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Baltimore Ravens 2013 Free Agency Discussion
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't see Elm Street coming back. We are talking about a potential double digit sack guy who is pretty young and started for the Baltimore Ravens. Someone is paying him.

Cary Williams I see going too.


And this is where Steve needs to step up and pay him as well. If he walks, the only pass rusher we have left is Sizzle, and he's quickly going out of his prime with nobody left to replace him.

Kindle is a pure bust at this point and Upshaw is a run stopper. Who knows what we're going to get from McPhee as well.


Upshaw is going to be a really nice pass rusher. Give him a minute. I like Kruger but I don't want to overpay him out of desperation.

We are going to have opportunities to draft some good pass rushers this year as well. Deep class and I see a couple/few overrated ones going off the board before we are on the clock.


Upshaw a pass rusher? When? He's always been a run-stopper.

What I'm saying is why would we want to waste draft picks when we already have a pass rusher in place? Unless we want to give up draft picks to REALLY get an elite pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Bruve Irvin in the middle of the first round.


Upshaw was a beastly pass rusher at Bama.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't see Elm Street coming back. We are talking about a potential double digit sack guy who is pretty young and started for the Baltimore Ravens. Someone is paying him.

Cary Williams I see going too.


And this is where Steve needs to step up and pay him as well. If he walks, the only pass rusher we have left is Sizzle, and he's quickly going out of his prime with nobody left to replace him.

Kindle is a pure bust at this point and Upshaw is a run stopper. Who knows what we're going to get from McPhee as well.


Upshaw is going to be a really nice pass rusher. Give him a minute. I like Kruger but I don't want to overpay him out of desperation.

We are going to have opportunities to draft some good pass rushers this year as well. Deep class and I see a couple/few overrated ones going off the board before we are on the clock.


Upshaw a pass rusher? When? He's always been a run-stopper.

What I'm saying is why would we want to waste draft picks when we already have a pass rusher in place? Unless we want to give up draft picks to REALLY get an elite pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Bruve Irvin in the middle of the first round.


Upshaw was a beastly pass rusher at Bama.


I'm not really familiar with college football, but is 8.5 sacks a good season? He never got over that mark in his college career...
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DontTazeMeBro


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't see Elm Street coming back. We are talking about a potential double digit sack guy who is pretty young and started for the Baltimore Ravens. Someone is paying him.

Cary Williams I see going too.


And this is where Steve needs to step up and pay him as well. If he walks, the only pass rusher we have left is Sizzle, and he's quickly going out of his prime with nobody left to replace him.

Kindle is a pure bust at this point and Upshaw is a run stopper. Who knows what we're going to get from McPhee as well.


Upshaw is going to be a really nice pass rusher. Give him a minute. I like Kruger but I don't want to overpay him out of desperation.

We are going to have opportunities to draft some good pass rushers this year as well. Deep class and I see a couple/few overrated ones going off the board before we are on the clock.


Upshaw a pass rusher? When? He's always been a run-stopper.

What I'm saying is why would we want to waste draft picks when we already have a pass rusher in place? Unless we want to give up draft picks to REALLY get an elite pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Bruve Irvin in the middle of the first round.


Upshaw was a beastly pass rusher at Bama.


I'm not really familiar with college football, but is 8.5 sacks a good season? He never got over that mark in his college career...


9.5. And his Senior and Junior years were the most sacks anyone has had at Bama since 07 in Saban's first year there. It's just not that type of defense. And yes. 9.5 is very good. Put him at 11th in the nation. And it was 1.5 more than Bruce Irvin had last year.

But getting past the numbers. Of the pass rushers in last years draft Upshaw was the strongest, most relentless, and used his hands the best.
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1/10. Not a fan[of C.J. Mosley]. Just another future failed Alabama product.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
coordinator0 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
I don't think we can afford to let Paul Kruger walk. This team is already thin as nails on pass rushers so letting him walk would be ANOTHER mistake that the front office has made in terms of letting pass rushers hit the market.

I'm fine with Williams hitting the market, because some team is going to over pay for him, but I think we should retain Ellerbe at this point (quite the contrast from what I was saying when we gave him the contract at the start of this year), but at least Ellerbe seems to be coming on, whereas McClain is stuck being a below-average ILB.


Huh? Who are you referring to here?


Cory Redding and Antwaan Barnes are the most recent ones I can remember. Heck, even JJ leaving, as much as he wasn't a pass rusher he at least gave us consistency, so that we could keep our other guys fresh.


Cory Redding wasn't a pass rusher, he was much better against the run. As well, all off-season we all (I believe you included) were touting how our pass rush should be better with McPhee stepping in full time and acknowleding that our run defense may suffer because of it (it did).

Barnes was nothing more than a situational guy who was unimpressive. Just because he turned into something a bit more in San Diego doesn't mean that it was a mistake to let him walk at the time.

JJ wanted money that we couldn't afford so we let him walk -- that's not a mistake by the front office, that's following the mantra "right player, right price". You have to allow things like that to happen if you want to stay productive over the long haul.

None of those were mistakes by any means, and personally while I'd like to keep Kruger, I don't think it'd be a huge mistake letting him walk either depending on the type of money he wants/gets.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't see Elm Street coming back. We are talking about a potential double digit sack guy who is pretty young and started for the Baltimore Ravens. Someone is paying him.

Cary Williams I see going too.


And this is where Steve needs to step up and pay him as well. If he walks, the only pass rusher we have left is Sizzle, and he's quickly going out of his prime with nobody left to replace him.

Kindle is a pure bust at this point and Upshaw is a run stopper. Who knows what we're going to get from McPhee as well.


So let's say he gets an offer somewhere paying him $6-7M a year -- you think the Ravens would be smart to pay a similar price?
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Baltimore Ravens 2013 Free Agency Discussion Reply with quote

UFA:

Billy Bajema - no
Ricky Brown - no
Omar Brown - maybe
Nigel Carr - no
Sean Considine - no
Jack Cornell - no
Dennis Dixon - no
Dannell Ellerbe - yes, depending on how much he commands. if we can get him back relatively cheap then im for it. he's played well this year.
Joe Flacco - obviously i want him back and he will be back, we just gotta see for how much money.
Adrian Hamilton - no
James Ihedigbo - yes if cheap
Chris Johnson - no
Maíake Kemoeatu - no
Sergio Kindle - no but he's an interesting case
Paul Kruger - i want him back. if some team comes out and gives up the farm for kruger, then we'll probably let him go. he's gonna be somewhat costly regardless, but i'd be really upset if we couldn't get him back - i think he's on the verge of being a pretty special player.
Ryan McBean - yes, again if cheap. i was excited to see how he'd do for us this year, i thought he was a good pickup. shame he got hurt.
Antoine McClain - no
Bryant McKinnie - pretty much a forgone conclusion that he's gone.
Ed Reed - yes obviously, it'll be up to Ed what he does though.
Alex Silvestro - no
Cary Williams - no, we all know someone will overpay him. i think he's definitely a goner. hopefully jimmy smith steps up next year.

RFA:

Emmanuel Cook - yes
Morgan Cox - yes
Ed Dickson - yes
Ramon Harewood - yes
Arthur Jones - yes
Dennis Pitta - yes
David Reed - no

EFA:

Anthony Allen - yes
Damien Berry - no
Josh Bynes - no
Bryan Hall - yes
Anthony Levine - yes
Albert McClellan - yes
Bobby Rainey - yes
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it won't happen but how much space could we clear if we trade Oher?
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SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
1/10. Not a fan[of C.J. Mosley]. Just another future failed Alabama product.
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drd23


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I know it won't happen but how much space could we clear if we trade Oher?

Not much. Probably about $1.7m if http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/michael-oher/ is to be believed
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:

Upshaw is going to be a really nice pass rusher. Give him a minute. I like Kruger but I don't want to overpay him out of desperation.

We are going to have opportunities to draft some good pass rushers this year as well. Deep class and I see a couple/few overrated ones going off the board before we are on the clock.


Upshaw a pass rusher? When? He's always been a run-stopper.

What I'm saying is why would we want to waste draft picks when we already have a pass rusher in place? Unless we want to give up draft picks to REALLY get an elite pass rusher like Aldon Smith or Bruve Irvin in the middle of the first round.


Upshaw was a beastly pass rusher at Bama.


I'm not really familiar with college football, but is 8.5 sacks a good season? He never got over that mark in his college career...


9.5. And his Senior and Junior years were the most sacks anyone has had at Bama since 07 in Saban's first year there. It's just not that type of defense. And yes. 9.5 is very good. Put him at 11th in the nation. And it was 1.5 more than Bruce Irvin had last year.

But getting past the numbers. Of the pass rushers in last years draft Upshaw was the strongest, most relentless, and used his hands the best.

Agreed. Upshaw is already far ahead of where Kruger was to this point. Honestly, Monachino has yet again done a fantastic job with our LBers. I mean, how underrated is this guy to this point. Our linebackers have clearly been our most consistent unit all season and they've been right there with our other units in terms of impact... yet of the three units they have the worse talent.

Anyways, Kruger looks good, but he doesn't truly have any elite pass rushing trait that I feel like makes him a NEED for us to keep. He's going to get a nice contract and probably be overpaid elsewhere. And without Monachino- it wouldn't surprise me if his production slips.

Whereas I think Upshaw is coming along. He only has two sacks this season, but he's had a couple of instances where he was a part of a gang tackle sack that he didn't get credit for... notably this past game where Kruger/Jones got the credit in the stat sheet. Upshaw, once he gets his weight to a comfortable level and he completely understands the playbook can really start to focus on the technique side of being a pro and really start to excel. Kruger has no physical trait within him that Upshaw doesn't possess... only Upshaw is a much more violent player. I mean just look, Upshaw has only 2 sacks, but he also has two FFs. Kruger has 8 sacks, but only 1 FF.

More than that, I agree about the point where this draft will have pass rushers available. I think that's a much better bet. We can address the loss of Kruger by taking a pass rusher that actually possesses an elite pass rushing trait. Upshaw has elite strength & violence to his game. Suggs is Suggs. We can use an elite explosive athlete to our pass rushing core, so we won't have so much redundancy in speed when throwing out pass rushers to combat an offensive line.

In this draft we should have a shot at a Dion Jordan and Mike Buchanan- each having elite explosive ability. I salivate at the thought of what Monachino could do with such an explosive pass rusher with length... he could probably turn a player like that into a VERY good, if not elite, pass rusher. And that's what this defense is most lacking. In Jordan's case, he's also pretty firm against the run for his size and with his coverage ability, we'd replace and upgrade anything Kruger gave to this defense... and we'd pay significantly less for it over the next four years.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drd23 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I know it won't happen but how much space could we clear if we trade Oher?

Not much. Probably about $1.7m if http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/michael-oher/ is to be believed


The first link in the first post has Oher's base salary at $3,085,000 for next season as does Rotoworld. From my experience spotrac is hit and miss. Not that it makes much of a difference in this case, Oher isn't going anywhere.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://russellstreetreport.com/ravens-salary-cap-tagging-flacco-could-mean-goodbye-for-some/

Quote:
If the Ravens intend to, or are forced to, use the Franchise Tag on QB Joe Flacco, they are going to need to create a substantial amount of Salary Cap space and itís likely going to have to come from the players on the following chart. The 2013 Franchise Tag for Quarterbacks has been estimated to be in the $14-15M range.

The team could also decide to restructure a contract or two. Likely candidates for restructures would be Guard Marshall Yanda, Linebacker Terrell Suggs and Defensive Tackle Haloti Ngata.




Just a little helpful chart for the guys most likely to be released or retire. I still feel like Suggs is very unlikely to be a candidate for a simple restructure though since it would almost double his cap figure for the 2014 season (last year of his deal). Yanda just had his deal restructured in May so I'm not sure how likely it would be to happen in consecutive years. I think Ngata is the most likely candidate.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
http://russellstreetreport.com/ravens-salary-cap-tagging-flacco-could-mean-goodbye-for-some/

Quote:
If the Ravens intend to, or are forced to, use the Franchise Tag on QB Joe Flacco, they are going to need to create a substantial amount of Salary Cap space and itís likely going to have to come from the players on the following chart. The 2013 Franchise Tag for Quarterbacks has been estimated to be in the $14-15M range.

The team could also decide to restructure a contract or two. Likely candidates for restructures would be Guard Marshall Yanda, Linebacker Terrell Suggs and Defensive Tackle Haloti Ngata.




Just a little helpful chart for the guys most likely to be released or retire. I still feel like Suggs is very unlikely to be a candidate for a simple restructure though since it would almost double his cap figure for the 2014 season (last year of his deal). Yanda just had his deal restructured in May so I'm not sure how likely it would be to happen in consecutive years. I think Ngata is the most likely candidate.


I think cutting Bobbie Williams and reworking Q into an extension are two obvious moves IMO.
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't imagine when they drew up that contract they had any intention of paying Jacoby Jones 4 million. I think that'll get reworked.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll surely cut Williams, and McKinnie is going to be gone as well. If Gradkowski is capable of starting (or even if he's not), Matt Birk should be gone.

If the Ravens draft at ILB, I wonder if they might look at trading McClain, who really isn't justifying the contract he got. I'd much rather have Ellerbe on the field than him.

I think the Ravens originally intended to let go of both Boldin and Jones at the end of this season, but they've both impressed too much for it to be such a simple decision. Plus, no other guys have really stepped up to stake a claim for their spots.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still have no idea why we are paying Vonta Leach that much money when we rarely use the running game any more.

We might as well, under our new OC next year, just release Leach and sign some unknown FB/H-Back to run the position for us so we can save extra cap space.
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