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Are we blaming Chan for not running into more 8 man fronts?
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don4593


Joined: 27 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Are we blaming Chan for not running into more 8 man fronts? Reply with quote

I dont understand this logic. Maybe this rationale is not as prevalent on this forum, but this thought process is acknowledged by most. I feel like too many people are looking at the stat line and seeing 7 carries for Spiller instead of looking at what was goign on in the game. The Rams were strictly playing Cover 1 and Cover 0 all game, formations that leave their secondaries pretty thin. In theory, one should be able to pass all over this formation because there would be 8 men in the box. This is what the Rams were doing and this is also what the Bills were playing as their base. Only one difference, Rams were able to throw over the top on ours.

Are we going to blame Chan for not trying to abuse the Rams' weakness? Is it his fault Ryan Fitzpatrick wildy overthrows/underthrows his WRs on any pass over 20 yards? We have a one dimensional QB, once teams take away his short game (passing and running) the game is over because Fitzpatrick just embarassingly misses his WRs. Even last week when he connected with TJ Graham on that deep pass. He underthrow him pretty badly, but Graham had the DB beat by a good margin to adjust, otherwise Graham is walking into the endzone.


Rams on the other hand were faced with the same challenges the Bills presented them. We were practically begging them to beat us with the pass. We were committing heavily to stopping the run early in the count and they did, they beat us over the top. They caught us playing Cover 1 down at the Rams' goaline and the WR beat Gilmore and our safety could not get over in time. Do you think Jeff Fisher said...hmm Sjax only has x amount of carries and they are playing 8 in the box, we must try to run? No. They took what the defense was giving them.

Difference is, Bradford can make those throws, Fitzpatrick cannot.

Bottom line is we need a QB who can at least threaten to make those throws. A QB who could force the defense to break from playing Cover 1. Fitz is great at moving around in the pocket thwarting a blitz attempt, but outside of that his skills do not match that of a starting caliber QB.
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I am blaming Chan. We have a legit RB with elite talent (no he is not an elite RB, yet). CJ Spiller should get more carries, even if the opposing D knows we are running the ball. The Vikings are constantly running the ball against 8 and sometimes 9 in the box. Yes, I know AD is awesome and no I am not comparing CJ Spiller to him. But this point is that if you have a RB who has elite talent and can break games wide open why not get him the ball more?

Also, I agree we need a QB who can go down field, however unless we can get Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson, we would have to pick a QB who can sit behind a vet (be it Fitz, Vick or TJax) and learn. Even with Geno/Tyler I would still want them to sit for a year and learn the system.
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don4593


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure Minnesota is a fair comparison, though. They have some true road graders up front. They have the personel capable of such. I feel like our line is more of a finesse and technique. Even still, we have to look at Fred Jackson, too because he did get a bulk of the carries...so it is not like we just ran it 7 times. We ran it 38% of the time, usually we are between 45% and 50%, but then again, a defense could dictate that percentage. More importantly 50% of the touches were by run or passes to Fred Jackson or CJ Spiller.
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not as big of a Fred Jackson fan as a lot of Bills fans are. I still believe that CJ Spiller should be getting more touches than Fred Jackson.

I mean look at that screen in the first quarter, it looked like CJ was going to get stuffed for a little gain then he bounced it outside and broke a solid gain off.

CJ should be the main focus of the offense with Fred Jackson being the compliment. If we ran the ball more it would open the play action up which would allow Fitz to get the ball to Stevie and Chandler.
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don4593


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I wish they would give Spiller a bigger share of the carries, but considering they split the series one could be a victim of circumstance being in a particular situation. Recent fumbles aside, FJax has still been highly productive. A year removed from an MVP type year nonethless. It's hard to just stop giving him the ball completely given that Fred Jackson is also a respected member of the team and a captain
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true. But now that Freddy is out 2-3 weeks with an MCL Sprain, Chan should look to make CJ the work horse. We have 3 tough games and 2 AFCE teams. We might be out of the playoffs but we can still should something the next 3 games.

God I hope we beat NYJ and Miami. Seattle will be a tough game but it should be fun to watch!
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don4593 wrote:
Agreed. I wish they would give Spiller a bigger share of the carries, but considering they split the series one could be a victim of circumstance being in a particular situation. Recent fumbles aside, FJax has still been highly productive. A year removed from an MVP type year nonethless. It's hard to just stop giving him the ball completely given that Fred Jackson is also a respected member of the team and a captain

I don't think most here want to see Fred benched the whole game, but we would rather see the split in carries favor CJ slightly. Myself, in a game with 28 rushes for example, I'd like to see Spiller running it 15-18 times, with the rest going to Jackson. However, for many of the games this season, the opposite seems to be true. That's frustrating when you realize Spiller leads the league is YPC. Now, others might get outraged over Spiller running just 4 times per quarter, but I like our slightly undersized version of Thunder & Lightning and understand that they both are and can be effective the whole game if they share the load.
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swolfdab


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're blaming Chan for sticking with Fitzpatrick, who consistently makes bad throws/decisions. It's bad play calling, yes, but Fitz is the one out there playing the game. Why doesn't he audible out of those sets and into a set that will beat the loaded box? He's supposed to be a wizard, football knowledge-wise, but I don't see any pre-snap adjustments whatsoever.

Bottom-line is that they are both painfully average in every aspect of their respective areas.
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NIKEJWN


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing that wasnt mentioned is that Spiller had a 5.3 avg on those 7 carries. I understand the 8 man box, but its been a common theme all season that he goes away from the run to much. You have to give your studs the ball no matter what the front are at least you make this defense respect the pass and then you can hit them with some play action at some point.
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BillsGuy82


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm placing a lot of blame on Gailey, most teams put the game in hands of elite talent when leading. QB play is also a major issue, our defense is a lot closer with recent play as well.

We need a HC and let him get his QB.!! That might also lure better HC.
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don4593


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly think if we took the approach to ground and pound St. Louis would have acted accordingly. Sure, Spiller could have broken one, but he has that same chance getting him open in space on pass, and the same goes for Jackson.

Bottom line is St. Louis was giving us the pass and Fitzpatrick couldn't execute. If he could, we wouldnt even be having this conversation.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chan is the person to blame and he needs to go. I just dont understand the front office for not making it known that he is gone. If he stays this is going to get as ugly as the Juaron era. Look at his record the last 3 years. Look at his play calling he has been makin and look at his players he is playing over some. Yes it is well known that FJax was in the game more and I like him but Spiller has been a game changer. Everytime he is in the game and gets the ball he turns negative or 0 yd plays in to first downs. You can see the consistance of the playing through out the game everytime. Spiller needs to be in 80-85% of plays. Chans offense is way to vanilla and needs to have some sort of spark and he just doesnt have the creative mind to do it.

It is time to fire Gailey and find someone else. Also Nix should start letting Whaley take over some of his dutys as he is getting up there in age and Whaley is a young potentially top GM in the league and he will get snatched up by another organization if the bills dont give him the title he deserves.
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don4593


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't disagree more.

Gailey has made Fitz servicable and people expected more and Fitz to keep improving. He limitedness as a QB can only take us so far. Chan's creative playcalling can only disguise his weaknesses so much. What we need is a QB who can beat Cover 1 and Cover 0...coverage that all he needs to do is throw an accurate pass over 20 yards. Fitz SADLY cannot do this
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don4593 wrote:
I couldn't disagree more.

Gailey has made Fitz servicable and people expected more and Fitz to keep improving. He limitedness as a QB can only take us so far. Chan's creative playcalling can only disguise his weaknesses so much. What we need is a QB who can beat Cover 1 and Cover 0...coverage that all he needs to do is throw an accurate pass over 20 yards. Fitz SADLY cannot do this


He made Fitz serviceable in 2010 and the beginning of 2011, but Fitz has largely regressed since. The entire team has. Gailey needs to go, but will he is another question.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
don4593 wrote:
I couldn't disagree more.

Gailey has made Fitz servicable and people expected more and Fitz to keep improving. He limitedness as a QB can only take us so far. Chan's creative playcalling can only disguise his weaknesses so much. What we need is a QB who can beat Cover 1 and Cover 0...coverage that all he needs to do is throw an accurate pass over 20 yards. Fitz SADLY cannot do this


He made Fitz serviceable in 2010 and the beginning of 2011, but Fitz has largely regressed since. The entire team has. Gailey needs to go, but will he is another question.

On the offensive side of the ball, creativity is something I don't worry about from Chan. Frankly, I think he has been pretty creative running out of spread formations and as Don said, given Fitz's arm, has done a pretty good job getting the most out that arm as possible. My problem with Chan is his passing to open up the running game (with our OL, RB's, & marginal D, I'd rather see run 1st), giving too many carries to Fred as opposed to Spiller, his odd calls he forces instead of just letting the offense execute the basic play, the wildcat which is worthless if you never pass out of it, and finally his low energy level which I believe the team mirrors far too often. I think he would be better suited as simply an OC...kind of like Norv Turner should be IMHO.
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