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If we had the #1 overall pick
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Not the worse. Definitely better than drafts of 07' and 08'. Teams being desperate for qbs and DTs should be in our favor. There's possible 2 quarterbacks will go before us, so that's 12 picks. There will be a cb off before us for sure (dee milliner) so that's 11 now. Including DTs which are Star Lotelulei, Jonathan Hankins, and Jonathan jenkins who could go before us... 8 left. Manti Te'o, Jarvis Jones, Bjoern Werner, and [emarcus Moore... then you have prospects like Luke Joeckel and Taylor Lewman, even maybe Chase Warmack. This draft is very broaden and there shouldn't be a reach pick for us.

Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter, Jonathan Banks, Xavier Rhodes, Dion Jordan, and maybe other quarterback, some prospects will go in front of us but unlikely in past we will actually won't have a clear 1st round pick until steelers decide on a prospect. It truly will be exciting.


See this is when I see the Steelers getting a player like Dion Jordan or B. Mingo a player with upside. Those type of players really scare me.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Not the worse. Definitely better than drafts of 07' and 08'. Teams being desperate for qbs and DTs should be in our favor. There's possible 2 quarterbacks will go before us, so that's 12 picks. There will be a cb off before us for sure (dee milliner) so that's 11 now. Including DTs which are Star Lotelulei, Jonathan Hankins, and Jonathan jenkins who could go before us... 8 left. Manti Te'o, Jarvis Jones, Bjoern Werner, and [emarcus Moore... then you have prospects like Luke Joeckel and Taylor Lewman, even maybe Chase Warmack. This draft is very broaden and there shouldn't be a reach pick for us.

Keenan Allen, Justin Hunter, Jonathan Banks, Xavier Rhodes, Dion Jordan, and maybe other quarterback, some prospects will go in front of us but unlikely in past we will actually won't have a clear 1st round pick until steelers decide on a prospect. It truly will be exciting.


I'll be somewhat surprised if Hankins is gone before us. I'll be shocked if Jenkins goes anywhere in the 1st round. Joeckel will probably be gone, and I bet either Matthews or Lewan are still there, probably Warmack.

I'm really interested in this draft, as it has a ton of "10-20th pick" type of talent, yet very little true top 5-10 talent, so the teams in the top 10 or so will be drafting based on need almost exclusively. That could force teams to reach on QBs and hopefully OTs

truth be told, I wouldn't be opposed to us going for a guy like Lewan or Warmack if (when) Moore, Milliner, and Lotulelei are off the board at our pick
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, exactly kethnaab.

Unknown commodity can be a good thing. Personally I got every picks right since 07' (even mendenhall pick) and that's just saying our needs now are stretched to different paths... it become more sufficient that we are likely th draft the best player among those needs... that's a great thing.

I'm not too sure about Jenkins and Hankins being on board even when our pick come up. DTs have beome a high demand as well, this is the best DTs class we have seen for long time so it is quite possible for teams to bite those perks.

However about us drafting the best play among our needs, I'm still not sure. I have took some notices among the trend of our 1st rounds- we had let go our weapons, primarily because we couldn't afford them so I see that Kevin Colbert investing into the trench because those players even at 1st round grades, are vitally cheaper than the cost we have over other positions. It surely seem like a safe blanket for Colbert, to strategically get out of the cap hell. It is quite genius for a GM to do that but hopefully they break the bank this year because we need it.
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kethnaab


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they didn't cut Ta'amu loose.

They might see him as the answer.

it'll be pretty interesting if they go, yet again, with DL in the first round.
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Steelers22


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll be pretty unhappy if we do defensive line again the first round. We have some young guys that can step up and play. Harrison is, most likely, going to be gone, Clark and troy may have another year or two with us but not much more than that so I think it is absolutely vital we get a pass rusher in the first round or I would also be ok with ILB or a Safety if the opportunity presented itself.

Our team is extremely vulnerable heading into next season. We have a lot of pieces we need to replace so our first round pick shouldn't be spent on something that isn't a glaring need
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AlanFanecaFan


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
AlanFanecaFan wrote:
I expect Wallace to leave...if he does WR is a top 3 need.


Not even top 5.

Im not saying I wouldnt take a WR in the first 3 rounds if the talent was there, but Brown, Sanders, Cotchery is still a better trio than most of the league...and Brown and Sanders still have upside as they arent even in their prime yet.

No chance in hell its a bigger need than S, OLB, ILB, NT, and you can even argue RB, CB and OLine.


Steelers draft for a year ahead...Brown will be only WR under contract after 2013.

Sanders has a lot of talent but hasn't put it together yet and is only under a tender next year.

They will need another vertical threat.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlanFanecaFan wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
AlanFanecaFan wrote:
I expect Wallace to leave...if he does WR is a top 3 need.


Not even top 5.

Im not saying I wouldnt take a WR in the first 3 rounds if the talent was there, but Brown, Sanders, Cotchery is still a better trio than most of the league...and Brown and Sanders still have upside as they arent even in their prime yet.

No chance in hell its a bigger need than S, OLB, ILB, NT, and you can even argue RB, CB and OLine.


Steelers draft for a year ahead...Brown will be only WR under contract after 2013.

Sanders has a lot of talent but hasn't put it together yet and is only under a tender next year.

They will need another vertical threat.


They draft a year ahead when they have the flexibility to do so. Thats not the case this year.

In 2007, when we lost Porter and Haggans and Foote were sucking, we drafted two LBs.

In 2008, when Parker hurt his foot at the end of the year, we drafted Mendy.

In 2010, when center was an apparent top need, we drafted Pouncey.

This year, we drafted a top need in DeCastro.

They draft for immediate needs when they have one.

This year, they may have a few, especially if Harrison and Hampton walk.

They may like McClendon at NT going forward. I doubt.

Nothing Worlids has shown should make them comfortable with him being the starting OLB next to Pouncey.

WR next year we have Brown, Sanders and Cotch.

Could we use another vertical threat? Yes...but WR is a luxury pick...at least compared to other needs, which are easily more dire. At least we have young talent at WR. If they take WR earily, it will tell me they arent sold on Sanders being a possible starter, but I dont think thats the case.

I see a late round flyer or possible mid rounder for a WR.....definitely not the first 3 rounds though. Impossible? No, but very unlikely.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
They draft a year ahead when they have the flexibility to do so. Thats not the case this year.

In 2007, when we lost Porter and Haggans and Foote were sucking, we drafted two LBs.

In 2008, when Parker hurt his foot at the end of the year, we drafted Mendy.

In 2010, when center was an apparent top need, we drafted Pouncey.

This year, we drafted a top need in DeCastro.

They draft for immediate needs when they have one.

This year, they may have a few, especially if Harrison and Hampton walk.

They may like McClendon at NT going forward. I doubt.

Nothing Worlids has shown should make them comfortable with him being the starting OLB next to Pouncey.

WR next year we have Brown, Sanders and Cotch.

Could we use another vertical threat? Yes...but WR is a luxury pick...at least compared to other needs, which are easily more dire. At least we have young talent at WR. If they take WR earily, it will tell me they arent sold on Sanders being a possible starter, but I dont think thats the case.

I see a late round flyer or possible mid rounder for a WR.....definitely not the first 3 rounds though. Impossible? No, but very unlikely.


The Steelers offense is trash without a deep threat the reason I believe they struggled down the stretch. They are having the same issues they were having with H. Ward. Being that outside of M. Wallace there isn't a WR on the roster who beats man coverage consistently. Wallace doesn't beat it with route running just because of his speed.

The Steelers most definitely need a explosive player either at WR or RB. With out Wallace or Mendy the Steelers are gonna have a tough time moving the ball against blitzing man to man teams.
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's completely ridiculous to say wr isn't a top 3 need considering its not exactly a good class of tight ends. Heath miller is out indefinitely, until when? We don't know. Our wide receivers, because its deep doesn't mean we are a danger to opponent.

Hypothetically, Keenan Allen is sitting by our pick, are you saying you wouldn't take him at all? 43M, think about that.
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Steelers22


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
That's completely ridiculous to say wr isn't a top 3 need considering its not exactly a good class of tight ends. Heath miller is out indefinitely, until when? We don't know. Our wide receivers, because its deep doesn't mean we are a danger to opponent.

Hypothetically, Keenan Allen is sitting by our pick, are you saying you wouldn't take him at all? 43M, think about that.


Keenan Allen will be sitting there when we pick and yes, no chance we should take him. There's no elite WR prospect and there's plenty to be had in the later rounds. Lots of big changing are looming in the off-season and our defense needs to be addressed. Ben makes our offense go and while we will have sub-par talent around him, he's good enough to make it fairly effective. I'm not opposed to a WR in round 3 or beyond but anything before that is ignoring more glaring needs
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SteelFire


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
If Steelers were one of those team that allows a player to play more of within his game, I'd be more comfortable. Steelers hasn't done that except for playing Timmons as a Joker role in Polamalu's absence. That's just a guy...

Dion Jordan is a pass-rushing specialist WHO were asked to do other things for Oregon and didn't disappointed.

In NCAA When you have size and speed, it is very easy getting to QB. In NFL, they see those kind of players and will actually scheme against that.

I disagree, Kethnaab when you mentioned that "coverage LB" doesn't scare Tom Brady and any kind of elite QBs, I get the gist of what you are trying to say. I'm saying when you have more players that can DO more things, it become harder to scheme against.

Say... Anthony Barr is on field, okay Tom Brady is seeing him, so does O-line. 80% of the time he will be pass-rushing, so Tom Brady will be counting in his head until he has to let go of the ball. So when he snaps, Barr is going into the direction of QB and the he release a ball. Now the QB drops back and see that Barr is in coverage- you bet he's going to throw to him, it's a safe bet. Elite QBs have superb recognizition for those kind of things. We have been playing more with nickel coverage, but I personally don't like that. That's like giving away your poker face even with what possible be the best cards you have, they will still gamble against you for that odds because fact being is that elite QBs will always outbest coverage. Always.

When I see Dion Jordan, I see a lot of Joey Porter in him. Can do a lot of things, making QBs calling crazy cards, pointing at Dion Jordan, Troy Polamalu, "hey hey, Timmons is coming in" and when he snap the ball, he has no clue who's coming or not until 2 seconds later. That's the advantage I see with Dion Jordan, because of what he's done at Oregon he has more to offer to the table than just pass-rushing. That is my interest. A guy his size can alternate elite qbs' throw and that can cause turnovers. Our D-line is getting bigger by heights but our LBs has to be too.

That's why I'm also more high on Chase Thomas over Anthony Barr because of the scheme Steelers employ. For me it's not about the prospect's potentials, it's about whose can fit Steelers' scheme best- also which is why I also wouldn't be very surprised to see the Steelers drafting Jesse Williams who is probably 2nd round prospect for many teams.

As I mentioned in other post, kethnaab, I personally like Anthony Barr, I do. I just don't know how we will utilitize him under the scheme we employ. Until the change occur, I got to wait you know?

I love this discussion! I really like this, this throw many curveballs, making me re-do my evaluation on Dion Jordan and I'm still on board.

Other random thought; what if Luke Joeckel fall to us? Do we take him? I know some like Lewman and also assume we wouldn't take a tackle but it'd be nice to give our O-line best 5 men as possible as we may let Willie Colon go and Max Starks probably will be released, then signed again. Our O-line have shown that we can play with combo of either Pouncey-Legursky, Foster-Pouncey between left interior linemen as we are waiting for DeCastro's debut. Joeckel start to look like a better prospect than Kalil was and has more lean to his body to handle bigger pass-rushers.

I have some thought about Chase Warmack, but bottom-line is that it's ridiculous to have three first rounds for just interior linemen where tackles are supposed to be invested more. Way I see it, I thought we could try this combo if it succeed (this is IF we get Joeckel or doesn't) Luke Joeckel/Max Starks-Marcus Gilbert-Maurkice Pouncey-David DeCastro-Mike Adams



I love all this talk. Really interesting. Could you see the Steelers changing schemes with their current players on D?
Thoughts??
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll agree to disagree.

I'm not quite in favor of drafting a receiver early on but with how our offense underperformed... questions have fallen upon them. Without heath miller and possible mike wallace are you truly comfortable with sanders and brown duo? I am not.

Keenan allen is an elite receiver just not your regular elite (I.E. andre johnson, fitzgerald, or Megatron) but Keenan Allen goes after the ball aggressive. He's in mold of Terrell Owens,or a mature version of Dez Bryant as I put it. He offer many things that none of our receivers have.

I'm not going to suggest we get him, but we ought to look for that kind of impact very soon. I'm okay with Da'Rick Rogers later on. Marquise Wilson even but like I mentioned, because the corp is deep, doesn't mean its not upgradable.

With this draft I honestly want us to get a prospect that is a huge upgrade over a position we have.

To answer your question, Steelersfire- no. Honestly no. We should adapt differently a little bit but we won't.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
That's completely ridiculous to say wr isn't a top 3 need considering its not exactly a good class of tight ends. Heath miller is out indefinitely, until when? We don't know. Our wide receivers, because its deep doesn't mean we are a danger to opponent.

Hypothetically, Keenan Allen is sitting by our pick, are you saying you wouldn't take him at all? 43M, think about that.


You said absolutely nothing that validates WR as a top 3 need.

And Ive said numerous times if the value is good enough, Im open to pretty much any position. That doesnt mean WR is a top 3 or 5 need.
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Debateable...

None of our receiver has surpass 900 receiving yards yet, with heath miller being out indefinitely and mike wallace is likely to walk, both combines for over 1,600 receiving yards.

Statistic is inflated because of course, more players will get more PT.

However now supposely one of wide receiver goes down? Dare I say Antonio Brown or Emmanuel Sanders? The position is undervalued and I sure don't want a speedy wr anymore. We need different dimension to this aerial attack.

If the lacking of threat at any receiver position isn't valid enough for you, 43M then I don't suppose I ought to bring up any more reasons that's better than this.
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Steelers22


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Debateable...

None of our receiver has surpass 900 receiving yards yet, with heath miller being out indefinitely and mike wallace is likely to walk, both combines for over 1,600 receiving yards.

Statistic is inflated because of course, more players will get more PT.

However now supposely one of wide receiver goes down? Dare I say Antonio Brown or Emmanuel Sanders? The position is undervalued and I sure don't want a speedy wr anymore. We need different dimension to this aerial attack.

If the lacking of threat at any receiver position isn't valid enough for you, 43M then I don't suppose I ought to bring up any more reasons that's better than this.



Personally, I think you raise a point that's valid no doubt. The offense does need a play maker but I think we need a pass rushers first and foremost. After that, anything is fair game and the main reason I would be so opposed to picking somebody like Allen in the first is because the WR's this year are all bunched up together and not one sticks out. We could get a pass rusher in round 1 and I'm sure either Terrance Williams, Tavon Austin, Justin Hunter, Patterson (somebody that, arguably, may not be as good as Allen but has a higher ceiling) will be there in round 2 for us to snatch up if they want to go that route
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