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Realistic QB options in no patricular order.
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Cusi10


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 362
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
Cusi10 wrote:
champ i would trust you and khodders opinion on this question. so you said barkley cant throw every route in our tree. when we were in our hayday with kurt especially his last year when we went 10-6 would u say he could throw every route in our tree?


No. He could not throw past 15 yards with any great accuracy or consistency.


so if thats the case then why couldnt an accurate passer, great leader, guy with a good release and winner like barkley do well in our offense?
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cusi10 wrote:
khodder wrote:
Cusi10 wrote:
champ i would trust you and khodders opinion on this question. so you said barkley cant throw every route in our tree. when we were in our hayday with kurt especially his last year when we went 10-6 would u say he could throw every route in our tree?


No. He could not throw past 15 yards with any great accuracy or consistency.


so if thats the case then why couldnt an accurate passer, great leader, guy with a good release and winner like barkley do well in our offense?


Because he does not have the things that Kurt had in droves that made him successful. The anticipation, the ball placement, the toughness to hang in the pocket and take a hit. The willingness to trust a guy like Fitz, to throw one up and trust him to come down with it. Most of all he does not have the lightning release that Kurt Warner had. Kurt read defenses pre-snap like few others he knew where he was going with the ball before it was snapped because he knew what the defense was going to do pre-snap, he worked his rear off in the film room for a decade in the NFL that that is where it got him. Did it catch him out at times, sure, I think we all remember the time it caught him out in the Superbowl, but most of the time it worked for him.

Do not even begin to compare Matt Barkley to 2010 Kurt Warner, because it only leads to bad places.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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Location: Brisvegas, Land Down Under
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barkley atm tends to chuck it at M Lee when he is in trouble, he is no Fitz, but as close as you are going to get in college.

I agree Barkley doesnt have Kurt's intangibles, who does at that age, but he has some moxie about him, otherwise he wouldnt be starting as trojans qb.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
I'll take Max Hall with 3 inches and a good arm. I have yet to see anything convincing that Barkley's arm is average or below. Seen 50+ with velocity in a stand still. His arm strength is one of the last things I'd worry about.


If you have any tangible evidence that Barkley has ever thrown 50+ yards down the field "standing still", I'd love to see it.

You can convince yourself of whatever you like. Barkley's average to below average in this department and cannot make all the throws in our route tree. I'd love it if he could (I'm not actively looking for less QB options for this team, I'd be ticked pink if Barkley was good enough to make it) but he can't.
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AZCardinalsFan


Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 1180
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
apollo14000 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
AZCardinalsFan wrote:
I would go for a small school player. But not a later round project. He has to be able to play right away. Im assuming we are talking about Fales?? I took a quick look at his stats and they are pretty impressive. Much better than Skeltons or Lindleys were in college by far.


Ryan Lindley college completion percentage: 55.5
John Skelton college completion percentage: 58.8
David Fales college completion percentage: 66.9

These guys are nothing alike.


Fales hasn't had a single game under 65% either. That's incredible. Geno Smih has 3, albeit stronger competition but Fales played two great defenses too (Stanford and BYU)

Also I admit I haven't done my homework on Fales. Kinda assumed a 1 year starter would stay in school. The biggest knock some people have on him is his arm strength which they call average or whatever. I have a hard time believing a guy who throws 9.31 yards per attempt has an arm that isn't good enough for the NFL.

Anyway that's just me. I'm just talking stats though so take it for what it's worth.


His biggest strengths right now are footwork, pocket feel, release and ball placement. His arm is good enough, not great, but good enough, he carries the ball like a loaf of bread in the pocket and that irks me a little bit, but if that is a reason for his quick release and ball placement then lets not try to reinvent the wheel unless sack fumbles really start to become an issue.

Fales has underrated athleticism too, there are games where he gets called QB runs.


Whose arm strength would you compare it to in the NFL? As of right now where we are picking #7 (I think). Would you take him?
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DDOCKETT90


Joined: 25 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could khodder or champ do a break down for fales? Thanks
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khodder


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
I have yet to see anything convincing that Barkley's arm is average or below. Seen 50+ with velocity in a stand still. His arm strength is one of the last things I'd worry about.


Find me evidence of him throwing a 10 yard out in college.

Look at how some of his WR screens have a arc to them, those throws are meant to be on a line, you cannot put air under those throws.

I don't care how far the guy can throw the ball if he cannot put enough zip on the ball in the intermediate passing game he is going to get picked off a lot.

Quote:
Whose arm strength would you compare it to in the NFL? As of right now where we are picking #7 (I think). Would you take him?


It does not seem to much different from a Tom Brady's arm. Not to dissimilar to Kevin Kolb's arm.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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Location: the Arizona desert
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
I'll take Max Hall with 3 inches and a good arm. I have yet to see anything convincing that Barkley's arm is average or below. Seen 50+ with velocity in a stand still. His arm strength is one of the last things I'd worry about.


If you have any tangible evidence that Barkley has ever thrown 50+ yards down the field "standing still", I'd love to see it.

You can convince yourself of whatever you like. Barkley's average to below average in this department and cannot make all the throws in our route tree. I'd love it if he could (I'm not actively looking for less QB options for this team, I'd be ticked pink if Barkley was good enough to make it) but he can't.


0:12

Probably not the best example because it was a bad throw but you get the jist. I've seen Barkley throw some ducks but so did Luck & RG3.
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DirtyDez


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
I have yet to see anything convincing that Barkley's arm is average or below. Seen 50+ with velocity in a stand still. His arm strength is one of the last things I'd worry about.


Find me evidence of him throwing a 10 yard out in college.

Look at how some of his WR screens have a arc to them, those throws are meant to be on a line, you cannot put air under those throws.

I don't care how far the guy can throw the ball if he cannot put enough zip on the ball in the intermediate passing game he is going to get picked off a lot.

Quote:
Whose arm strength would you compare it to in the NFL? As of right now where we are picking #7 (I think). Would you take him?


It does not seem to much different from a Tom Brady's arm. Not to dissimilar to Kevin Kolb's arm.


So his arm strength diminished from year 3 to 4? Because you and everyone else had him as a top 3 pick last year. One bad season change everything for you?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DirtyDez wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:
I'll take Max Hall with 3 inches and a good arm. I have yet to see anything convincing that Barkley's arm is average or below. Seen 50+ with velocity in a stand still. His arm strength is one of the last things I'd worry about.


If you have any tangible evidence that Barkley has ever thrown 50+ yards down the field "standing still", I'd love to see it.

You can convince yourself of whatever you like. Barkley's average to below average in this department and cannot make all the throws in our route tree. I'd love it if he could (I'm not actively looking for less QB options for this team, I'd be ticked pink if Barkley was good enough to make it) but he can't.


0:12

Probably not the best example because it was a bad throw but you get the jist. I've seen Barkley throw some ducks but so did Luck & RG3.


That's not the biggest problem with that throw. To get enough power behind it he's got to get on his backfoot. See how his weight shifts and rocks onto his right leg? That's not arm strength, that's putting your full body into your throw which, among other problems, throws off your footwork/mechanics and leads to exactly what we saw. Lame duck floater.
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BBIB


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 8771
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ARen't you guys stuck with Kolb?

Kevin Kolb
2013- $14.9 million
2014- $13.9 million
2015- $13.9 million
2016- $11.9 million
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of that is paper money.

We can cut him and not cripple ourselves.

Still the whole deal has crippled ourselves so far.
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if his contract is on paper in the same way that Vick's is on paper, then might as well let Kolb be Vick's backup once again Laughing

If you have a QB who isn't going to start all 16 games might as well get a better version

Also Vick could lure the best coaching candidate out there potentially in Chip Kelly

Vick with a creative RGIII type offense with Larry Fitzgerald, and drafting Luke Joeckel and others to revamp your Oline and all of a sudden the Cardinals could be favorites in the NFC West

You already have the promising pieces on defense do you not?
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the D could play O we would be in the playoffs.

Pity NFL is not rugby league.
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DirtyDez


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip is going to Philly. Money & Shady McCoy.
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