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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: The Arizona Cardinals General Draft Talk Reply with quote

New thread, Webman does not like threads to go past the 100 page mark.

I am willing to put good money on this being the first in this forum to pass that mark. Good posting gents.

Some interesting tidbits from the end of the last thread.

stchamp98 wrote:
You've watched every game? And you don't know that Kiffin IS employing the Bill Walsh west coast offense right now?

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/34954/matt-barkley-and-uscs-sluggo-seam-play


Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
If we're gonna try and take Barkley we'd be best off to create a package centered around a 2014 pick and our 2013 2nd round pick (Which will be around 35-37) to get back into the 1st round.


If he were available then I would say great idea, but i worry he wont be available


Why would that be? There aren't any big QB needs for teams outside the top 10, none really in the teens, certainly none in the 20s. MAYBE the Jets, MAYBE the Bills. That's it. And, just for good measure, Barkley isn't that good.


I disagree with you saying Barkley isnt that good. Yes he's had a down year but that can be attributed to an awful oline and a game plan based almost solely on Lee. Kiffin didnt do a good job with the game plans. Barkley is good. Put him in a Bill Walsh-type West Coast offense, and Barkley will thrive. I think the Bills would grab Barkley because they said they will go and get a franchise QB. Barkley's stock will probably rise again.


Bolded: Wow. I, um... don't know what to say to this. Honest question, have you even seen USC/Barkley play?

As for Bills, here ya go:

"I just don't want to get people expecting that no matter who's there in the first round we're going to take a quarterback because that's not true. We'll still take the best player."

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/12/buddy-nix-drafting-qb-in-the-first-round-not-necessarily-true.html

Nix has said the Bills will absolutely come away with a franchise QB this year, but as noted, no where has he said that it has to come from the 1st round. (BTW, good luck with that this year, Buddy!)

And AZPSquared, as for Barkley going to the Bills, one question: Why the heck would we do that? We already have a QB who excels at short to intermediate throws, knows the offense (assuming Chan stays), and has a contract for a few more years. Further, Fitz is a warrior who gives his all (to the extent that he can) on the field and absolutely has the respect of his teammates. So, again, why would we ever want to replace one dink & dunk QB with another? Makes no freakin' sense. You want Barkley? He's all yours!


stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
If we're gonna try and take Barkley we'd be best off to create a package centered around a 2014 pick and our 2013 2nd round pick (Which will be around 35-37) to get back into the 1st round.


If he were available then I would say great idea, but i worry he wont be available


Why would that be? There aren't any big QB needs for teams outside the top 10, none really in the teens, certainly none in the 20s. MAYBE the Jets, MAYBE the Bills. That's it. And, just for good measure, Barkley isn't that good.


AAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD....GO.
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Last edited by khodder on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Among a number of other things, I'm very distressed at the notion that Barkley needs to be in a Walsh type offense to succeed or quote "thrive". That makes him a system QB. We can get a system QB in round 3. If that's all we want, just take Landry Jones. He can throw 5-8 yard passes in a limited route tree all the same and he costs us nothing. Hell, sign Alex Smith for 5-6 mill. He can do that all day long. Sign Matt Moore.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hell if we're gonna run that system, let's go swing a trade for Colt McCoy. He'd cost us a 6th or 7th round pick, he's on a dirt cheap contract and he can do everything that system calls for. He's a leader, he's smart as a whip and he's got the playbook down pat. He'd be throwing to Fitz, Roberts, Floyd and Housler as opposed to Mohammed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Greg Little and Ben Watson. He's got a weak arm but this system doesn't need an arm (Which is why Kiffin runs with Barkley). Seriously, if our plan is the Walsh West Coast, go get McCoy.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over/Under 250 pages before April 25th 2013?
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.

EDIT: I'm aware of what Barkley said, I posted it in the last draft thread. I'll go ahead and post my favorite part. It's the bolded section

"I think at times, though, I think we focused too much on him as a team and we took away from other great playmakers like Robert [Woods] and our tight ends who are phenomenal players, to where defenses saw that and just kind of overcrowded Marqise," Barkley said. "But he still managed to make plays, but I think we could have done a better job of utilizing other players."
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Hell if we're gonna run that system, let's go swing a trade for Colt McCoy. He'd cost us a 6th or 7th round pick, he's on a dirt cheap contract and he can do everything that system calls for. He's a leader, he's smart as a whip and he's got the playbook down pat. He'd be throwing to Fitz, Roberts, Floyd and Housler as opposed to Mohammed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Greg Little and Ben Watson. He's got a weak arm but this system doesn't need an arm (Which is why Kiffin runs with Barkley). Seriously, if our plan is the Walsh West Coast, go get McCoy.


You cant compare McCoy and Barkley just because they are better suited towards a West Coast system. Its like comparing John Skelton and Phil Rivers
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.


Game plan is a coaches fault
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.


Game plan is a coaches fault


LOL, and the game plan is the very West Coast offense you say he'd thrive in. But again, for your viewing pleasure. My favorite section being the bolded section:

"I think at times, though, I think we focused too much on him as a team and we took away from other great playmakers like Robert [Woods] and our tight ends who are phenomenal players, to where defenses saw that and just kind of overcrowded Marqise," Barkley said. "But he still managed to make plays, but I think we could have done a better job of utilizing other players."

See that? "I". Not "Lane Kiffin".
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.


Game plan is a coaches fault


LOL, and the game plan is the very West Coast offense you say he'd thrive in. But again, for your viewing pleasure. My favorite section being the bolded section:

"I think at times, though, I think we focused too much on him as a team and we took away from other great playmakers like Robert [Woods] and our tight ends who are phenomenal players, to where defenses saw that and just kind of overcrowded Marqise," Barkley said. "But he still managed to make plays, but I think we could have done a better job of utilizing other players."

See that? "I". Not "Lane Kiffin".


But that was "I think" that "We could have done a better job..." not "I think I could have done a better job..."
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Hell if we're gonna run that system, let's go swing a trade for Colt McCoy. He'd cost us a 6th or 7th round pick, he's on a dirt cheap contract and he can do everything that system calls for. He's a leader, he's smart as a whip and he's got the playbook down pat. He'd be throwing to Fitz, Roberts, Floyd and Housler as opposed to Mohammed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Greg Little and Ben Watson. He's got a weak arm but this system doesn't need an arm (Which is why Kiffin runs with Barkley). Seriously, if our plan is the Walsh West Coast, go get McCoy.


You cant compare McCoy and Barkley just because they are better suited towards a West Coast system. Its like comparing John Skelton and Phil Rivers


The problem there is Rivers and Skelton play in offenses driven on arm talent, highlighted by the need to consisently push the ball vertically down the field. Those guys actually have to have prime ability/arm talent to achieve at the highest level in their offenses. The West Coast offense is the exact opposite of that. It's a timing offense based on shorter throws to supplement the run game. You don't need a prime QB, which completely negates any talent difference between Barkley and McCoy.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.


Game plan is a coaches fault


LOL, and the game plan is the very West Coast offense you say he'd thrive in. But again, for your viewing pleasure. My favorite section being the bolded section:

"I think at times, though, I think we focused too much on him as a team and we took away from other great playmakers like Robert [Woods] and our tight ends who are phenomenal players, to where defenses saw that and just kind of overcrowded Marqise," Barkley said. "But he still managed to make plays, but I think we could have done a better job of utilizing other players."

See that? "I". Not "Lane Kiffin".


But that was "I think" that "We could have done a better job..." not "I think I could have done a better job..."


We being plural, meaning 2 people.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Hell if we're gonna run that system, let's go swing a trade for Colt McCoy. He'd cost us a 6th or 7th round pick, he's on a dirt cheap contract and he can do everything that system calls for. He's a leader, he's smart as a whip and he's got the playbook down pat. He'd be throwing to Fitz, Roberts, Floyd and Housler as opposed to Mohammed Massaquoi, Brian Robiskie, Greg Little and Ben Watson. He's got a weak arm but this system doesn't need an arm (Which is why Kiffin runs with Barkley). Seriously, if our plan is the Walsh West Coast, go get McCoy.


You cant compare McCoy and Barkley just because they are better suited towards a West Coast system. Its like comparing John Skelton and Phil Rivers


The problem there is Rivers and Skelton play in offenses driven on arm talent, highlighted by the need to consisently push the ball vertically down the field. Those guys actually have to have prime ability/arm talent to achieve at the highest level in their offenses. The West Coast offense is the exact opposite of that. It's a timing offense based on shorter throws to supplement the run game. You don't need a prime QB, which completely negates any talent difference between Barkley and McCoy.


So the Eagles run a west coast offense and Michael Vick has performed great in that system (when his oline doesnt fall apart in the blink of an eye) and McCoy ran the west coast and wasnt successful.
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AZPSquared


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZPSquared wrote:
I know USC runs the Walsh West Coast, and I said he should be in that system but the game plan in terms of executions was not up to snuff.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/05/sports/la-sp-1206-usc-football-20121206

http://insider.espn.go.com/colleges/usc/football/story/_/id/8730086/matt-barkley-latest-question-lane-kiffin-strategy-usc-trojans


Execution...is a players issue.


Game plan is a coaches fault


LOL, and the game plan is the very West Coast offense you say he'd thrive in. But again, for your viewing pleasure. My favorite section being the bolded section:

"I think at times, though, I think we focused too much on him as a team and we took away from other great playmakers like Robert [Woods] and our tight ends who are phenomenal players, to where defenses saw that and just kind of overcrowded Marqise," Barkley said. "But he still managed to make plays, but I think we could have done a better job of utilizing other players."

See that? "I". Not "Lane Kiffin".


But that was "I think" that "We could have done a better job..." not "I think I could have done a better job..."


We being plural, meaning 2 people.


Yes I know that means he didnt take the blame on himself he said "we" implying that there were others to blame for a poor game plan...Lane Kiffin
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should just go clone Steve Young and put him back there at QB. That would work.

[controversey]**Note I am of the belief that Young is among the best 3 quarterbacks to ever play the position and is the best QB to ever play for the 49ers** [/controversey]
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