass in my opinion because he's a rookie safety who's expertise isn't coverage, but he was left on an island a lot this year by our terrible secondary. Another offseason and I think he gets it together.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The draft process has barely begun, but I thought I read the CB class is deep, but not necessarily a big difference in the top rated CBs and guys available after the first two rounds.

I just see another suprise pick in the first round. Last year, it was Richardson/Claiborne. Richardson gets drafted, it has to be Claiborne. Bucs trade back, it has to be Kuechly. Bucs select Barron. I'm not sure they move, but for some reason I just don't see CB first round, later in the draft. Sign 2 vets in free agency, and see who develops between a rookie, Gaitor, and Johnson for the nickel spot.
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indifference


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
The draft process has barely begun, but I thought I read the CB class is deep, but not necessarily a big difference in the top rated CBs and guys available after the first two rounds.

I just see another suprise pick in the first round. Last year, it was Richardson/Claiborne. Richardson gets drafted, it has to be Claiborne. Bucs trade back, it has to be Kuechly. Bucs select Barron. I'm not sure they move, but for some reason I just don't see CB first round, later in the draft. Sign 2 vets in free agency, and see who develops between a rookie, Gaitor, and Johnson for the nickel spot.
I can see us going for another surprise pick. I'm thinking it'll be on the defensive line though. McCoy played too many snaps this year and is our lone pass rushing DT threat. I feel bad for the guy because Roy Miller or whoever next to McCoy are just stonewalled anytime we have to pin our ears back and make a play. I mean, the Lions took Fairley when they had Suh already coming off a 10 sack season. I can't see TB passing down a beasty DT prospect that slips. Sheldon Richardson or Johnathan Jenkins next to McCoy would be tragic. Jenkins could allow TB to run a hybrid 43/34 hybrid in some packages.

Round 2 would be perfect to find a CB to develop and round 3 go for a slot WR.
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Caaddy24


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw what happened to Mark Barron? He disappeared after week 4
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caaddy24 wrote:
Btw what happened to Mark Barron? He disappeared after week 4


speed of the game is much to fast for him still. Im not worried about it, I know he'll be just fine.

Remember that both Lynch and Barber looked like busts for their first two seasons. Give the young man some time
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BBando


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barron had one of his best games this last week.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBando wrote:
Barron had one of his best games this last week.


He played very well. Both him Gaitor and our dline.
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YoungBucs15


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious to where you would have Bradley Roby as far as your list of CB's. If he declares it seems like this might be one of the deeper drafts for CB's.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
Curious to where you would have Bradley Roby as far as your list of CB's. If he declares it seems like this might be one of the deeper drafts for CB's.


going to give a full breakdown on where all my draftable corners rank by end of the week. I have some free time tomorrow morning that I'll get that knocked out and a Jonhthan Banks and maybe Millner scouting report!
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