Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Oak WR's could be on block ?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3907
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:


2. DHB, no matter the QB there just seems to be an issue with the guy and cohesion with his QB. Not to mention the drops will never go away and he will never be good at the deep ball. His down is directly attributable to the fact that he has not been shielded like he was last year. If he runs anything but a 5-15 yard comeback route, it's a misuse of the guy. He just really can't kill it at anything else. But he's good at that and can make 1000 yard seasons out of it. This staff went away from it and it cost DHB and the team.



Good point and that pisses me off because i've never seen that pass even close to getting intercepted, he nearly ALWAYS gets a deep cushion. If the other team blitzes all out it's like a guaranteed touchdown. How many times has he caught the comeback and then turn around and run for a TD?

He's also way better in the redzone than he gets credit for, on the rub routes and fades he's been proficient, but they just won't give him the opportunities he needs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NickButera


Moderator
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 6446
Location: Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


I agree with you. However, for what it's worth, Jerry McDonald tweeted just a couple weeks ago how DHB and Moore were both ranked about 120ish in amount of dropped balls in the league, very near the bottom. I like DHB, and has probably helped himself go up a bit these last few weeks, but overall stats say he's not doing well in the dropped balls category.

I could be wrong, or it could have been longer ago, but I vividly remember that tweet because it surprised me so much.
_________________
Bah-Weep-Granah-Weep-Nini-Bong

My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5907
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


+1

I agree with most of this. Collectively, there are not a bad WR corps, just grossly miscast in the new offense. While this young corps progressed in a simplified vertical system clearly as a group they have regressed while attempting to master the learning curve associated with site reads and running routes that don't play to their strengths and highlight their weaknesses.

Seriously, the misreads are absolutely killing this team and occur far too often. Reading into his body language, Palmer seems most frustrated with DHB whom he barely looks at anymore. When they do get the route right the WRs drop it in clutch situations. Mix this in with Palmer's occasional errant ball and you have a recipe that will lead the league in 3 and outs.

If this were to be true, that the Raiders top 3 WRs are on the trading block, I would not be surprised at all. The Raiders interviewed quite a number of WRs preceding the 2012 draft and selected Criner. Perhaps WR is on the minds of the front office in addition to being marginally high on Criner & Streater. I'll look for an expanding role by Criner over the next few weeks if there is any substance to these rumors.

There are many things that I like about DHB despite not having the most consistent hands, his run blocking is exceptional but I'm not so sure he is the smartest tool in the shed (ahem . . .being from Maryland U). DHB would be a great WR2 for a run heavy team with a strong #1.

Utimately, Knapp is to blame. This isn't 1990 football. You don't get 3 years to install "your" system. You must win now and in order to do that one must have the offensive flexibility and creativity to accentuate the strengths of the players currently on the roster. Knapp isn't stupid, just closed minded and uncreative. This is way lately the offense has been running the vertical routes and PBS it should have in the beginning. Ironically, the ONLY time I enjoy Knapp's aerial attack is late in the 2nd and 4th quarter when he is forced to be aggressive.
_________________
Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 14910
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


I agree with you. However, for what it's worth, Jerry McDonald tweeted just a couple weeks ago how DHB and Moore were both ranked about 120ish in amount of dropped balls in the league, very near the bottom. I like DHB, and has probably helped himself go up a bit these last few weeks, but overall stats say he's not doing well in the dropped balls category.

I could be wrong, or it could have been longer ago, but I vividly remember that tweet because it surprised me so much.


is that career numbers or this season?
got link?
_________________


green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5769
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A comeback route specialist is all DHB is and probably will ever be. But in the right situation there's nothing wrong with that. Because he's really hard to tackle and is absolutely great in the open field. And he does get a great cushion, which makes it work. If a guy can make 1000 yard seasons out of one set of routes, what's the shame in that?

It's when the offense tries to make a deep ball, slant, seam, or sideline receiver out of him that it goes awry. Their fault for not recognizing the player he is, not his fault.

TBH, I think this is a Dennis Allen issue and Knapp too. So far, I have to say I like Reegie McKenzie and I think on almost all issues he gets it. He really does. But then when it gets down to Knapp and Allen, they just don't get it in the same way or are really slow implementing it.

If DHB isn't in the future plans, amidst a season down the drain, they should just be feeding him the ball on those same routes. Get him like 1200 yards running the same 5 routes, and then dump when his trade value is peaked. And these are the things I think McKenzie gets and the others don't. It's not like it is foreign to the offense, because Myers does it every week with his sit down and seam routes in the middle of the field. They're his bread and butter, and DHB has his own. I think all in all the offense just hasn't made the right use of the WRs the way they have with Myers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NickButera


Moderator
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 6446
Location: Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
NickButera wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


I agree with you. However, for what it's worth, Jerry McDonald tweeted just a couple weeks ago how DHB and Moore were both ranked about 120ish in amount of dropped balls in the league, very near the bottom. I like DHB, and has probably helped himself go up a bit these last few weeks, but overall stats say he's not doing well in the dropped balls category.

I could be wrong, or it could have been longer ago, but I vividly remember that tweet because it surprised me so much.


is that career numbers or this season?
got link?


Yea, had to dig to find it. It was Vic Tafur quoting PFF. It was 2 weeks ago, and it was drop rate, not dropped balls, so there is a slight difference there that I didn't remember. More of a percentage of drops based off of catchable balls, according to PFF.

https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/276058722252517378

Quote:
Denarius Moore (w/ 8 ) ranks 162nd in drop rate (of catchable balls), per @PFF ... Heyward Bey is 144th, and Rod Streater is 161st, both w/ 5


DHB was really surprising to me, as I don't recall him dropping nearly as many balls as Moore has so far.
_________________
Bah-Weep-Granah-Weep-Nini-Bong

My short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my short-term memory is not as sharp as it used to be.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LivingLegendWFC


Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 11081
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
A comeback route specialist is all DHB is and probably will ever be. But in the right situation there's nothing wrong with that. Because he's really hard to tackle and is absolutely great in the open field. And he does get a great cushion, which makes it work. If a guy can make 1000 yard seasons out of one set of routes, what's the shame in that?

It's when the offense tries to make a deep ball, slant, seam, or sideline receiver out of him that it goes awry. Their fault for not recognizing the player he is, not his fault.

TBH, I think this is a Dennis Allen issue and Knapp too. So far, I have to say I like Reegie McKenzie and I think on almost all issues he gets it. He really does. But then when it gets down to Knapp and Allen, they just don't get it in the same way or are really slow implementing it.

If DHB isn't in the future plans, amidst a season down the drain, they should just be feeding him the ball on those same routes. Get him like 1200 yards running the same 5 routes, and then dump when his trade value is peaked. And these are the things I think McKenzie gets and the others don't. It's not like it is foreign to the offense, because Myers does it every week with his sit down and seam routes in the middle of the field. They're his bread and butter, and DHB has his own. I think all in all the offense just hasn't made the right use of the WRs the way they have with Myers.


DHB was fantastic running slant routes last year as well, and its because of the cushion he gets. DHB will never be a great receiver, by the staff has done him no favors in terms of how they used him this year. For all the stuff Hue did at the end of the year, I will say he's the best coach we have had since Gruden at playing to his guys strengths.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3907
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another interesting stat Moore has 94 targets to DHB's 65 but Moore only has 5 more catches.

DHB is playing better than Moore yet again, but he's being phased out IMO. SMH because i don't know why.

DHB has caught 57% of his targets while Moore has only caught 44% a HUGE margin.

Wtf is our OC doing? Somebody defend this.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nodisrespect


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 3907
Location: in the present
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

holyghost wrote:
A comeback route specialist is all DHB is and probably will ever be. But in the right situation there's nothing wrong with that. Because he's really hard to tackle and is absolutely great in the open field. And he does get a great cushion, which makes it work. If a guy can make 1000 yard seasons out of one set of routes, what's the shame in that?

It's when the offense tries to make a deep ball, slant, seam, or sideline receiver out of him that it goes awry. Their fault for not recognizing the player he is, not his fault.

TBH, I think this is a Dennis Allen issue and Knapp too. So far, I have to say I like Reegie McKenzie and I think on almost all issues he gets it. He really does. But then when it gets down to Knapp and Allen, they just don't get it in the same way or are really slow implementing it.

If DHB isn't in the future plans, amidst a season down the drain, they should just be feeding him the ball on those same routes. Get him like 1200 yards running the same 5 routes, and then dump when his trade value is peaked. And these are the things I think McKenzie gets and the others don't. It's not like it is foreign to the offense, because Myers does it every week with his sit down and seam routes in the middle of the field. They're his bread and butter, and DHB has his own. I think all in all the offense just hasn't made the right use of the WRs the way they have with Myers.
1+
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RunDmc23


Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 234
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oaktown wrote:
Darkness wrote:
Everyone on our team could be had for the right price. Rod Streater as well. Some writers idea doesn't deserve a thread.


Jerry Mac is credible he has been for years. If you don't like the topic don't reply. It's simple.


amen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 5769
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LivingLegendWFC wrote:
holyghost wrote:
A comeback route specialist is all DHB is and probably will ever be. But in the right situation there's nothing wrong with that. Because he's really hard to tackle and is absolutely great in the open field. And he does get a great cushion, which makes it work. If a guy can make 1000 yard seasons out of one set of routes, what's the shame in that?

It's when the offense tries to make a deep ball, slant, seam, or sideline receiver out of him that it goes awry. Their fault for not recognizing the player he is, not his fault.

TBH, I think this is a Dennis Allen issue and Knapp too. So far, I have to say I like Reegie McKenzie and I think on almost all issues he gets it. He really does. But then when it gets down to Knapp and Allen, they just don't get it in the same way or are really slow implementing it.

If DHB isn't in the future plans, amidst a season down the drain, they should just be feeding him the ball on those same routes. Get him like 1200 yards running the same 5 routes, and then dump when his trade value is peaked. And these are the things I think McKenzie gets and the others don't. It's not like it is foreign to the offense, because Myers does it every week with his sit down and seam routes in the middle of the field. They're his bread and butter, and DHB has his own. I think all in all the offense just hasn't made the right use of the WRs the way they have with Myers.


DHB was fantastic running slant routes last year as well, and its because of the cushion he gets. DHB will never be a great receiver, by the staff has done him no favors in terms of how they used him this year. For all the stuff Hue did at the end of the year, I will say he's the best coach we have had since Gruden at playing to his guys strengths.


I'm not sure he was great on slants man, but I can't remember precisely. But when a man is on him, it seems he doesn't shield or fight for the ball well enough on slants. Whether or not it's an OK route for him, I definitely wouldn't put it amongst his best.
It's more than hands too, he may just very well execute the comeback route better in terms of start and stop, charging the CB then stopping well. It's another set of skills that one WR can be worse or better at than another WR, and a fan just normally wouldn't see the difference or know it.

Whatever it is, the staff hasn't really worked him on and recognized his best routes. But more than that, they haven't focused on those routes with him and made him into the player he could be. It just seems they are intent every year on forcing him to grow into something he's not, then going away from him because he doesn't. Stupid principles.

Feed him the comebacks as if you're sending a pig to market, then sell him when he's fat on stats.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 22591
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thoughts on the subject.

I don't like any WR who can't make the catch on 3rd down.

With Moore, it could just be a sophomore slump.

DHB is just inconsistent. He drops important balls and it noticeable.

The Raiders have needed a #1 WR for years. DHB wouldn't start on a good team, that's just a fact.

I like DHB, his work ethic, etc. but he was over drafted and isn't a reliable WR the offense needs.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20544
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't mind a trading DHB to Miami or St. Louis for a 3rd. Not sure how much value Ford has now with back to back foot injury seasons. He's still a dangerous returner so I can see him staying.
_________________

SaveourSonics wrote:
Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
nbaker1933


Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 2074
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


I think people dislike DHB, because he does drop balls (it may not be more than anyone else though)

But he is such an ugly pass catcher, and I think that hinders his YAC ability.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RaiderX


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 20544
Location: Crown Town, CA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nbaker1933 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
best wrs on the team
1. dhb- people love to say he drops hella balls but stats show otherwise
2. streater- as an undrafted rookie he looks promising
3. moore- strickly a deep threat most inconsistent hands of the core, hates going across the field


I think people dislike DHB, because he does drop balls (it may not be more than anyone else though)

But he is such an ugly pass catcher, and I think that hinders his YAC ability.


That and he disappears for long periods of time during games.
_________________

SaveourSonics wrote:
Yea, RaiderX wins. We can all just top acting like this is a matter of opinion. MY GOD.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Oakland Raiders All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group