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How the Dolphins Should Approach the Offseason
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ovaw8lover


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 9053
Location: Dolphins Stadium
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we assuming Miami will not draft a QB in this draft they should devote all of their picks to Offensive line, Defensive end and receivers. I do not think there is a franchise WR from what I am hearing so they need speedy, quick guys. I think Jake Long should be franchised if a long term term deal cannot be worked out. Bye, bye Reggie. Sorry bruh, you play runningback.

Miami really needs to focus on guys with great speed and can change direction well. This is the case for each one of their positions. Enough with the big guys. We do not need any more Odrick's. He is a big stiff, strong guy. Miami needs undersized fast guys.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:

You've seen our offense in those four years right???

We have no one to develop! As a great man once said "We have several 3,4 & 5 WR's, but not 1's and 2's".

Oh wait, it wasn't a great man at all. It was, well you know.


Yes, I've seen every game during the last 4 years. And you're right, we didn't have much to develop. Part of the reason for that is we've been developing Hartline. According to some on this site at the beginning of the season, Hartline was part of the reason the team felt confident letting Marshall go. Hartline has had ONE TD this season as the "main" guy. I love his hands, I love his body control, I love his blocking ability for his size and I love his heart, however, he's not going to score points for us. He doesn't get much separation. He does not break tackles. He's not a play maker in any way, shape or form. The fact is, he is going to expect starting money, and I wouldn't want Hartline as a starter. I'd be fine with him as the #3, but we have Bess for that. We don't need both, because they shouldn't be on the field at the same time, IMHO. So, why spend cap space on what we have in another guy. Wanna keep, Hartline? Fine by me, then let's find a new home for Bess and unload the cap space he's taking up. OR lets keep whichever one is willing to play for less money, but both, to me, just don't make sense. Neither one is gonna win us games. They will help move chains, but they don't contribute on the score board with ANY regularity.
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cddolphin


Joined: 23 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember that Hartline is playing against #1 DBs.

And he's having a 1,000+ yard season with questionable QB and OL play.

If he's the #2 WR, he would do very well, especially between the 20 yard lines. Who wouldn't be happy with a regular 1,000 yard season with 3-4 TDs sprinkled in from a #2 WR? I believe that's his potential, and he's close to it.
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartline >> Bess

1. Jennings / Wallace
2. Rookie from 1st / 2nd / 3rd round
3. Hartline (between the 20s guy with high average)
4. Bess (consistent chainmover, not flashy at all)

That's a good WR corps and it's not an expensive one, I doubt Hartline will demand #1 money and the rookie will be cheap; is this Bess' last year in his current contract?
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Judson49


Joined: 27 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:

You've seen our offense in those four years right???

We have no one to develop! As a great man once said "We have several 3,4 & 5 WR's, but not 1's and 2's".

Oh wait, it wasn't a great man at all. It was, well you know.


Yes, I've seen every game during the last 4 years. And you're right, we didn't have much to develop. Part of the reason for that is we've been developing Hartline. According to some on this site at the beginning of the season, Hartline was part of the reason the team felt confident letting Marshall go. Hartline has had ONE TD this season as the "main" guy. I love his hands, I love his body control, I love his blocking ability for his size and I love his heart, however, he's not going to score points for us. He doesn't get much separation. He does not break tackles. He's not a play maker in any way, shape or form. The fact is, he is going to expect starting money, and I wouldn't want Hartline as a starter. I'd be fine with him as the #3, but we have Bess for that. We don't need both, because they shouldn't be on the field at the same time, IMHO. So, why spend cap space on what we have in another guy. Wanna keep, Hartline? Fine by me, then let's find a new home for Bess and unload the cap space he's taking up. OR lets keep whichever one is willing to play for less money, but both, to me, just don't make sense. Neither one is gonna win us games. They will help move chains, but they don't contribute on the score board with ANY regularity.


I think you're being a little harsh Merc. No Dolphin scores TD's regularly. Reggie Bush doesn't, hell even Brandon Marshall didn't.

I get what you're saying re money, but if we've reached a point where we're dumping Hartline who squeezes every ounce out of what he's got & giving multi-million dollar contracts to the likes of Sean Smith who have all the combine measurables but minimal contribution then we're really on the wrong path.

Hartline has been totally miscast as a number 1 WR because the cupboard is bare but he's still produced. Imagine how useful the qualities he has that you've noted will be when we go out & get those playmakers that are supposedly coming in Ireland's next batch of draft picks & free agents.

I know we came real close with Johnson, Gates, Gaffney & Naanee (Armon Binns might be that guy!), but when they do come Hartline should become a hugely important safety net for Tannehill.
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DOLFAN016


Joined: 20 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
Hartline >> Bess

1. Jennings / Wallace
2. Rookie from 1st / 2nd / 3rd round
3. Hartline (between the 20s guy with high average)
4. Bess (consistent chainmover, not flashy at all)

That's a good WR corps and it's not an expensive one, I doubt Hartline will demand #1 money and the rookie will be cheap; is this Bess' last year in his current contract?


My preference would be as follows...

1. Jennings (for obvious reasons)
2. Cordarrelle Patterson in round 2 (6'3" and speed to burn)
3. Hartline (solid #3)
4. Binns (potential and some game experience)
5. Matthews/Moore (coin flip)

Slot - Bess
TE - Clay/Egnew/Rookie

Is it possible to carry 6 WRs on an active roster? I'm honestly not sure if it's 5 or 6. Confused
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartline could be that Brandon Stokley type player for the Dolphins.....he's not a number 1 WR and he never will be, but he does have great hands, runs good routes and has a very good report with Tannehill.

In the development of a young QB you can't have complete turnover at the WR position. Adding a true number one guy will take a significant amount of heat off of Hartline allowing him to be that guy that helps moves the chains, pick up that 20 yarder on the sideline, but isn't expected to carry the core. They guys work the sideline very well, in fact I doubt there are 5 WR that have better sideline skills then Hartline.

Of the players that potentially go at the end of the season I would much rather part ways with a Reggie Bush (RB's are a dime a dozen) then a WR that has been as productive as Hartline has. IF he goes, he will end up on a team like the Broncos, Pats, or even the Colts as their second option putting up 800 - 900 yard seasons and we will be back on these boards asking why did we let him go.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:


I think you're being a little harsh Merc. No Dolphin scores TD's regularly. Reggie Bush doesn't, hell even Brandon Marshall didn't.

I get what you're saying re money, but if we've reached a point where we're dumping Hartline who squeezes every ounce out of what he's got & giving multi-million dollar contracts to the likes of Sean Smith who have all the combine measurables but minimal contribution then we're really on the wrong path.


I know that no Dolphins score TD's. I don't see how retaining all the same talent is going to change that. Adding Tannehill was the right choice, but lets be honest, Bess and Hartline aren't redzone guys and they aren't deep threats.

Judson49 wrote:

Hartline has been totally miscast as a number 1 WR because the cupboard is bare but he's still produced. Imagine how useful the qualities he has that you've noted will be when we go out & get those playmakers that are supposedly coming in Ireland's next batch of draft picks & free agents.


I agree, he has been miscast. Lets not further the problem by paying him like a starter when he is more of a supporting roll. Someone else aptly compared Hartline to Brandon Stokely. I think that is a great comparison, although Stokely is more prodigious around the goal line, but the comparison works for me. Stokely got a 1 million dollar, one year contract from the Broncos. If the Dolphins got Hartline for that, then great. I will be THRILLED. The problem is that he will be asking for, and would get, 3-4 million a season if the fans in this forum were the GM of the team, from what I can tell. That's my issue. Hartline is very much like a Stokely, but wants to be paid like a starter/top notch player and he is not.
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ProudDolphan47


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:


I think you're being a little harsh Merc. No Dolphin scores TD's regularly. Reggie Bush doesn't, hell even Brandon Marshall didn't.

I get what you're saying re money, but if we've reached a point where we're dumping Hartline who squeezes every ounce out of what he's got & giving multi-million dollar contracts to the likes of Sean Smith who have all the combine measurables but minimal contribution then we're really on the wrong path.


I know that no Dolphins score TD's. I don't see how retaining all the same talent is going to change that. Adding Tannehill was the right choice, but lets be honest, Bess and Hartline aren't redzone guys and they aren't deep threats.

Judson49 wrote:

Hartline has been totally miscast as a number 1 WR because the cupboard is bare but he's still produced. Imagine how useful the qualities he has that you've noted will be when we go out & get those playmakers that are supposedly coming in Ireland's next batch of draft picks & free agents.


I agree, he has been miscast. Lets not further the problem by paying him like a starter when he is more of a supporting roll. Someone else aptly compared Hartline to Brandon Stokely. I think that is a great comparison, although Stokely is more prodigious around the goal line, but the comparison works for me. Stokely got a 1 million dollar, one year contract from the Broncos. If the Dolphins got Hartline for that, then great. I will be THRILLED. The problem is that he will be asking for, and would get, 3-4 million a season if the fans in this forum were the GM of the team, from what I can tell. That's my issue. Hartline is very much like a Stokely, but wants to be paid like a starter/top notch player and he is not.


Say they meet in the middle and Hartline asks for 2 million dollars a year. Is that okay for you?

And for the record...Tony McDaniel takes 3 Million a year. I'd be more than happy to trade off Hartline for McDaniel and let McDaniel walk and call things a push. However I'm not sure Hartline is going to command that kind of money, I think you're overestimating his asking price a bit Merc. But thats something we'll just have to wait and see on.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProudDolphan47 wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
Judson49 wrote:


I think you're being a little harsh Merc. No Dolphin scores TD's regularly. Reggie Bush doesn't, hell even Brandon Marshall didn't.

I get what you're saying re money, but if we've reached a point where we're dumping Hartline who squeezes every ounce out of what he's got & giving multi-million dollar contracts to the likes of Sean Smith who have all the combine measurables but minimal contribution then we're really on the wrong path.


I know that no Dolphins score TD's. I don't see how retaining all the same talent is going to change that. Adding Tannehill was the right choice, but lets be honest, Bess and Hartline aren't redzone guys and they aren't deep threats.

Judson49 wrote:

Hartline has been totally miscast as a number 1 WR because the cupboard is bare but he's still produced. Imagine how useful the qualities he has that you've noted will be when we go out & get those playmakers that are supposedly coming in Ireland's next batch of draft picks & free agents.


I agree, he has been miscast. Lets not further the problem by paying him like a starter when he is more of a supporting roll. Someone else aptly compared Hartline to Brandon Stokely. I think that is a great comparison, although Stokely is more prodigious around the goal line, but the comparison works for me. Stokely got a 1 million dollar, one year contract from the Broncos. If the Dolphins got Hartline for that, then great. I will be THRILLED. The problem is that he will be asking for, and would get, 3-4 million a season if the fans in this forum were the GM of the team, from what I can tell. That's my issue. Hartline is very much like a Stokely, but wants to be paid like a starter/top notch player and he is not.


Say they meet in the middle and Hartline asks for 2 million dollars a year. Is that okay for you?

And for the record...Tony McDaniel takes 3 Million a year. I'd be more than happy to trade off Hartline for McDaniel and let McDaniel walk and call things a push. However I'm not sure Hartline is going to command that kind of money, I think you're overestimating his asking price a bit Merc. But thats something we'll just have to wait and see on.


I could be overestimating, but the fact is he was the "#1" WR on this team and I'm betting he is going to be looking for a nice size contract. I'd probably still pass on him at 2 million. Especially since we already have Bess. I absolutely don't think it makes ANY sense to have Bess and Hartline on the field at the same time. They are too similar and both have similar weaknesses, leaving us without a deep threat or goaline/redzone options and neither do much after the catch. I also think they give us a false sense of security. How Jeff Ireland thought it was acceptable to enter this season with basically just those two guys at our WR spots is beyond me. It essentially set Tannehill up for a crap season and the team for a losing one.

I realize why people like Hartline, but there are plenty of Hartline types out there, that would be cheaper. If Hartline wants to come back for a cheap contract and is willing to play in 3 or 4 WR sets exclusively, fine by me.
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WaterBear56


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartline will get more than Bess did. Bess is making 2.3M/year. Hartline will make 3.3-4.3M/year. That's very fair.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does Hartline rate in the NFL? is he one of the Top 40 WR? If you think he is he should earn more then 3 mil a year. I personally think he is worth it. While there are cheaper options available none have the rapport that Hartline has with Tannehill or knows knows the offense.

Whether we think he should be kept or not depends on how we view his value. He's a guy that should be rewarded for his effort and his production. I also personally believe that the passing attack only needs a true #1 and a Tight end that can make red-zone plays. I feel that if you line up A number 1 that can stretch the field, Hartline, Bess, a big play TE, and have Clay out of the backfield you are going to move the ball and score.
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