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Would you fire Ireland?
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Should S. Ross Fire Jeff Ireland?
Yes
48%
 48%  [ 14 ]
No
51%
 51%  [ 15 ]
Total Votes : 29

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dolphan9954


Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 7032
Location: Miami
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
Ireland may have been on staff for five seasons, but he has only truly called the shots for two of them. The reason most people blame Ireland I feel is because they don't know better. Miami fans are all the same, when the Heat struggle the first reaction is immediately "Fire Spo," when the Marlins struggle someone has to get fired (though in this case it is truly appropriate to call for Loria to sell.) When the Dolphins struggle it is "Fire everyone." I just hate the stigma in the sports that firing someone is going to make that big of a difference. Continuity and letting a head coach/GM tandem build a roster is what leads to success in the NFL. Philbin at this point appears to be at least competent and have a defined plan. Ireland and him appear to work pretty well together. Let them stay together for the full 3 seasons. After 3 seasons if the Dolphins have a playoff caliber roster than Ireland stays, if the Dolphins are excelling in player development and QB development as well as winning on the field Philbin stays. After 3 season together you know if Tannehill is worthy of being an NFL starter. If they aren't working (or take a MAMMOTH) step back in year two, then you blow it up. For now, Miami fans need to man up and deal with it.

I honestly blame most of the Ireland hate on that WAARF faction. Creative and funny name, but they are as bad as Jets fans mostly.


Can I just say in response to this that I also seriously dislike the inevitable & predictable assumption that people that want rid of Ireland have put no thought into it and are essentially retarded sheep who just puke out the first thing they can think of.

As far I'm aware, no one here has mentioned "blowing it up" & "firing everyone". Philbin & Tannehill have my full approval, they need help, they need talent. I do not see any reason why anyone would expect Jeff Ireland to provide that, he's failed to do so for 5 years.


Where did I say that? I'm saying MOST of the fanbases in general don't know that much about the team. The people here do. That's why they are here. If you walk around South Beach and ask random people on the street about the Dolphins (it'd be hard to find Dolphins fan to begin with) I would bet that they wouldn't know much. Questions as basic as:

Who was the Dolphins third round pick last year?
Who is the Dolphins defensive coordinator?

Then if you find some that want Ireland fired, and you ask "Why?" most couldn't answer.

A lot of people want guys fired across all sports, but the vast majority of those people cannot answer the question "why?"

Jeff Ireland has truly been calling the shots for two seasons. Bill Parcells called the shots the first 2 drafts. That has been widely reported throughout the media. I agree that if Ireland cannot bring this team the right players after this season, then his job should be thoroughly evaluated and probably replaced. Right now to much is up in the air in my eyes. Next season if Vernon, Miller, Egnew, Tannehill and his picks this year don't pan out then sure, fire him. If Marshall struggles, hold that against him. If he spends a lot of money on a FA that flops, sure blame it on him. The problem is there is way to much unknown right now.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IT's obvious that people have differing opinions on Ireland...

There are two types of fans n this arguement

1. Believe that Ireland has had only two off-seasons where he is the one making the decisions. Until Parcells left he was working for him and his vision and even after he left he was still trying to find players to work in Sporano's explosive offense.

2. Believe that his 5 year track record should speak volumes about his ability to build a team and as a result should be fired. It's taken him too long to find an answer at QB and he has missed on too many draft picks and off-season moves which had resulted in a team starved of talent.

I find myself in the former, but I can understand where people dislike comes from. I will say that I highly doubt he gets fired, Ross had enough confidence in him to to retain him for this coaching change and selection of the teams "franchise" QB and as a result will be given at least another season (if not two) to build this team according to Philbin's (and Ross') plan.

I'm a Dolphin fan and have been since I started watching football when I was 5 and I will be a Dolphin fan for as long as they are a team so regardless of what they do I will still wear my Aqua and Orange.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want stability in something. That is the only reason I would not fire Ireland. The way I see it, drafting a franchise QB makes everyone look better. It gives the defense hope and receivers look good as well. I am one of the few here who does not believe Tanney is a franchise QB. For that reason, Ireland has to continue drafting at that position until he finds one. I honestly do not care if it is a first, second or third round QB but one needs to be drafted.

The area I question Ireland the most is his ability to draft impact defensive players and QB's.
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DOLFAN016


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ovaw8lover wrote:
I just want stability in something. That is the only reason I would not fire Ireland. The way I see it, drafting a franchise QB makes everyone look better. It gives the defense hope and receivers look good as well. I am one of the few here who does not believe Tanney is a franchise QB. For that reason, Ireland has to continue drafting at that position until he finds one. I honestly do not care if it is a first, second or third round QB but one needs to be drafted.

The area I question Ireland the most is his ability to draft impact defensive players and QB's.


So Jeff Ireland needs to draft a QB because YOU don't believe Ryan Tannehill is a franchise QB? Yeah, makes sense... Rolling Eyes
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Clutch


Joined: 04 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:
Clutch wrote:
And there doesn't seem to be a contract on this team that is 'tying our hands'. If Jeff had signed some average players to bad deals then I could see there could be some trust issues with him at the controls. But so far, he seems to be doing the right thing.

As i pointed out, as much as the offense pains me to watch, our D has 1 turnover in 6 games. LB core is below average, Clemons is below average and the front 4 can't get pressure on their own. I think we maybe further away than I first thought.

In saying that, you can't build rome in a day. I would hope by the end of Free Agency and the draft that this team will have added 5 good/great players. I know it is optimistic but we probably need 3 on offense and another 2 on defense, just to contend for a playoff spot. If you want to compete for a division, we are probably 7-8 good/great players away.

2-3 olineman
3 WR/TE
1-2 LB, at least
1 CB/FS.

Before shredding me on the LB comments. Go look. 7 sacks combined. 3 forced fumbles, no fumbles recovered and no ints. Of those stats, Misi has 4 sacks and 3 Forced Fumbles.

Dansby may finish with 120 tackles but between he and Burnett, there ain't much else there. And when the topic comes up, those two seem to get a pass and the question mark is Misi.

Some will take Jake to task on his play because of his massive salary. Well the two Free Agent LB's aren't providing much of anything. And if you want to throw in the coverage of the TE, do the research. Tenn - Cook, Indy, NYJ, Cincy, NE all beat Miami.

For me, if offense is a priority in the draft, defense needs to be a priority in free agency. Our LB's maybe one of the worst units in the game at providing big plays. Gamechanging plays.

Sorry to those who I have discussed this with before. But it needs to be said to the fans who hold players accountable who are basing play on cheque size.


Clutch, I'm really confused by your stance here & in your previous posts. You (quite rightly) point out the underwhelming mediocrity of the personnel & how we have below average talent all over the field, yet you seem to reject outright the concept that the talent evaluator acquiring the players is not doing his job well and he deserves to draft & sign more players.

I'm with Merc on this 100%. I would so love to be wrong, but I have seen zero evidence that Jeff Ireland is going to improve this team. The idea of him taking charge of this next draft where we are more loaded with picks than usual is quite disturbing.


Look, I am a believer that this has been Irelands team for 2 seasons/drafts. I have stated whom he drafted and what my thoughts are on the players he drafted or signed as Free Agents. Losing Ocho for the season didn't help Tannehill.

So far Ireland hasn't attached us to many 'killer contracts'. He has avoided those. The only player, to this point, that he has drafted that seems like a stud is Pouncey. Its pretty tough to judge this draft but by next season we better see some pretty good players.

He has rid himself of some headaches (Marshall and Davis and Ocho to a certain extent) and in the process landed some assets for those players. He has given himself some cap flexibility as well. So now he should be fairly judged. He now has all options at his disposal with a young potential 'franchise' qb in his holster. The bullseye is squarely on him going forward.

Ireland needs to have a good offseason in 2013. There can be no excuses. If his top 3 FA/Draft picks get hurt for the year, too bad.

My second reason for keeping him for at least another season is continuity. Forcing us to find a GM who has the same philosophy as Philbin/Tannehill severly limits the process. If you are going to find a new GM, find the best one available. If you do that, you could be changing the coach and qb fairly soon after too as they won't be 'his guys'.

Firing someone doesn't change anything on the field. And there are no guarantees the new GM drafts/signs any better than Ireland. Expcept he changes the philosophy. Mike Dantoni of the Lakers was brought into get the ship righted from Mike Brown. It hasn't worked.....so far.

And remember, when Tannehill was drafted, Todd McShay said it would take him 4-5 years to reach the elite potential. Now some fans are questioning if he has the 'it' factor. I believe he does, but he is limited in his playing time at the position and in the skill players around him. That is not a good combo. I do agree that we should draft a qb every year in the later rounds until you have the elite guy you are looking for. Kolb netted the Eagles a 2nd round pick and didn't KC give up a 1st for Cassel?

Anyways, the Fins may feel it is best to get another Chef, but I think at this time Ireland has made moves for this coming offseason. He best hit with his Free Agents/Draft picks or this could be it for him.

One guy I hope Ireland signs. Tony Gonzalez. Look what he has done for Matt Ryan. And having a winning presence in the locker room has a ripple down effect on the whole team, especially the young players. You have to have a few of these guys. Could we get Ed Reed on the D side?
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a fundamental i don't really respect requests to fire GMs and coaches unless you have a Hire request to go with it. And it would even be better if it came with a plan moving forward.

The needs here are so glaring. There will be a committee of position coaches and front office personnel will be analyzing this scenario.

DE for the other side.
Guards
Skill position weapons etc.

No firing necessary.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
On a fundamental i don't really respect requests to fire GMs and coaches unless you have a Hire request to go with it..


It doesn't take a lot of study to know that the Dolphins stink and have stunk since Ireland came to town. It does take some insight and study to name someone new for the position that might work out. One does not need to know how to fix a problem to know there is a problem.

Beyond that, I would START my new GM search with the name: Scott Pioli. It sounds like he may be done in KC. I also have long been a fan of Randy Mueller. While he has technically been in Miami previously, he was here when Nick Saban was coach and Saban's job description explicitly indicated that Saban made all player personnel decisions.

Beyond, those two relatively big names, I also like these names: Mike Lombardi, and a long shot, but I guy I've read a bit about and has a Joe Philbin connection, John Dorsey. Pioli and Dorsey are the guys I'd probably have the most interest in. Dorsey is the head of scouting in GB, and he certainly knows how to find WR talent in later rounds. Plus, he and Philbin have a track record of working together and both have helped build the offense that is what we are modeling ourselves after in Miami.

Plenty of options. However, as I said, its not hard to see what is not working, but its a harder task to find something that will. That does not, however, mean we should not be looking.
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Mercury22


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of other options I failed to mention above:

Russ Ball, Packers VP of football administration/player finance: Known as a good people person with an ability to manage, Ball has overseen the Packers cap since 2008 and has 23 years of NFL experience with five teams. He actually got his start as a strength coach. That diversity of experience, his association with a championship program and his relationship with Joe Philbin makes him an intriguing candidate.

Nick Caserio, Patriots director of player personnel: The 36-year-old has quickly become one of the most respected personnel guys on the circuit, with steely focus and drive, and worked extensively on the coaching side as well during the Patriots' championship years. As one GM said, "He gets it." That likely would be apparent in an interview setting, but it won't be easy to pry him from Bill Belichick's side.

Lastly, I've heard it rumored that Ernie Accorsi could be lured out of retirement to come back. Not my first choice, but like many I've mentioned here, I believe he would be better than Ireland.
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
On a fundamental i don't really respect requests to fire GMs and coaches unless you have a Hire request to go with it..


It doesn't take a lot of study to know that the Dolphins stink and have stunk since Ireland came to town. It does take some insight and study to name someone new for the position that might work out. One does not need to know how to fix a problem to know there is a problem.

Beyond that, I would START my new GM search with the name: Scott Pioli. It sounds like he may be done in KC. I also have long been a fan of Randy Mueller. While he has technically been in Miami previously, he was here when Nick Saban was coach and Saban's job description explicitly indicated that Saban made all player personnel decisions.

Beyond, those two relatively big names, I also like these names: Mike Lombardi, and a long shot, but I guy I've read a bit about and has a Joe Philbin connection, John Dorsey. Pioli and Dorsey are the guys I'd probably have the most interest in. Dorsey is the head of scouting in GB, and he certainly knows how to find WR talent in later rounds. Plus, he and Philbin have a track record of working together and both have helped build the offense that is what we are modeling ourselves after in Miami.

Plenty of options. However, as I said, its not hard to see what is not working, but its a harder task to find something that will. That does not, however, mean we should not be looking.


sounds a bit heavy handed to me. Up until this year he was forced to build a team one way. To say this team sucks right now may be accurate but it doesn't tell the whole story. In the early stages even chocolate tastes bitter.
If I like my coach and the system he runs. I like the QB and his skill set. I like the atmosphere in the locker room. How can I fire the GM that put it all together.
The problem is we taste the chocolate in it's bitter stages and keep throwing it out. We always stay in the bitter stages.

Ultimately, I'm saying it's a timing thing. If he was a real problem, he should have left with Sparano. But keeping him says that you don't see him as an issue. Firing him now says we are still headed in the wrong direction and that means coach has to go as well.
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Judson49


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphinologist wrote:
Mercury22 wrote:
dolphinologist wrote:
On a fundamental i don't really respect requests to fire GMs and coaches unless you have a Hire request to go with it..


It doesn't take a lot of study to know that the Dolphins stink and have stunk since Ireland came to town. It does take some insight and study to name someone new for the position that might work out. One does not need to know how to fix a problem to know there is a problem.

Beyond that, I would START my new GM search with the name: Scott Pioli. It sounds like he may be done in KC. I also have long been a fan of Randy Mueller. While he has technically been in Miami previously, he was here when Nick Saban was coach and Saban's job description explicitly indicated that Saban made all player personnel decisions.

Beyond, those two relatively big names, I also like these names: Mike Lombardi, and a long shot, but I guy I've read a bit about and has a Joe Philbin connection, John Dorsey. Pioli and Dorsey are the guys I'd probably have the most interest in. Dorsey is the head of scouting in GB, and he certainly knows how to find WR talent in later rounds. Plus, he and Philbin have a track record of working together and both have helped build the offense that is what we are modeling ourselves after in Miami.

Plenty of options. However, as I said, its not hard to see what is not working, but its a harder task to find something that will. That does not, however, mean we should not be looking.


sounds a bit heavy handed to me. Up until this year he was forced to build a team one way. To say this team sucks right now may be accurate but it doesn't tell the whole story. In the early stages even chocolate tastes bitter.
If I like my coach and the system he runs. I like the QB and his skill set. I like the atmosphere in the locker room. How can I fire the GM that put it all together.
The problem is we taste the chocolate in it's bitter stages and keep throwing it out. We always stay in the bitter stages.

Ultimately, I'm saying it's a timing thing. If he was a real problem, he should have left with Sparano. But keeping him says that you don't see him as an issue. Firing him now says we are still headed in the wrong direction and that means coach has to go as well.


I have to say I disagree. People seem to get caught up in this mythical idea that the GM & Coach are joined at the hip. I see Joe Philbin & Jeff Ireland as individuals doing separate jobs with one united goal. Now if Joe Philbin's vision can't be attained because Jeff Ireland can't provide him the requisite talent, why does it need to be a clean house?

I don't buy (or accept) this idea that Jeff Ireland had some sort of under the thumb relationship to last year whereby he was enforced to go & assemble a collection of huge, slow average players. Just because Bill Parcells was in Miami if Jeff Ireland couldn't speak up about or see the need for his roster to get faster & more athletic then why should he get a pass for that? It certainly hasn't snuck up on anyone.

Not to mention that while it seems we want to give him credit for Philbin's philosophy & Tannehill's potential the reality is the Dolphins went all out for Peyton Manning & Jeff Fisher (not exactly a forward thinking progressive offensive mind).

Dolphinologist - Are you saying that you think personally that retaining Ireland when Sparano got canned was the right move or are you saying that as Ross stuck with him they should continue to?
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dolphinologist


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judson49 wrote:

Dolphinologist - Are you saying that you think personally that retaining Ireland when Sparano got canned was the right move or are you saying that as Ross stuck with him they should continue to?


I'm saying that Ross made a statement that retaining Ireland was the right move. No one not named Ross can say for a certainty who should be held responsible for the Parcells years. Ross told the world that Ireland was not the problem.
So from the time Philbin was hired til' now is the time frame I'm using to judge Ireland. ANd I've seen nothing worth firing him. He's letting Philbin control the groceries.

Brandon Marshall is an idiot. You can't transfer production. That's a different world and a different QB in Chicago. Brandon Marshall is not the only answer at WR. And I can fully understand a coach and gm not wanting him around a rookie QB.

We have picks and money to spend. I give Ireland credit for that as well.
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skatewood2


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been an Ireland supporter for quite some time now and I am not changing my stance. I agree with dolphinologist that you can't really fire him for what he has done this season. He went out and got the players that Philbin wanted and is trying to change the culture of this team to match what his new HC wants. That is probably why we have not seen any contract talks with Jake Long. He did get rid of Marshall for as much as he could get, does anyone really think that he would be putting up the numbers here that he is putting up in Chicago? He dropped more TD's than he caught here and just didn't flat out play like he is in Chicago. That tells me he didn't really want to be here as much as we wanted him here. I think this offseason will be Ireland's make or break offseason. If he can continue to get the type of players that Philbin wants and improve this team than I am all for him staying. If he starts squandering the money/picks he has built up then I am all for letting him go. Let's remember that we were holding onto some pretty heavy contracts the last couple of years and Ireland has cleared them all out and set us up with some very nice draft picks. He needs this offseason to prove that he belongs with this organization IMO.
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DolphWins


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont think he will be fired or should be, looking back at what we have gotten in the past year. Good new coach, rookie QB who looks promising and a pretty darn good defense just missing a piece or two.

If we come out and stink next year or if our draft picks are horribly bad, i could possibly see Ireland getting let go, but I think it would take 2 more bad years for that to happen.
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Dolphinemidget


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mercury22 wrote:
If I were king, Ireland would have been fired the moment he let Brandon Marshall go. So yes, please, by all means, fire him.


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Clutch


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When was the last time the Fins had the following:

A young qb that you can start to build around
Cap room (45+ mill)
Picks - 5? in the first 3 rounds

Now whether he lasts or not, whomever is taking the position is coming into to a pretty good spot. So at the very least Ireland will get credit for pushing the Fins in the right direction.

You can't fault him for that. Now if he whiffs on Free Agency and the draft, then I can see him being let go. But it won't be because of the structure of his strategy. It will be because of scouting and ultimately him pulling the trigger this offseason.

Lets just say if he were close to cap hell, no real picks besides our own and a 6-10 team I may have a different stance.

Now the question, can he hit on the offseason. If he does well, this team will make the playoffs. If not, he probably loses his job. Pretty simple.
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