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Outsiders look at Tom Heckert, GM
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Should the Browns stick with Tom Heckert
YES
87%
 87%  [ 14 ]
NO
12%
 12%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 16

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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 28488
Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Outsiders look at Tom Heckert, GM Reply with quote

Good Morning NFL GEN!

Sorry to take you away from the Brady vs Peyton vs. RGIII vs Luck debates, but as a Browns fan, i'm hoping to get some perspective from outsiders.

Judging by a lot of rumors lately, Browns fans fear that our GM, Tom Heckert will be let go at the end of the season, and that Joe Banner will bring in some one he is familiar with. One name being floated right now is Mike Lombardi (Yikes).

Most Browns fans have a strong liking of Heckert because his drafts over the last few years have been very strong and are a reason that we are starting to come together as a team.

We have one of the top 3 youngest rosters in the league.

Almost every quality starter we have is very young.

We haven't had good drafting in 2 decades, and all of a sudden we are hitting quite frequently.

Even the players that are universally thought to be reaches, have turned out well for us lately.

The supplemental pick of Gordon in the 2nd round looks like a complete steal compared to what awaits in this upcoming draft.


This is not about Pat Shurmur.

We have no undying loyalty to Pat, even though the team is playing better lately.

It's about having our first competent GM in 20 years.

Just looking for some outside views here.

Thanks
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They should keep him.

Its too early to say this team will be anything good, but he has done more with this team than the last several GMs. Even if that isnt really saying much, he has done a solid job after starting off with a very untalented roster overall.

On top of that, the Browns need some form of consistency. Making drastic changes to the front office and coaching staff every 3 years isnt a good idea. Id at least give him a couple more years, but it all depends how the GM and new owner get along, and if the owners mindset of building a team is similar (or if they just sit back and let the GM do everything).

Time will tell....I think, at least in terms of how he has done do this point, he deserves more time....but there are many more factors than that which really cant be answered by fans.
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RuskieTitan


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the picture you paint, should they? Yes.

But it comes down to what the owner feels like doing.
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lionslicer


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Speculation has it if Lombardi becomes GM, he can help lure Nick Saben back to the NFL to coach the Browns... Saben has said he would only return to the NFL if he could work with Lombardi.'

If that happens, I feel bad for the Browns as a franchise.
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RuskieTitan


Joined: 29 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lionslicer wrote:
Speculation has it if Lombardi becomes GM, he can help lure Nick Saben back to the NFL to coach the Browns...

If that happens, I feel bad for the Browns as a franchise.


I see no reason why Nick Saban would want to leave a job where he's routinely winning national championships. Unless there would be some substantial sanctions, bans, etc. coming down the pipeline.
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lionslicer


Joined: 06 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RuskieTitan wrote:
lionslicer wrote:
Speculation has it if Lombardi becomes GM, he can help lure Nick Saben back to the NFL to coach the Browns...

If that happens, I feel bad for the Browns as a franchise.


I see no reason why Nick Saban would want to leave a job where he's routinely winning national championships. Unless there would be some substantial sanctions, bans, etc. coming down the pipeline.


Yeah because you know, he didn't do that before with the Dolphins or anything....

It's just what people have been saying. If it were any other team, I'd strike it down, especially since Saban is actually making more than the average NFL head coach.... But the Browns seem to have the worst luck of any franchise, of course this would happen to them. The football Gods would brain wash Saban to do this.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lionslicer wrote:
'Speculation has it if Lombardi becomes GM, he can help lure Nick Saben back to the NFL to coach the Browns... Saben has said he would only return to the NFL if he could work with Lombardi.'

If that happens, I feel bad for the Browns as a franchise.


Seriously doubt that happens for the reasons Ruskie mentioned above me.

I think Saban learned in his first stint in the NFL that he is more suited to be a college coach, and now, he is in position to be a legendary CFB coach and set records that no coach may ever reach. He has the best program in the country and can land top recruits like its nothing.

I think he would be an idiot to even consider it.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lionslicer wrote:
RuskieTitan wrote:
lionslicer wrote:
Speculation has it if Lombardi becomes GM, he can help lure Nick Saben back to the NFL to coach the Browns...

If that happens, I feel bad for the Browns as a franchise.


I see no reason why Nick Saban would want to leave a job where he's routinely winning national championships. Unless there would be some substantial sanctions, bans, etc. coming down the pipeline.


Yeah because you know, he didn't do that before with the Dolphins or anything....


Completely different situation.

That was his first time and probably wanted to give it a try, but considering he wanted to return to college football rather than stay in the NFL, my guess is he knows he is best suited for what he is doing now.
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The Curtain


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Browns have been a competitive team this year, they probably need a HC more so than a GM right now. The drafting has been pretty decent outside of Weeden.
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nugpimpen


Joined: 18 Feb 2006
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Location: 10 Miles South of Cleveland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything you guys have said so far.

The consistency aspect is huge with me as well.

You want the right guys in place, but you won't find out the right guys are if they are changed out every 2 or 3 years.

I'm sure of the GM and becoming a bit more comfortable with the Coach, even though he still does a lot of dumb things.

The one thing that is clear is that the vast majority of our talent is very young and starting to grow together.

There is much optimism throughout Cleveland for the first time in ahwhile.

Hopefully we can continue this without making stupid decisions to keep us down.
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Rich7sena


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curtain wrote:
Browns have been a competitive team this year, they probably need a HC more so than a GM right now. The drafting has been pretty decent outside of Weeden.


Weeden has been coming along well this year and if he's able to take that leap into the top 12 conversation next year, I think he could end up warranting his late first round selection.

Heckert has really built up that offense to something that has a lot of young playmakers on the perimeter and in the backfield. The defense isn't bad either. I think the Browns are potentially a year away of competing for the division title.
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my view is similar to the consensus (retain Heckert, fire Shurmur).

The talent base on the team is good and almost of it has come through the draft in the last 3 years - and 3 of the 4 significant holdovers (Jackson, Rubin, Mack, Thomas) have had reasonable contract extensions since 2010. I disagreed with the Weeden pick at the time, but looking at the QB talent in this draft class it wasn't entirely unreasonable. The Gordon pick, which I felt was ridiculous at the time, is looking more and more like an excellent decision.

However, while the young talent has progressed to an extent, I still feel that the coaching staff is not getting the best out of the team, and Shurmur's gameday decision-making is particularly awful (remember that punt decision where Haslam looked like he was going to punch something).

Heckert should be given a chance to pick his own coach (without Holmgrem's input) - preferably not a LaMonte client - and then be given the chance to stand or fall on his own coach and QB.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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Location: Hashtag BirdCity
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you all should keep him. He's done a decent job thus far, and while I do think that Browns fans overrate him a bit because A) he's been the best you've had in a while, and B) his homerun picks have mainly been top of the 1st round picks, I think that he certainly has the team going in the right direction. I really like what he did with trading back in 2011 and gathering picks, though I really don't like how he spent them in 2012.

Overall though, I think he's done enough to keep his job, but I don't think he's fantastic or anything -- just "pretty good".
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OH-snelld4GB-IO


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compare his drafts against other gms who are considered elite and you'll see he matches up extremely well. He is very good at getting talent at any spot in the draft. Firing him would be a terrible move
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
I really don't like how he spent them in 2012.


Explain please
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