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Cardinals place Kolb on IR; QB likely headed to free agency
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My whole point was that he called it "trade raped".. Which I thought was a bit of an exaggeration. The Eagles won the trade, IMO, but it wasnt some enormous trade that changed the direction of the eagles.
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sign back Lord Kolb
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

headed to free agency, and will stay there
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok can someone who is a capologist explain to me how they can simply just cut the guy if they owe him over $11 million dollars???
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better not land in Buffalo. As for trade, Eagles won it DRC has been the best player and Boyken/Curry still have upside
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GoneWithTheWind


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd take him on the Vikes and plug him in if Ponder continues to poop the bed next year.
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Gmen4ev


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GoneWithTheWind wrote:
I'd take him on the Vikes and plug him in if Ponder continues to poop the bed next year.


Kolb would look good in a vikings jersey ... I could see him doing well for you guys
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaguarfan wrote:
Gmen4ev wrote:
Didnt Kolb go 4-0 with the cards ... got hurt and then they started this 0-7 losing streak?

I dont know who they plan on taking in the draft that they think can be a solid franchise qb.

They can trade up to number two and get Tyler Wilson.
Please, do it Cards.


Not sure if the Eagles make #2 but I'm sure something can be worked out with the #3 or #4 pick if their interested. Cool
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SwiftTexan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
Ok can someone who is a capologist explain to me how they can simply just cut the guy if they owe him over $11 million dollars???


Let me see if I can clear this up for you.
Kolb's Contract was a 6 year 63 Million Dollar deal.
2011: Due 12 million (10 guaranteed and 2 million base)
2012: Due 8 million (7 Million guaranteed bonus and 1 million base)
2013: Due 11 Million (2 Million bonus and 9 million base)
2014-2016: 10 million base

The base salary is not guaranteed - it is paid out each year. Just like your paycheque is your base salary and you are paid 1000$ each weeek. If I told you that in 2013 your base salary would be 2000$ each week but I fired you before 2013, you would never see your paychque increase despite the agreement in our contract (I'm a jerk of a boss - cry about it).

The bonus is paid out and so the Cardinals have already paid Kolb 17 million dollars is bonuses. Most teams spread out this number across the length of a contract to allow them cap flexibility every year to sign players. I couldn't find the info on those specifics but it's likely they'll be paying out portions of the 11 million each year until 2016. That means that each year they'll have 2.83 million less in their cap available. That's assuming it's spread out evenly but, as I said, I don't have the specifics.

So his 9 million dollar salary in 2013 wouldn't be owed to him because he's not going to be employed. I believe that the 2 million dollar bonus is contingent on him being with the team so they can cut him by March and thereby saving themselves 2 million dollars. That's going to in the fine print of his contract. He earns a 2 million dollar bonus if he's still on the team by 2013. It might also be contingent on playing time and stuff like that but who knows - most of them are pretty straightfoward.

PS - If you add up the totals you'll notice it does not add up to 63. He has some workout bonuses in his contract as well which make up the difference. Those would be similar to bonuses which would only be earned in the years in which he qualified and the Cardinals would not have to pay him any bonuses in the future.

You'll see a lot of contracts built like this. Heavy bonuses up front but low salaries. The large salary at the end of the contract means that if the player has performed then he has earned that salary. If he has underperformed then the team can cut him with no penalty other than the pro-rated bonuses coming off the cap each year.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
BBIB wrote:
Ok can someone who is a capologist explain to me how they can simply just cut the guy if they owe him over $11 million dollars???


Let me see if I can clear this up for you.
Kolb's Contract was a 6 year 63 Million Dollar deal.
2011: Due 12 million (10 guaranteed and 2 million base)
2012: Due 8 million (7 Million guaranteed bonus and 1 million base)
2013: Due 11 Million (2 Million bonus and 9 million base)
2014-2016: 10 million base

The base salary is not guaranteed - it is paid out each year. Just like your paycheque is your base salary and you are paid 1000$ each weeek. If I told you that in 2013 your base salary would be 2000$ each week but I fired you before 2013, you would never see your paychque increase despite the agreement in our contract (I'm a jerk of a boss - cry about it).

The bonus is paid out and so the Cardinals have already paid Kolb 17 million dollars is bonuses. Most teams spread out this number across the length of a contract to allow them cap flexibility every year to sign players. I couldn't find the info on those specifics but it's likely they'll be paying out portions of the 11 million each year until 2016. That means that each year they'll have 2.83 million less in their cap available. That's assuming it's spread out evenly but, as I said, I don't have the specifics.

So his 9 million dollar salary in 2013 wouldn't be owed to him because he's not going to be employed. I believe that the 2 million dollar bonus is contingent on him being with the team so they can cut him by March and thereby saving themselves 2 million dollars. That's going to in the fine print of his contract. He earns a 2 million dollar bonus if he's still on the team by 2013. It might also be contingent on playing time and stuff like that but who knows - most of them are pretty straightfoward.

PS - If you add up the totals you'll notice it does not add up to 63. He has some workout bonuses in his contract as well which make up the difference. Those would be similar to bonuses which would only be earned in the years in which he qualified and the Cardinals would not have to pay him any bonuses in the future.

You'll see a lot of contracts built like this. Heavy bonuses up front but low salaries. The large salary at the end of the contract means that if the player has performed then he has earned that salary. If he has underperformed then the team can cut him with no penalty other than the pro-rated bonuses coming off the cap each year.


Wow thanks for clearing that up!

With that in mind I don't see how he could come back next year especially if they have a new head coach.
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ I've only taken a quick look at the salary, but I think SwiftTexan's numbers are wrong. I haven't seen anything as comprehensive regarding the Cardinals overall as can be found on the Redskins, so if anyone can pass that long that would be great. (note: sportscity is useless, I used spotrac.com)

Kolb received a 6 year/$63.5 million deal
-- $10 million SB ($2 million/year)
-- $7 million OB in 2012
-- $2 million OB in 2013 (roster bonus)
-- 2012-1016 annual $500k workout bonus
-- 2012-2016 $1.4 million OB/year (I would like specifics if anyone has them)
-- 2016 voidable

Therefore, if the Cardinals cut Kolb prior to his 2013 roster bonus, they will be on the hook for the remainder of his signing bonus that was previously prorated ($6MM). They can defer $4MM of the $6MM to the following year by making him a June 1st cut if they want to get rid of him this off-season and need the cap room (doubt it). However, it is entirely plausible they keep him for one more season while they search for a replacement.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footy_29 wrote:
^^ I've only taken a quick look at the salary, but I think SwiftTexan's numbers are wrong. I haven't seen anything as comprehensive regarding the Cardinals overall as can be found on the Redskins, so if anyone can pass that long that would be great. (note: sportscity is useless, I used spotrac.com)

Kolb received a 6 year/$63.5 million deal
-- $10 million SB ($2 million/year)
-- $7 million OB in 2012
-- $2 million OB in 2013 (roster bonus)
-- 2012-1016 annual $500k workout bonus
-- 2012-2016 $1.4 million OB/year (I would like information about this part)
-- 2016 voidable

Therefore, if the Cardinals cut Kolb prior to his 2013 roster bonus, they will be on the hook for the remainder of his signing bonus that was previously prorated ($6MM). No idea if those other bonuses factor in to his release number ($5.8MM) as I have no idea what they are and haven't found anything (quick search mind you).

Assuming it's only his 6MM prorated SB as guaranteed, they can defer $4MM of the $6MM to the following year by making him a June 1st cut if they want to get rid of him this off-season. However, it is entirely plausible they keep him for one more season while they search for a replacement.


Just found this article by Jason La Canfora

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/21346344/monday-observations-plenty-of-qbs-should-rent-not-buy

Quote:
Arizona, Kevin Kolb: $9M base salary, $2M roster bonus due the fifth day of the league year (Cards also likely to let go of John Skelton, who lost his job to rookie Ryan Lindley). Kolb has barely played in his two years there because of injury. The Cardinals tried to upgrade from him a year ago, and after having already paid him $20 million it's hard to imagine another $9 million investment. That won't be happening. Could Kolb end up as a backup candidate wherever Reid does? Guess I wouldn't be shocked. He will be staring at a prove-it contract no matter where he lands.


So it sounds like it's OPTIONAL whether or not they pay him that $9 million. And it that's the case I definitely don't see him being on the team next year


Mark Sanchez on the other hand apparently somehow they are on the hook for his base salary next year.

[qoute]New York, Mark Sanchez : Even if there is a regime change with the Jets in 2013, you would expect them to want to Mark Sanchez out, but with Sanchez guaranteed $8.25 million next season, with no offset, and with that entire sum being due within 30 days of him being released, that would be a lot for owner Woody Johnson to cough up just to get someone off the roster. [/quote]
So Im not sure I totally understand how it works sine there seems to be exceptions to when teams are and aren't on the hook for that base salary

[/quote]
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bkobow05


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't expect any QB to succeed behind that OL. IIRC, D'Anthony Batiste and Bobby Massie were his tackles when he started in 2012. I believe that it was Batiste and Bridges the last few seasons too. Correct me if I'm wrong Cards fans.

Skelton doesn't have it much better with Nate Potter and Massie though. Laughing
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footy_29


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBIB wrote:
footy_29 wrote:
^^ I've only taken a quick look at the salary, but I think SwiftTexan's numbers are wrong. I haven't seen anything as comprehensive regarding the Cardinals overall as can be found on the Redskins, so if anyone can pass that long that would be great. (note: sportscity is useless, I used spotrac.com)

Kolb received a 6 year/$63.5 million deal
-- $10 million SB ($2 million/year)
-- $7 million OB in 2012
-- $2 million OB in 2013 (roster bonus)
-- 2012-1016 annual $500k workout bonus
-- 2012-2016 $1.4 million OB/year (I would like information about this part)
-- 2016 voidable

Therefore, if the Cardinals cut Kolb prior to his 2013 roster bonus, they will be on the hook for the remainder of his signing bonus that was previously prorated ($6MM). No idea if those other bonuses factor in to his release number ($5.8MM) as I have no idea what they are and haven't found anything (quick search mind you).

Assuming it's only his 6MM prorated SB as guaranteed, they can defer $4MM of the $6MM to the following year by making him a June 1st cut if they want to get rid of him this off-season. However, it is entirely plausible they keep him for one more season while they search for a replacement.


So it sounds like it's OPTIONAL whether or not they pay him that $9 million. And it that's the case I definitely don't see him being on the team next year.
[/quote]

Of course his base salary is not guaranteed, neither is the roster bonus. It's his remaining signing bonus will count against the cap ($6MM) - I'm just repeating myself.

They will likely cut ties, but it doesn't look like the Cards are going to get their QB this year unless they want to sacrifice a couple of first rounders to move up. Unless they target Fitz or C.Palmer, it will be tough to see them being able to land a new QB.
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SwiftTexan


Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my figures from Rotoworld

The short answer is that any bonuses he's already been given are spread out over the course of the contract and so the Cardinals will still be "on the hook" for however much money is left from the bonuses paid. 10Million dollar bonus on a 5 year deal = 2 million per year paid by the team.

So it wouldn't cost the Cardinals anything really to cut him. They just have to keep taking the cap hit for the bonus. I don't think he's worth 9 million but I think they'll either ask him to take a paycut or take a hike. He's still the best QB on their roster but I think they'll do a complete overhaul.
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