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BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: BSH/DRD/SG Official 2013 OFF-Season THREAD Reply with quote

Here it is guys, I really want to get heavily involved in scouting this offseason and try and hit at least 50% of the Bucs picks. We have had pretty good rate at picking players that become Bucs!

I ask that NO ONE POST UNTIL DRD, SG and ME reserve the next couple posts so that you can keep up to date on the first page THROUGHOUT the entire offseason.

Sucks starting this already with 3 games left on the season, but it's clear we aren't winning the superbowl and would need to win out and get a bunch of help to sniff the playoffs.

ANYWAYS. As always cant wait to do it, I know the guys are ready to get this on too! ENJOY!!!!
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Scouts in Attendance:
Georgia - 4 [vs Buffalo (September 1st), at Missouri (September 8th),at South Carolina (October 6th) and vs Ole Miss (November 3rd)]
California - 3 [vs Stanford (October 20th), vs Washington (November 2nd) and vs Oregon (November 10th)]
Kansas State - 3 [at West Virginia (October 20th), vs Texas Tech (October 27th) and vs Oklahoma State (November 3rd)]
Nebraska - 3 [at Ohio State (October 6th), at Northwestern (October 20th) and vs Michigan (October 27th)]
Northwestern - 3 [vs Indiana (September 29th), at Penn State (October 6th) and vs Nebraska (October 20th)]
Penn State - 3 vs Ohio (September 1st), vs Northwestern (October 6th) and PRACTICE (October 10th)]
South Carolina - 3 [vs Georgia (October 6th), at Florida (October 20th) and vs Arkansas (November 10th)]
Utah - 3 [at Utah State (September 7th), at Arizona State (September 23rd) and vs Arizona (November 17th)]
Virginia Tech - 3 [FALL CAMP, at Boston College (November 17th) and Russell Athletic Bowl vs Rutgers (December 28th)]
Arizona State - 2 [vs Utah (September 23rd) and at Colorado (October 11th)]
Boston College - 2 [at Florida State (October 13th) and vs Virginia Tech (November 17th)]
Clemson - 2 [at Florida State (September 22nd) and vs North Carolina State (November 17th)]
Florida - 2 [vs LSU (October 6th) and vs South Carolina (October 20th)]
Florida State - 2 [vs Clemson (September 22nd) and vs Boston College (October 13th)]
Louisville - 2 [vs Kentucky (September 1st) and at Pittsburgh (October 13th)]
Michigan - 2 [at Notre Dame (September 22nd) and vs Michigan (October 27th)]
Ohio State - 2 [vs Miami (Ohio) (September 1st) and vs Nebraska (October 6th)]
Ole Miss - 2 [vs Texas A&M (October 6th) and at Georgia (November 3rd)]
Oregon - 2 [at USC (November 3rd) and at California (November 10th)]
Oregon State - 2 [vs Washington State (October 6th) and at Stanford (November 10th)]
Purdue - 2 vs Eastern Kentucky (September 1st), vs Marshall (September 29th)]
Rutgers - 2 [at South Florida (September 13th) and Russell Athletic Bowl at Virginia Tech (December 28th)]
South Florida - 2 [vs Rutgers (September 13th) and at Miami (November 17th)]
Stanford - 2 [at Californa (October 20th) and vs Oregon State (November 10th)]
Washington - 2 [at California (November 2nd) and at Washington State (November 23rd)]
Washington State - 2 [at Oregon State (October 6th) and vs Washington (November 23rd)
West Virginia - 2 [vs Kansas State (October 20th) and vs Oklahoma (November 17th)]
Arizona - 1 [at Utah (November 17th)]
Arkansas - 1 [at South Carolina (November 10th)]
Baylor - 1 [vs SMU (September 1st)]
Ball State - 1 [at Toledo (November 6th)]
Boise State - 1 [at Michigan State (August 31st)]
Buffalo - 1 [at Georgia (September 1st)]
Colorado - 1[vs Arizona State (October 11th)]
Connecticut - 1 [at Western Michigan (September 22nd)]
Duke - 1 [at Georgia Tech (November 17th)]
Eastern Kentucky - 1 [at Purdue (September 1st)]
Fresno State - 1 [vs Wyoming (October 20th)]
Georgia Tech - 1 [vs Duke (November 17th)]
Illinois - 1 [at Wisconsin (October 6th)]
Indiana - 1 [at Norhtwestern (September 29th)]
Kentucky - 1 [at Louisville (September 1st)]
LSU - 1 [at Florida (October 6th)
Marshall - 1 [at Purdue (September 29th)
Miami - 1 [vs South Florida (November 17th)
Miami (Ohio) - 1 [at Ohio State (September 1st)
Michigan State - 1 [at Boise State (August 31st)]
Missouri - 1 [vs Georgia (September 8th)]
North Carolina State - 1 [at Clemson (November 17th)]
Notre Dame - 1 [vs Michigan (September 22nd)]
Ohio - 1 [at Penn State (September 1st)]
Oklahoma - 1 [at West Virginia (November 17th)]
Oklahoma State - 1 [at Kansas State (November 3rd)]
Pittsburgh - 1 [vs Louisville (October 13th)]
SMU - 1 [at Baylor (September 1st)]
TCU - 1 [vs Virginia (September 22nd)]
Texas A&M - 1 [at Ole Miss (October 6th)]
Texas Tech - 1 [at Kansas State (October 27th)]
Toledo - 1 [vs Ball State (November 6th)]
USC - 1 [vs Oregon (November 3rd)]
Utah State - 1 [vs Utah (September 7th)]
Virginia - 1 [at TCU (September 22nd)]
Western Michigan - 1 [vs Connecticut (September 22nd)]
Wisconsin - 1 [vs Illinois (October 6th)]
Wyoming - 1 [at Fresno State (October 20th)]

All-Star Games:
Brian Winters, OG/OT, Kent State
David Quessenberry, OG/OT, San Jose State
DC Jefferson, TE, Rutgers
Demontre Hurst, CB, Oklahoma
Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
Duke Williams, S, Nevada
J.C. Tretter, OG, Cornell
JJ Wilcox, S, Georgia Southern
Jordan Poyer, CB, Oregon State
Khaseem Greene, LB, Rutgers
Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma
Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
Mark Anthony, CB, California
Marquise Goodwin, WR, Texas
Michael Buchanan, DE, Illinois
Nick Moody, OLB, Florida State
Phillip Thomas, S, Fresno State
Robert Alford, CB, Southeastern Louisiana
Terrance Williams, WR, Baylor
Terry Hawthorne, CB, Illinois
Vance McDonald, TE, Rice
Will Davis, CB, Utah State
Xavier Brewer, DB, Clemson

Miscellaneous:
Isaac McKenzie, DE, Charleston Southern
Kyle Quinn, C, Arizona
Mike Davis, WR/RB, Charleston Southern
Philander Browder II, WR, Tuskegee

Combine:
Connor Vernon, WR, Duke
EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State
Manti Te'o, LB, Notre Dame
Matt Barkley, QB, USC
Ricky Wagner, OT, Wisconsin
Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri
Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State
Tyrann Mathieu, CB/FS, LSU

Pro Days:
Akron
Alabama (Chris Hubbard)
Arizona
Arkansas
California (PA)
Colorado
Cornell
Clemson
Eastern Washington
FIU
Florida
Fordham (Brendan Melanophy)
Georgia Tech
Jacksonville State (Trey Smith)
Miami
Michigan
Michigan State (Dion Sims)
Missouri Southern State
Northern Illinois
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Oregon (Kiko Alonso)
Oregon State
Penn State (Gerald Hodges)
Rutgers
University of Louisiana-Monroe
Syracuse
Texas A&M
Washington State
West Virginia
Western Michigan
Wofford
UAPB
USF

Private Visits/Workouts:
Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB, UConn
Brynn Harvey, RB, UCF
Cass Couey, P, Citadel
Christine Michael, RB, Texas A&M
Corey Lemonier, DE, Auburn
Cornelius Washington, DE, Georgia
Cory Grissom, DT, USF
Danous Estenor, OG, USF

Dee Milliner, CB, Alabama
Demetris Murray, RB, USF
Dion Jordan, DE/OLB, Oregon
DJ Fluker, RT, Alabama
George Baker, CB, USF
Jahleel Addae, SS/FS, Central Michigan
Jamie Collins, SLB, Southern Miss
Jeremy Wright, RB, Louisville
Jon Lejiste, SS, USF
Justin Bell, CB, Eastern Kentucky
Kayvon Webster, CB, USF

Le'veon Bell, RB, Michigan State
Lindsay Lamar, WR/RB, USF
Margus Hunt, DE, SMU
Mark Popek, OT, USF
Mike Catapano, DE, Princeton
Montee Ball, RB, Wisconsin
Orhian Johnson, FS/SS, Ohio State
Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech
Rashaan Melvin, CB, Northern Illinois
Robert Marve, QB, Purdue
Ryan Aplin, QB, Arkansas State
Sam Barrington, LB, USF

Sio Moore, LB, UConn
Tavon Austin, WR, West Virginia
Tyrann Mathieu, CB/FS, LSU
Vinston Painter, RT, Virginia Tech
William Campbell, DT, Michigan
William Gholston, DE, Michigan State

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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quarterback Rankings




1. Geno Smith, QB West Virginia (First Round Grade)

Draft Value: Geno is the only QB I have a first round grade in this draft and I have him ranked right outside my top ten in this draft class, I feel . I feel that in most classes he'd be a good fit between 10-20 overall, but in a draft where there is not a lot of top talent and the value of a QB, he'd be a good fit for KC, Philly, Buffalo, and the Jets. I have a hard time seeing him getting out of the top five, and without will be a doubt a top ten pick.

Breakdown: There are some questions about Geno, but I feel he has all the tools to be a franchise QB in this league. He's a real accurate guy and his accuracy is there at all parts of the field, understands touch and ball placement. Super quick release and though not an elite arm but, strong arm that makes all the throws. Seemed to be well liked and respected by all who he has played with and a hard worker. Gifted athlete, who can use his legs and throw on the run. Though he can be lazy with them at times, has good mechanics and no real flaws there. Average with progression and reads as of now, seen him go through and find his fourth option - also seen him get flustered after not finding his first option. Not bad size, but not your ideal size either. Has experience from under center, but is far more comfortable from shotgun due to his time in the Air Raid offense. Needs to improve footwork and work on maneuvering in the pocket, sometimes doesn't have the best feel of the pocket. Needs to be more willing to use his athletic ability to run. Biggest issue is that he can run hot and cold, and when playing inconsistent can get into slumps. Good kid, good talent. Have him ranked right outside my top ten and wouldn't be a bad pick at all if he is put into the right situation.

2. Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas (Round Two Grade)

Draft Value: I think he'll picked round one or round two, his stock took a bit of a hit his senior year but had a tough situation at Arkansas. He's got some flaws/tendencies about him that I'm not sure can be totally fixed, but he's a good kid and one of the more NFL ready QBs in this class.

Breakdown: The kid is tough as nails. He's a team guy and will deliver in the pocket and take hits. Well respected guy that you can count on and I don't think the learning process will be as hard with as other prospects. He is a good thrower on the run and can extend plays, has a good feel in the short passing game and is accurate there. Has good field vision. Poised football player, ready to play. He forces a lot of balls and he has over confidence in his arm, which can lead to bad decisions and turnovers. Never gives up on plays and can try to do too much at times, can play out of control and let mechanics/fundamentals breakdown. Footwork needs to improve, but I think he has the tools. He has a live arm, but I do not like his deep ball one bit. It worries me and he seems to have a trajectory issue. There's plenty to love about Wilson, but also has his fair share of flaws. His toughness can also leave him to over-sacrificing his body and lead to injuries. I think he's worth of a day two selection.

3. Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse (Day Two Grade)

Draft Value: NFL ready kid with good character and high football IQ, but has some flaws in his game that worry me in the NFL. He'll be a second round pick at worst from what I gather, don't see him getting past Buffalo's second rounder. He's a smart kid, with a high IQ and anticipates that can move around and put the zip on the ball but the way he throws down the field and some of his movement in the pocket I really worry about.

Breakdown: I see some Andy Dalton in his game. I think he's an NFL ready kid that you can count on to work hard and set a good example, quick with his release and is decisive. Smart football player and anticipates well, displaying solid field vision. He has solid accuracy in the intermediate and short stuff. Sneaky athlete who can make throws on the run and extend plays. He'll impress on the chalkboard and in interviews. His deep ball is a REAL concern for me, real poor accuracy the farther he has to throw and under throws plenty of balls. I'm not sure if it's all due to arm strength either as he throws a pretty ball with some spint on it, but on deeper routes his ball floats and is frequently off target. Polished footwork, but seems to jump around to much in the pocket and I don't love his pocket presence either. Will be overconfident in his arm and force things. I think he can start in this league if in a good situation, but if his deep ball doesn't improve he'll struggle with some throws. His fast ball is good, but his ball floats the deeper he has to pass - I think he has some mechanic questions there, him developing there will mean a lot to his game.

4. Mike Glennon, QB, NC State (Day Two Grade)

Draft Value: I think he's a day two player, there's a lot special qualities with him but some serious questions as well. A team could fall in love with his size and arm and he could day one, or they could dislike the inconsistency and his lack of athleticism and he could fall to round three. We'll see.

Breakdown: Big guy with strong arm that can make all the throws. Pocket passer that can throw with pressure in his face, doesn't live off arm strength and has solid touch. Remind me of a poorer Flacoo when he was coming out of Delaware. Footwork is inconsistent and he can get 'clumsy' with his feet at times, will throw off back foot in face of pressure. Not a bad decision maker, but too confident in his arm. If first read is not there he has a tendency to checkdown if not liking his first initial reads - quits on play too early. Unathletic and won't offer much with his feet at all. Wouldn't touch him in the first, but in the right situation can be a starter. Needs some development. Can be too passive as a leader at times.

5. EJ Manuel, QB, Florida State (Round Four Grade)

Draft Value: There's a real chance he'll get drafted high and be the second QB taken, I think it'll be a huge reach. He has a ton of athleticism and potential, but he is without a project. Do not expect him to be ready to play day one and he needs things to be kept simple at first, with how early QBs are expected to play these days and how quick the decision makers can get fired I wouldn't even consider him in the first and If I draft him day two it needs to a good fit.

Breakdown: As I said earlier, he's a developmental guy. Special physical talent, great size and can make things happen with his legs plus has nice arm talent. He can put a nice zip on the ball and really rocket it in. I don't think he's a real run first guy, but can definitely run the read option. Can extend the play and makes throws on the run. Good character kid who you expect to set an example. Struggles with reading the defense and blitzes pre snap and doesn't do a great job transitioning through reads. Still needs to work on footwork, breaks down in pressure and will throw off his back foot instead of getting rid of ball or taking sack. His deep ball accuracy is really inconsistent and his accuracy is better on middle and short routes. I'm not sure if he's a guy who can carry an offense and if I was a coach I'd move the pocket, run rollouts, run the read option to keep things easy for him. He's comfortable with his first read but his accuracy tends to break down when having to adjust, didn't have to make a ton of tough throws at FSU. I think the lower he gets picked the better as he will have more time to develop and less pressure to play early. He has the talent just raw right now.

6. Tyler Bray, QB, Tennessee (Round Four/Five)

Draft Value: Tyler Bray's stock depends on his interviews and visits as much as anyone in this draft. When you first heard of him early in his career there was talk of potential first round pick, a lot has changed. The kid has tons of potential and the size/arm strength, but there are character concerns that have to worry you. I think he has matured somewhat, but I don't know how much that means. If you are serious about drafting him you must have lengthy meetings/visits with him. He could be plucked on day two if someone falls in love with his upside, or he could slip on day three.

Breakdown: Super strong arm, good size. Can make any throw on the field, instinctive player and plays with a lot of confidence. From tape seems to have natural understanding of game, has experience in pro systems and familiar with pro concepts. Mechanics are really make and break with him, he has somewhat of a windup in his delivery but I don't have a huge issue with that, his feet can get real sloppy though. When he has to move around or under pressure his feet don't always line up with his upper body - it can really lead to if you find erratic Bray or not. I like that he added size this offseason, shows atleast some work ethic. Can force things at times and force things under pressure, inconsistent in footwork. There are some serious questions character, immature at Tennessee but if he puts in the time, there's definitely potential to work with.

7. Matt Barkley, QB, Southern Cal (4th Round Grade)

Draft Value: I think he'll be a day two pick at worst. Could be the second QB off the board, could fall... we'll have to see. NFL ready, good fundamentals will make teams love him but his lack of arm strength, shoulder injury, and lack of athleticism will make others be skeptical.

Breakdown: I want to like Barkley, I really do... but I have some frightening concerns that I don't think will change. I'm not impressed by his arm strength one bit and will struggle putting zip on certain throws and just not being able to make others. Won't extend plays outside the pocket and not that gifted with his legs. He puts good touch on the ball, knows how to maneuver within the pocket, you can count on him, has solid size, and has a high football IQ. He can read the defense pre snap, but he can make poor decisions and his ball tends to float. Southern Cal hid some of his weaknesses and Lee + Woods helped him out a lot. He may be able to succeed in the right offense in the NFL, but I don't know how much it'll matter what he has above the shoulders if he doesn't have the physical tools. & I have trouble seeing him being better than a lot of past Southern Cal QBs or Quinn/Clausen type guys.

8. Zac Dysert, QB, Miami Ohio (Round Four/Five)

Draft Value: Comes from a team where he had to put them on his back most weeks and they were very dependent on his play, has played in the QCO but a lot more experienced in shotgun. I could see a team loving his potential - as there is a lot to like - and him being a day two pick, but I could also see following to round five or six. I had trouble ranking Dysert, there are a lot of things to like but I'm not sure if he'll ever reach his potential or not. I like him early day three but tools may let him go day two if a team is confident in their interviews/visits.

Breakdown: Good sized QB with a strong arm and the athletic ability. Accuracy is inconsistent but can make all the throws and squeeze the ball in tight windows, I don't think he struggles with accuracy with the most part - but he'll be erratic and let some balls sail on him. Good fastball thrower but still learning ball placement and touch. Great pocket presence and knows how to keep the play alive with his eyes down the field, doesn't worry about pressure. Throws great on the run and can make things happen by extending plays. Struggles leaving his initial read and seems to make up his mind before the play frequently. I don't know if he understands reading defenses very well. Forces things and his knack to not give up on plays can lead to turnovers. There have been people who have had sources question his leadership and football IQ. There's a lot of talent with Dysert, but I'm unsure if he'll ever reach it.

9. Matt Scott, QB, Arizona (Day Three Grade)

Draft Value: He's an athletic kid with some liveness in his arm and I think he'll get over drafted by some team who wants to include some read option. I don't think he's a guy who is ready to contribute as a rookie and I'm just not very confident if he'll ever be much more than a backup QB. Good guy with some athletic ability and a live arm but I don't see anything that warrants more than a day three pick. Needs development but with time the talent is there to succeed.

Breakdown: Doesn't have a ton of tape out of the shotgun and seems to be more comfortable more, never played too much till his senior season. He's a good, smooth athlete but I don't think he's a freak athlete by any means or is fast enough where he'll kill you with legs or be a dynamic running threat. Puts good zip on intermediate throws and has a quick release. Tough kid who can take a hit and throw on the run. Seems to be more of a thrower than passer right now, doesn't leave his first read much and can be flustered if it's not there. Touch can be off and tries to rocket things in too much at times. Deep ball floats at times. I don't know how good he understands in footwork inside the pocket. I don't think he's ready to play in the NFL right away but with the right development he can be successful. Good kid, with quick arm and toughness, and ability in rollouts/read option. I like him, I'm just not sure if I have high enough expectations to take him before day three.

10. Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma (Day Three Grade)

Draft Value: Big kid with big arm with a solid career at Oklahoma filled with a ton experience. He has the tools and physical traits you like, I think he can be a good backup in this league. His arm and size might even convince some he can be a starter, but I'm just not convinced. He's a solid guy and I think he can be an effective backup in this league.

Breakdown: He's got the ideal size and ideal arm to play with league add that to no character concerns that I've heard and big time experience at Oklahoma, he'll get drafted. I could see some team picking him day two, but I also could see him going in the seventh - without many sure things at QB this year, who knows. He can make any throw and spins the ball, good size and he has active feet in the pocket. He can squeeze the ball into some tight spots, but a lot of ball sail on him and he can be pretty erratic in his accuracy. He's not a bad athlete and can move around a little, not a threat to run but quick enough to rollout/adjust in the pocket. His pocket presence worries me and is poor under pressure + has a hard time shaking off pass rushers by stepping into the pocket. His decision making seems to get shaky in hectic situations. His footwork fundamentals aren't bad when the pocket is clean, but he gets sloppy under pressure and does struggle to readjust. Lacks poise. Not bad field vision, but is better in quick hit throws where he is more comfortable and has to make less decisions. He throws a lot of balls into triple coverage and has overconfidence in his arm. I think he's a backup with some nice tools and developmental upside, but I just can't see him being a starter with his inconsistencies in accuracy, struggles with pressure, and questionable decision making which are hard things to change. Wouldn't be a awful pick in rounds 5-7. Day three guy.

-There's some potential in this group, but a weak class overall and many guys present a lot of risk if they are early draft picks. Not many sure things, I like Geno but even he has some questions. It really comes down to what things do you think you can develop, because there is talent in this class and they are all ranked really closely. I bet a lot teams across the league have very different ratings.

Will Wilson's issues improve behind a better offensive line or will you have to live with his flaws? Can Geno be successful in a situation like Jacksonvile? Are Nassib's down the field throwing mechanics, trajectory, and touch fixable? Bray, Dysert, Jones, Glennon have big arms but can you develop their weaknesses? Scott/EJ athletic guys but how quick do you think they'll be ready to play? Can you disguise Barkley's physical limitations? Really depends on fit and what you can teach with a lot of these guys. There's a lot of risk, but there's potential there. My write ups were not super lengthy so feel free to ask questions.


Last edited by Soul Glo on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:27 am; edited 7 times in total
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok commence the talking and discussing....

and TML you always got a place in our hearts Wink
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PewterPyrate


Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as our needs obviously most pressing is db. Most might disagree or have alternate views by going depth on the D line, I feel like if we get or DB play to average maybe a little better than average they'll make our front 7 look that much better.

Granted this may be wishing upon a start but coverage sacks are very much a possibility should we make the right moves to adjust our secondary through the draft as well as an entire off season to get coached up.

Dunno my random thought for the day
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5nick5


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PewterPyrate wrote:
As far as our needs obviously most pressing is db. Most might disagree or have alternate views by going depth on the D line, I feel like if we get or DB play to average maybe a little better than average they'll make our front 7 look that much better.

Granted this may be wishing upon a start but coverage sacks are very much a possibility should we make the right moves to adjust our secondary through the draft as well as an entire off season to get coached up.

Dunno my random thought for the day


There have been times this year where our makeshift secondary has covered pretty well, but the pass rush couldn't even breath down the QB's neck and eventually somebody ran open. I think a good pass rush would disguise our horrible secondary at least a little better. Plus, you've got to think we'll pick up somebody in FA and there's always the 2nd round. I think some of the 2nd round prospects like Logan Ryan and Jordan Poyer may be better value than guys like Banks. I really like Dion Jordan, Bjoern Werner, and Damontre Moore and think if they slide to us we need to pick them.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

5nick5 wrote:
PewterPyrate wrote:
As far as our needs obviously most pressing is db. Most might disagree or have alternate views by going depth on the D line, I feel like if we get or DB play to average maybe a little better than average they'll make our front 7 look that much better.

Granted this may be wishing upon a start but coverage sacks are very much a possibility should we make the right moves to adjust our secondary through the draft as well as an entire off season to get coached up.

Dunno my random thought for the day


There have been times this year where our makeshift secondary has covered pretty well, but the pass rush couldn't even breath down the QB's neck and eventually somebody ran open. I think a good pass rush would disguise our horrible secondary at least a little better. Plus, you've got to think we'll pick up somebody in FA and there's always the 2nd round. I think some of the 2nd round prospects like Logan Ryan and Jordan Poyer may be better value than guys like Banks. I really like Dion Jordan, Bjoern Werner, and Damontre Moore and think if they slide to us we need to pick them.


Agree on both issues. I think Secondary and Pass rush is needs 1A and 1B. They're both equally issues on our defense.

In my opinion, Everyone in the secondary is bad, including Mark Barron. He's been only good in run support, but lately, I've seen a lot of bad angles on open field tackles and missing tackles because he wants to "Hit" some body.

Overall, I'd say we DEFINATELY need to add 1 starting caliber CB in FA, maybe 2. And definately get a pass rusher, whether it's a DE or outside LB that can come in on 3rd downs. If we lose out, I'd say in this class, it'd be too early to take a DB, kind of what happened last year when we missed on Claiborne and REACHED for Mark Barron.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know many people will want to punch me in the face, but I'd say a developmental QB in the first 3 rounds needs to be looked at.

Freeman's lack of conisistancy and failure to improve footwork, accuracy, and decision making is not something you feel confident in your "franchise QB." Failure to step up in big games and missing key throws when you need to make them also makes him a question mark, and all of this after 4 years of starting in this league.

I'd say there a few guys that should be around in rounds 2 and 3. Two that have really flown under the radar and like are Aaron Murray and Ryan Nassib. From the film I've seen on Murray, he's similar to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Not Brees in the Height perspective, but he's very accurate, quick decisions, throws a very nice and accurate deep ball that can vertically stretch defenses, and has very good pocket awareness. Add on he was the most efficient QB in college football with 31 TDs to 8INTs and 65+% completion percentage playing in the toughest conference in college football, bodes well. He was also the QB that the Manning's and other Scouts were raving about in terms of Arm Strength, footwork, accuracy, and awareness. Just seemed he had it all, but his knock is his height.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
5nick5 wrote:
PewterPyrate wrote:
As far as our needs obviously most pressing is db. Most might disagree or have alternate views by going depth on the D line, I feel like if we get or DB play to average maybe a little better than average they'll make our front 7 look that much better.

Granted this may be wishing upon a start but coverage sacks are very much a possibility should we make the right moves to adjust our secondary through the draft as well as an entire off season to get coached up.

Dunno my random thought for the day


There have been times this year where our makeshift secondary has covered pretty well, but the pass rush couldn't even breath down the QB's neck and eventually somebody ran open. I think a good pass rush would disguise our horrible secondary at least a little better. Plus, you've got to think we'll pick up somebody in FA and there's always the 2nd round. I think some of the 2nd round prospects like Logan Ryan and Jordan Poyer may be better value than guys like Banks. I really like Dion Jordan, Bjoern Werner, and Damontre Moore and think if they slide to us we need to pick them.


Agree on both issues. I think Secondary and Pass rush is needs 1A and 1B. They're both equally issues on our defense.

In my opinion, Everyone in the secondary is bad, including Mark Barron. He's been only good in run support, but lately, I've seen a lot of bad angles on open field tackles and missing tackles because he wants to "Hit" some body.

Overall, I'd say we DEFINATELY need to add 1 starting caliber CB in FA, maybe 2. And definately get a pass rusher, whether it's a DE or outside LB that can come in on 3rd downs. If we lose out, I'd say in this class, it'd be too early to take a DB, kind of what happened last year when we missed on Claiborne and REACHED for Mark Barron.

a few things:
-our pass rush might need help, but we haven't played yet with all of our guys healthy yet
-I know the Eagles have a horrible offensive line, but last week we got a ton of pressure..... guess what? our secondary still got torched. pass rush is a need, but secondary completely tops it.
-R&P, IMO you are jumping on things too soon. Barron has showed some things, he obviously has jumps to make in coverage, but with experience added lets see if he can make progress in that area next year. TBH, I don't think we are using him in the right role. Claiborne hasn't had the best rookie season either. Trading down for Barron also got us Martin/David. These guys are all young players, do they have issues to improve? but they're young lets let is play out. not trying to be a -, but Remember this? First it was MW is gonna bust, Briscoe is better. Then it was Free sucks - hes one step from elite - oh wait nvm, lets replace him with Murray. Opinions can change quickly and so can player's performance, these guys are all real young so give it time to play out.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.[/

Oh no doubt. Trading down landed us two studs in David and Martin. But when you're picking top 10, you have to feel Barron was the Best Player Available. I don't think he was, to be honest. But then again, I'm not a GM. From what I've seen, Harrison Smith has been better than Barron, if you want to go that far. But if Barron busts, David and Martin at least make up for that mistake.

Quote:
-our pass rush might need help, but we haven't played yet with all of our guys healthy yet
-I know the Eagles have a horrible offensive line, but last week we got a ton of pressure..... guess what? our secondary still got torched. pass rush is a need, but secondary completely tops it.


Agreed with you on that. But what happens when we play "average lines or better"? We still need both a pass rush and secondary. Both are equally pressing needs. Look at the Jets. Have a very good secondary, even when Revis was in. But teams beat them because they';re pass rush was terrible the past 2 years. You need to have both. Yes, agreed. We haven't been fully healthy, but Clayborn is better as a run stopper than pass rusher. All I'm saying is, this CB class doesn't have a Top 10 caliber pick. If we're picking there again, we take the BPA availabe.

Quote:
- These guys are all young players, do they have issues to improve? but they're young lets let is play out. not trying to be a -, but Remember this? First it was MW is gonna bust, Briscoe is better. Then it was Free sucks - hes one step from elite - oh wait nvm, lets replace him with Murray. Opinions can change quickly and so can player's performance, these guys are all real young so give it time to play out


- Agree with you on Mike Williams. But honestly, with his track record back to college and him slacking last year, it was hard to trust he'd buy in. I'm glad he's rebounded.

-Freeman, even during his hot streak, I continued to say, needs to still improve. I said during that KC game, his "breakout performance" was bailed out by big plays from Williams and Underwood. Poorly thrown balls that would have been INT if it wasn't against Stanford Routt.

Even when people hopped on the bandwagon of "Deserves extension". I said I wouldn't because he still hasn't proved he can play against the better teams, and still to this day, hasn't. I can bet, when the stats come out for Dropped INTs, Freeman is top 5 on the list. I watch him continuously get lucky in that department.

Have I said he has the tools to be Elite? Of course. 6'6 240 cannon arm, athelticism. It's all there. But after 4 years and you still are inaccurate, poor footwork, missing open WRs, not even seeing open WRs, and staring down one side of the field waiting for 1 guy to get open, isn't exactly Elite to me.


Last edited by REDandPEWTER on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I know many people will want to punch me in the face, but I'd say a developmental QB in the first 3 rounds needs to be looked at.

Freeman's lack of conisistancy and failure to improve footwork, accuracy, and decision making is not something you feel confident in your "franchise QB." Failure to step up in big games and missing key throws when you need to make them also makes him a question mark, and all of this after 4 years of starting in this league.

I'd say there a few guys that should be around in rounds 2 and 3. Two that have really flown under the radar and like are Aaron Murray and Ryan Nassib. From the film I've seen on Murray, he's similar to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Not Brees in the Height perspective, but he's very accurate, quick decisions, throws a very nice and accurate deep ball that can vertically stretch defenses, and has very good pocket awareness. Add on he was the most efficient QB in college football with 31 TDs to 8INTs and 65+% completion percentage playing in the toughest conference in college football, bodes well. He was also the QB that the Manning's and other Scouts were raving about in terms of Arm Strength, footwork, accuracy, and awareness. Just seemed he had it all, but his knock is his height.

TBH, I'm just gonna be honest.... that'd be the stupidest decision our FO could make. & lets just be real, that comment would have been ridiculous two weeks ago.... so has Freeman completely changed as a player in two weeks, or what? & lets not act like his decision making or footwork hasn't improved. His footwork has been ugly these past two weeks, but you can't deny that our patchwork line is finally getting exposed. His decision making? only RGIII, Brady, and Big Ben have thrown less who are full time starters. His accuracy comes and goes, and his consistency is needs to improve. BUT THE KID IS 24 YEARS OLD and very well might be the damn best QB this franchise has ever had. He's had a bunch of different coordinators, and is still learning... it'd be stupid to restart on him.

& are you really questioning Free's clutch gene? Because that is one of the farthest things away from his problems. He didn't see Jackson (which happens to all QBs all the time) and missed Williams, which was bad, but lets just be honest and say he played a good game and there were plenty other and bigger reasons we lost that game. I remember him battling with Eli and Brees and very well could have beat both but refs made some questionable calls. I remember the Carolina game, I remember him stepping up on TNF against a hot Minnesota team. Thing is he does have issues to work on, but he also has three more games left to show us something and has showed a lot of positives this season.
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Soul Glo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
.[/

Oh no doubt. Trading down landed us two studs in David and Martin. But when you're picking top 10, you have to feel Barron was the Best Player Available. I don't think he was, to be honest. But then again, I'm not a GM. From what I've seen, Harrison Smith has been better than Barron, if you want to go that far. But if Barron busts, David and Martin at least make up for that mistake.

Quote:
-our pass rush might need help, but we haven't played yet with all of our guys healthy yet
-I know the Eagles have a horrible offensive line, but last week we got a ton of pressure..... guess what? our secondary still got torched. pass rush is a need, but secondary completely tops it.


Agreed with you on that. But what happens when we play "average lines or better"? We still need both a pass rush and secondary. Both are equally pressing needs. Look at the Jets. Have a very good secondary, even when Revis was in. But teams beat them because they';re pass rush was terrible the past 2 years. You need to have both. Yes, agreed. We haven't been fully healthy, but Clayborn is better as a run stopper than pass rusher. All I'm saying is, this CB class doesn't have a Top 10 caliber pick. If we're picking there again, we take the BPA availabe.

Quote:
- These guys are all young players, do they have issues to improve? but they're young lets let is play out. not trying to be a -, but Remember this? First it was MW is gonna bust, Briscoe is better. Then it was Free sucks - hes one step from elite - oh wait nvm, lets replace him with Murray. Opinions can change quickly and so can player's performance, these guys are all real young so give it time to play out


- Agree with you on Mike Williams. But honestly, with his track record back to college and him slacking last year, it was hard to trust he'd buy in. I'm glad he's rebounded.

-Freeman, even during his hot streak, I continued to say, needs to still improve. I said during that KC game, his "breakout performance" was bailed out by big plays from Williams and Underwood. Poorly thrown balls that would have been INT if it wasn't against Stanford Routt.

Even when people hopped on the bandwagon of "Deserves extension". I said I wouldn't because he still hasn't proved he can play against the better teams, and still to this day, hasn't. I can bet, when the stats come out for Dropped INTs, Freeman is top 5 on the list. I watch him continuously get lucky in that department.

Have I said he has the tools to be Elite? Of course. 6'6 240 cannon arm, athelticism. It's all there. But after 4 years and you still are inaccurate, poor footwork, missing open WRs, not even seeing open WRs, and staring down one side of the field waiting for 1 guy to get open, isn't exactly Elite to me.

Agreed on the first points, I just think Barron isn't really in the best of situations right now and needs more time.... but yeah he needs to play better, no doubt. All I'm saying is the game we got pressure, our secondary still sucked.

He's not near elite. but he's 24 and has done some really impressive things. It would be stupid IMO, to give up on that or even question it at this point, he has improvements to make but the road he's taking really reminds of Big Ben/Eli. I'll be the first to admit Free has things to work on, but there's no doubt in my mind we should continue rolling with him at QB.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soul Glo wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I know many people will want to punch me in the face, but I'd say a developmental QB in the first 3 rounds needs to be looked at.

Freeman's lack of conisistancy and failure to improve footwork, accuracy, and decision making is not something you feel confident in your "franchise QB." Failure to step up in big games and missing key throws when you need to make them also makes him a question mark, and all of this after 4 years of starting in this league.

I'd say there a few guys that should be around in rounds 2 and 3. Two that have really flown under the radar and like are Aaron Murray and Ryan Nassib. From the film I've seen on Murray, he's similar to Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Not Brees in the Height perspective, but he's very accurate, quick decisions, throws a very nice and accurate deep ball that can vertically stretch defenses, and has very good pocket awareness. Add on he was the most efficient QB in college football with 31 TDs to 8INTs and 65+% completion percentage playing in the toughest conference in college football, bodes well. He was also the QB that the Manning's and other Scouts were raving about in terms of Arm Strength, footwork, accuracy, and awareness. Just seemed he had it all, but his knock is his height.

TBH, I'm just gonna be honest.... that'd be the stupidest decision our FO could make. & lets just be real, that comment would have been ridiculous two weeks ago.... so has Freeman completely changed as a player in two weeks, or what? & lets not act like his decision making or footwork hasn't improved. His footwork has been ugly these past two weeks, but you can't deny that our patchwork line is finally getting exposed. His decision making? only RGIII, Brady, and Big Ben have thrown less who are full time starters. His accuracy comes and goes, and his consistency is needs to improve. BUT THE KID IS 24 YEARS OLD and very well might be the damn best QB this franchise has ever had. He's had a bunch of different coordinators, and is still learning... it'd be stupid to restart on him.

& are you really questioning Free's clutch gene? Because that is one of the farthest things away from his problems. He didn't see Jackson (which happens to all QBs all the time) and missed Williams, which was bad, but lets just be honest and say he played a good game and there were plenty other and bigger reasons we lost that game. I remember him battling with Eli and Brees and very well could have beat both but refs made some questionable calls. I remember the Carolina game, I remember him stepping up on TNF against a hot Minnesota team. Thing is he does have issues to work on, but he also has three more games left to show us something and has showed a lot of positives this season.


Problem is, this is the NFL. You cannot continue to bank on Potential for a guy who's 4 years into the league.

Does he have a clutch gene? Sure, against teams that aren't very good. But when you need him to be clutch against teams like Atlanta, Denver, Washington, Dallas, early in the year, he doesn't show up.

He went toe to toe with Brees because the Saints pass defense might be 2nd worst to Tampa's. We needed a WIN against a horrible Eagles team that just got smoked against the Bengals. Couldn't even do that and Freeman completed 40% of his passes against a team that was allowing 76% completion rate. That was his 3rd game under 50% and where he looked completely lost. Not what you want out of a 4 year starter and "franchise QB."

Honestly, I'd love for him to rub it in my face and shut me up. Because it sucks to have to start over after investing that much time into a 1st round QB. But I'm trying NOT to be a Buc Fan Homer here. He's 24 years old, but he's been in this league for 4 years now, and started every year. (10 games rookie year) then full year starter the next 3. Time's on his side, but really he has 1 year to impress the staff and front office.
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