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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Also, in regards to the whole Payton situation. I love that the main argument is "Payton sees how much of a mess the Saints are this year!" And then the next argument is "So he's going to leave...for Dallas" Laughing Laughing
I don't think it will have anything to do w/ the status of the Saints if he goes to Dallas, I think it will be a) b/c JJ offers him more money/control, and b) to be closer to his family (who lives in Dallas). Not to mention the prestige that comes w/ being the Cowboys head man. Essential to Payton going tho would be that JJ gives him final say on personnel.

Benson can pay whatever JJ does and control? Really? He practically runs the Saints and JJ gives his head coaches very little control. The only reason Payton would leave for Dallas is for his family, but I still don't see him doing it.
Benson is a very rich man, JJ is a richer man. Benson now has to worry about supporting the Pelicans and the Saints, is there enough money to go around? Sure, but his pocketbook isn't as limitless as JJs is.

Yes, but Sean Payton is only a head coach. Its not like Jones is going to throw 200 million at him. Regardless, my original point was I found it funny that people started this whole thing with "Why would he go back to the Saints?! Look at how much of a mess they are!" and then they follow it up with "He's going to Dallas!". Dallas is just as dysfunctional as New Orleans, if not more.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Superman(DH23) wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Also, in regards to the whole Payton situation. I love that the main argument is "Payton sees how much of a mess the Saints are this year!" And then the next argument is "So he's going to leave...for Dallas" Laughing Laughing
I don't think it will have anything to do w/ the status of the Saints if he goes to Dallas, I think it will be a) b/c JJ offers him more money/control, and b) to be closer to his family (who lives in Dallas). Not to mention the prestige that comes w/ being the Cowboys head man. Essential to Payton going tho would be that JJ gives him final say on personnel.

Benson can pay whatever JJ does and control? Really? He practically runs the Saints and JJ gives his head coaches very little control. The only reason Payton would leave for Dallas is for his family, but I still don't see him doing it.
Benson is a very rich man, JJ is a richer man. Benson now has to worry about supporting the Pelicans and the Saints, is there enough money to go around? Sure, but his pocketbook isn't as limitless as JJs is.

Yes, but Sean Payton is only a head coach. Its not like Jones is going to throw 200 million at him. Regardless, my original point was I found it funny that people started this whole thing with "Why would he go back to the Saints?! Look at how much of a mess they are!" and then they follow it up with "He's going to Dallas!". Dallas is just as dysfunctional as New Orleans, if not more.
I agree but I think Dallas is just a good HC and JJ relinquishing control to an HC he trusts away from being a really good team.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Dallas is just as dysfunctional as New Orleans, if not more.


Explain....



Plus - you are completely ignoring the fact that Dallas >>>> NOLA when it comes to notoriety.


Its like winning at Utah VS Florida/OSU for Urben Myer.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Dallas is just as dysfunctional as New Orleans, if not more.


Explain....



Plus - you are completely ignoring the fact that Dallas >>>> NOLA when it comes to notoriety.


Its like winning at Utah VS Florida/OSU for Urben Myer.

I mean, Dallas has underachieved for the last few seasons just like New Orleans did this year, and Jerry Jones is arguably one of the worst owners in football, he's quickly becoming Al Davis 2.0 IMO. The guy spends money like no other but makes bad football decisions because he tries to be Owner/GM/HC/Grounds keeper.
New Orleans has also developed into a nice football market, so I don't think that comparison is very fair. I'd compare it more to something like coaching at Alabama (Dallas) Vs. Oregon (New Orleans). New Orleans has a huge fan base, arguably one of the best stadiums in the league to play at home in and has developed into a winning franchise. Dallas while they can call themselves "Americas Team" all they want, hasn't been a Super Bowl contender since the 90s.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
I mean, Dallas has underachieved for the last few seasons just like New Orleans did this year


Id argue that Dallas is overacheiving quite a bit this season when you factor in the talent level/depth and the amount of injuries sustained. Im in shock that we have a winning recored. Weve turned over greather than 60% of the starting positions since Garrett took over last year. The team is in a rebuilding phase; But we are still pretty damn competitive.

Harper41 wrote:
Jerry Jones is arguably one of the worst owners in football


This is absurd. Id argue that as an >OWNER< Jerry is only rivaled by Robert Kraft. Jerrys influence is only second to the commissioner in all of football. He just poped out a BILLION dollars to build the best stadium in the world. I cant believe you even said this...

Now - You can argue about his antics as a GM. But anyone who follows the Cowboys at all would tell you that he has increasingly delegated a lot of the day to day stuff to others. There are a lot of people who feel Stephen Jones is now the de facto GM. As seen by the major changes the last ~3 years. Also, Jason Garrett was given complete control over the roster.


Harper41 wrote:
Dallas while they can call themselves "Americas Team" all they want


Dallas didnt come up with the name "America's team", the NFL did. Why did they do that? Because there is no doubt the Cowboys are the most popular franchise in the NFL, and one of the most popular of all teams in the world.

Harper41 wrote:
hasn't been a Super Bowl contender since the 90s.


Neither was NOLA for... I dunno.. 40 years? Didnt stop Payton from going there and winning one.


Not that I think Payton will come here, because I dont, but that doesnt mean you cant connect the dots. Payton was very close to both Romo and Jones. Its not out of the realm of possibility that he would like to build on his legacy.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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nugpimpen


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait wait

Jerry the 2nd best Owner????????????

Ummmmm


It's awesome that he isn't afraid to shell out money for anything and will win at any cost, but he is getting in his own way.

His ego keeps him from hiring a GM who is an expert at running a team. He instead takes it on himself and hasn't had much recent success.
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eagles101


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
I mean, Dallas has underachieved for the last few seasons just like New Orleans did this year


Id argue that Dallas is overacheiving quite a bit this season when you factor in the talent level/depth and the amount of injuries sustained. Im in shock that we have a winning recored. Weve turned over greather than 60% of the starting positions since Garrett took over last year. The team is in a rebuilding phase; But we are still pretty damn competitive.

Harper41 wrote:
Jerry Jones is arguably one of the worst owners in football


This is absurd. Id argue that as an >OWNER< Jerry is only rivaled by Robert Kraft. Jerrys influence is only second to the commissioner in all of football. He just poped out a BILLION dollars to build the best stadium in the world. I cant believe you even said this...

Now - You can argue about his antics as a GM. But anyone who follows the Cowboys at all would tell you that he has increasingly delegated a lot of the day to day stuff to others. There are a lot of people who feel Stephen Jones is now the de facto GM. As seen by the major changes the last ~3 years. Also, Jason Garrett was given complete control over the roster.


Harper41 wrote:
Dallas while they can call themselves "Americas Team" all they want


Dallas didnt come up with the name "America's team", the NFL did. Why did they do that? Because there is no doubt the Cowboys are the most popular franchise in the NFL, and one of the most popular of all teams in the world.

Harper41 wrote:
hasn't been a Super Bowl contender since the 90s.


Neither was NOLA for... I dunno.. 40 years? Didnt stop Payton from going there and winning one.


Not that I think Payton will come here, because I dont, but that doesnt mean you cant connect the dots. Payton was very close to both Romo and Jones. Its not out of the realm of possibility that he would like to build on his legacy.


Laughing this whole thing made me have a little chuckle to myself. nothing against you but most this is just a view that only an cowboys fan or someone who grew up in the 80/90s that doesnt pay attention to football.
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I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate.
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mco65


Joined: 04 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for label; America's Team, the Cowboys do NOT hide from that moniker but they did NOT anoint themselves that title. That came from NFL Films and Steve Sabol so if it pisses you off that the Cowboys are America's Team, go Blame Sabol or NFL Films.. not the Cowboys.

As for Jones being one of the best owners... he's better than some, worse than others. One thing you need to remember about Jerry is he makes the entire LEAGUE money. The NFL is a revenue sharing league and Jerry does way more than his fare share of revenue earnings. So when your team signs a top notch free agent to a fat contract, you can thank Jerry... because NO DOUBT he had a lot to do with it!

Where Jerry gets in trouble is his GM role.. he does as good as any at draft time but he tends to get a little over reaching on FAs.. Jerry is hands on and he loves the Cowboys. He wants to be involved in everything and he wants others to think of him as a FOOTBALL man and not just an owner. That's were he tends to screw up. Instead of just sitting back and signing checks, he wants to be involved in the every day football operations and to be honest, if it were my team, SO WOULD I!

So Jerry is not the best owner, i get that.. but he's better than most. I would much rather have Jerry than half of the other owners in the league. Would I rather have Bob Kraft or the Rooneys.. sure, but it beats Mike Brown in Cincy or Bill Bidwell in AZ,


Last edited by mco65 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This threads getting off topic so I'll just end my thoughts with this - All I was saying is Dallas as a TEAM is definitely no more appealing than New Orleans, that's what I was trying to say, but Sean Payton knows the Saints are a contender with him, Dallas would be a question mark.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
This threads getting off topic so I'll just end my thoughts with this - All I was saying is Dallas as a TEAM is definitely no more appealing than New Orleans, that's what I was trying to say, but Sean Payton knows the Saints are a contender with him, Dallas would be a question mark.


That could be part of the appeal? Payton has already taken a historically dead beat franchise and made them not only contenders but Super Bowl Champions. How can he top that in New Orleans? He can't, he can match it with another Super Bowl win but perhaps he would like the challenge of taking another franchise to a Championship.. I don't know, just guessing but a new challenge could be his motivation..
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mco65 wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
This threads getting off topic so I'll just end my thoughts with this - All I was saying is Dallas as a TEAM is definitely no more appealing than New Orleans, that's what I was trying to say, but Sean Payton knows the Saints are a contender with him, Dallas would be a question mark.


That could be part of the appeal? Payton has already taken a historically dead beat franchise and made them not only contenders but Super Bowl Champions. How can he top that in New Orleans? He can't, he can match it with another Super Bowl win but perhaps he would like the challenge of taking another franchise to a Championship.. I don't know, just guessing but a new challenge could be his motivation..

I mean, this is all media speculation because Payton hasn't said anything remotely close to him wanting to go ditch Nawlins for Dallas but he's a legend here, people treat him like a god, not sure why he'd want to leave that and if Benson knows whats good for him he'll hand Payton a blank check or their will be riots.
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mco65


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I heard that it was Paytons (team) that released the fact that his contract was voided to the media and that he could be a free agent.?

Perhaps not but I thought I read/heard that somewhere.. I just assume Payton will use the Cowboys or any other NFL job to squeeze more cash from the Saints/Benson..
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