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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
jebrick wrote:
At some point, in the near future, the Steelers will not be able to push the player cost forward any more and then youth will be served.


Not if the TV deals kick in in the near future.

But due to players simply getting older, this team will get young soon.
next year, right? 2014

I think they are a team in transition. I thought that before the season, too bad 2 young pieces on offense look like they want out! Mendy and Wallace and Miller tore up his knee... Sad

Before the season, I was counting on them getting long term deals and just focus on reloading an aging D.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
jebrick wrote:
At some point, in the near future, the Steelers will not be able to push the player cost forward any more and then youth will be served.


Not if the TV deals kick in in the near future.

But due to players simply getting older, this team will get young soon.
next year, right? 2014

I think they are a team in transition. I thought that before the season, too bad 2 young pieces on offense look like they want out! Mendy and Wallace and Miller tore up his knee... Sad

Before the season, I was counting on them getting long term deals and just focus on reloading an aging D.


I'm hoping both Wallace and Mendy can some how be retained.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Worilds has a lot of critics because of his play. Next season could be a year where he steps up and makes a difference. If he doesn't he'll be another wasted 2nd round pick. Leaving the Steelers scrambling for a successor at ROLB.


They should be scrambling for a successor at OLB right now.

You can give me the spill about Worlids deserving a year as a starter to prove himself, but no...he doesnt deserve that at all. He is poor against the run and cant beat a tackle. He has shown ABSOLUTELY NO GROWTH as a player in his time here. At least with Timmons earlier in his career, he was very good as a situational pass rusher, especially from the interior, and he improved every single year from 2007 to 2010.

Worlids does nothing particularly well. He has an explosive first step, but that alone isnt going to get him anywhere.

Worlids should have the opportunity to COMPETE next year, but no way in hell should they feel comfortable with him as a starter. They need to get someone in the draft or free agency. If they just hand the job to Worlids like they did with Jon Scott and Willie Colon, they deserve to get screwed over just like they did in those two cases.


I liken Worilds to Deshea Townsend. Your never gonna know what talent Worilds has unless he starts and plays. Its hard to justify how well a player plays based off of only small sample sizes. Worilds this season for a while was playing better then Harrison and Woodley. I mean that's not saying much as Timmons lead the team in sacks, but Worilds did show flashes.

43, we aren't going to agree on this and I understand that.


a) Townsend was one of the smartest players we ever had. What held him back is his lack of athleticism. I always said if we took DeShea's brains and put them in Ike's body, we would have the perfect corner.

b) The only time Worlids outplayed Woodley and Harrison is when they werent even on the field. And please dont bring up sacks, because they are misleading. Ask keth about Worlids sacks. He'll tell ya.

There is no comparison between Worlid and Harrison or Worlids and DeShea. Both of them showed major skills their entire career but it took awhile to put together. There is absolutely nothing about Worlids game that is impressive....unless you think getting a free shot at the QB is impressive.

And this isnt a matter of opinion, really. I mean, if you like Worlids, THAT'S a matter of opinion, but when talking about if Worlids has earned a chance to start? The answer is unequivocally no...and if youre saying you would just hand him the job because he might be a decent starter without showing anything, then I believe you probably supported us handing the starting job to Jonathan Scott, because its the exact same thing.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Worilds has a lot of critics because of his play. Next season could be a year where he steps up and makes a difference. If he doesn't he'll be another wasted 2nd round pick. Leaving the Steelers scrambling for a successor at ROLB.


They should be scrambling for a successor at OLB right now.

You can give me the spill about Worlids deserving a year as a starter to prove himself, but no...he doesnt deserve that at all. He is poor against the run and cant beat a tackle. He has shown ABSOLUTELY NO GROWTH as a player in his time here. At least with Timmons earlier in his career, he was very good as a situational pass rusher, especially from the interior, and he improved every single year from 2007 to 2010.

Worlids does nothing particularly well. He has an explosive first step, but that alone isnt going to get him anywhere.

Worlids should have the opportunity to COMPETE next year, but no way in hell should they feel comfortable with him as a starter. They need to get someone in the draft or free agency. If they just hand the job to Worlids like they did with Jon Scott and Willie Colon, they deserve to get screwed over just like they did in those two cases.


I liken Worilds to Deshea Townsend. Your never gonna know what talent Worilds has unless he starts and plays. Its hard to justify how well a player plays based off of only small sample sizes. Worilds this season for a while was playing better then Harrison and Woodley. I mean that's not saying much as Timmons lead the team in sacks, but Worilds did show flashes.

43, we aren't going to agree on this and I understand that.


a) Townsend was one of the smartest players we ever had. What held him back is his lack of athleticism. I always said if we took DeShea's brains and put them in Ike's body, we would have the perfect corner.

b) The only time Worlids outplayed Woodley and Harrison is when they werent even on the field. And please dont bring up sacks, because they are misleading. Ask keth about Worlids sacks. He'll tell ya.

There is no comparison between Worlid and Harrison or Worlids and DeShea. Both of them showed major skills their entire career but it took awhile to put together. There is absolutely nothing about Worlids game that is impressive....unless you think getting a free shot at the QB is impressive.

And this isnt a matter of opinion, really. I mean, if you like Worlids, THAT'S a matter of opinion, but when talking about if Worlids has earned a chance to start? The answer is unequivocally no...and if youre saying you would just hand him the job because he might be a decent starter without showing anything, then I believe you probably supported us handing the starting job to Jonathan Scott, because its the exact same thing.


Nobody knew D. Townsends ability or how smart he was because he was buried on the bench for years. Not until he got on the field and began to show his talent did everybody realize that he had the mental makeup of a very good player.

I'm not saying Worilds is a cerebal assassin just that "nobody" knows what Worilds will do in a full time starters role.

I not advocating anybody hand anybody the job, but know FA/Draft pick is going to start over Worilds.

There are very few pure pass rush specialist in the league and most if not all have had plays that schemed sacks for them. Jason Worilds if ever given the chance to start will probably be a player that excels in the scheme department, similar to J. Porter.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Worilds has a lot of critics because of his play. Next season could be a year where he steps up and makes a difference. If he doesn't he'll be another wasted 2nd round pick. Leaving the Steelers scrambling for a successor at ROLB.


They should be scrambling for a successor at OLB right now.

You can give me the spill about Worlids deserving a year as a starter to prove himself, but no...he doesnt deserve that at all. He is poor against the run and cant beat a tackle. He has shown ABSOLUTELY NO GROWTH as a player in his time here. At least with Timmons earlier in his career, he was very good as a situational pass rusher, especially from the interior, and he improved every single year from 2007 to 2010.

Worlids does nothing particularly well. He has an explosive first step, but that alone isnt going to get him anywhere.

Worlids should have the opportunity to COMPETE next year, but no way in hell should they feel comfortable with him as a starter. They need to get someone in the draft or free agency. If they just hand the job to Worlids like they did with Jon Scott and Willie Colon, they deserve to get screwed over just like they did in those two cases.


I liken Worilds to Deshea Townsend. Your never gonna know what talent Worilds has unless he starts and plays. Its hard to justify how well a player plays based off of only small sample sizes. Worilds this season for a while was playing better then Harrison and Woodley. I mean that's not saying much as Timmons lead the team in sacks, but Worilds did show flashes.

43, we aren't going to agree on this and I understand that.


a) Townsend was one of the smartest players we ever had. What held him back is his lack of athleticism. I always said if we took DeShea's brains and put them in Ike's body, we would have the perfect corner.

b) The only time Worlids outplayed Woodley and Harrison is when they werent even on the field. And please dont bring up sacks, because they are misleading. Ask keth about Worlids sacks. He'll tell ya.

There is no comparison between Worlid and Harrison or Worlids and DeShea. Both of them showed major skills their entire career but it took awhile to put together. There is absolutely nothing about Worlids game that is impressive....unless you think getting a free shot at the QB is impressive.

And this isnt a matter of opinion, really. I mean, if you like Worlids, THAT'S a matter of opinion, but when talking about if Worlids has earned a chance to start? The answer is unequivocally no...and if youre saying you would just hand him the job because he might be a decent starter without showing anything, then I believe you probably supported us handing the starting job to Jonathan Scott, because its the exact same thing.


Nobody knew D. Townsends ability or how smart he was because he was buried on the bench for years. Not until he got on the field and began to show his talent did everybody realize that he had the mental makeup of a very good player.

I'm not saying Worilds is a cerebal assassin just that "nobody" knows what Worilds will do in a full time starters role.

I not advocating anybody hand anybody the job, but know FA/Draft pick is going to start over Worilds.

There are very few pure pass rush specialist in the league and most if not all have had plays that schemed sacks for them. Jason Worilds if ever given the chance to start will probably be a player that excels in the scheme department, similar to J. Porter.
i totally agree. People get down on Worilds but to me it's not warranted he's been buried behind two pro bowl OlBs for 3 years now. The team primarily only plays 2 OLBs all game long.

Yet Worilds is somehow supposed to make plays from the bench? We never know how good a player can be till given a starting job. You want another example, Keenan Lewis of last year. Antonio brown of two years ago.

I go back to Worilds production over his 3 years in the league while only having spot duty and playing behind two pro bowlers. 10 sacks in 3 years as a back up and only 10 games started in 42 games and 45 tackles in that timeframe

For those who can't do the math, that's a sack for every game started. Shocked What's not to like there? I see promise, I see something to develop.

Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
Nobody knew D. Townsends ability or how smart he was because he was buried on the bench for years. Not until he got on the field and began to show his talent did everybody realize that he had the mental makeup of a very good player.


Actually, Im pretty sure the coaches saw that.

Again, his athleticism held him back.

Quote:
I'm not saying Worilds is a cerebal assassin just that "nobody" knows what Worilds will do in a full time starters role.


Thats my point, and he has shown nothing that should make anybody comfortable with just handing him the job.

Quote:
I not advocating anybody hand anybody the job, but know FA/Draft pick is going to start over Worilds.


Depends on the FA/Draft pick and how they truly feel about Worlids.

If a FA or draft pick clearly outplayed him, of course they would. Worlids is not that good and wouldnt be that hard to beat out fo a job.

Quote:
There are very few pure pass rush specialist in the league and most if not all have had plays that schemed sacks for them. Jason Worilds if ever given the chance to start will probably be a player that excels in the scheme department, similar to J. Porter.


Now youre comparing Worlids to Porter?

Thats where I end my part in this convo before I really go off.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
Nobody knew D. Townsends ability or how smart he was because he was buried on the bench for years. Not until he got on the field and began to show his talent did everybody realize that he had the mental makeup of a very good player.


Actually, Im pretty sure the coaches saw that.

Again, his athleticism held him back.

Quote:
I'm not saying Worilds is a cerebal assassin just that "nobody" knows what Worilds will do in a full time starters role.


Thats my point, and he has shown nothing that should make anybody comfortable with just handing him the job.

Quote:
I not advocating anybody hand anybody the job, but know FA/Draft pick is going to start over Worilds.


Depends on the FA/Draft pick and how they truly feel about Worlids.

If a FA or draft pick clearly outplayed him, of course they would. Worlids is not that good and wouldnt be that hard to beat out fo a job.

Quote:
There are very few pure pass rush specialist in the league and most if not all have had plays that schemed sacks for them. Jason Worilds if ever given the chance to start will probably be a player that excels in the scheme department, similar to J. Porter.


Now youre comparing Worlids to Porter?

Thats where I end my part in this convo before I really go off.


The reason I made the comparison between the two is because of their size and athleticism. Worilds is a extremely athletic OLB more finesse then power. Which is the reason for his inability to continually be OTs.

Joey Porter had tendencies to go stretches without registering as much as a pressure during the season. But with that said Joey Porter could overwhelm a offense when he was on his game similar to the game in Oakland.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.


How would you characterize James Harrison? I know people are going to say things like he was a UDFA, but until he was given a chance there wasn't much faith in James Harrison. Especially after J. Porter was released fans where having the Steelers draft or acquire every OLB possible.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.
He's never been a starter for an entire season. All I ask for is one season that the team gives him without Harrison in front of him. Why is that too much to ask?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.


How would you characterize James Harrison? I know people are going to say things like he was a UDFA, but until he was given a chance there wasn't much faith in James Harrison. Especially after J. Porter was released fans where having the Steelers draft or acquire every OLB possible.
exactly! You can say the same for Haggans, Towsend who you mentioned, Keenan Lewis last year and brown the year before.

Until Worilds is a full time starter we won't know exactly what we have there. That time is NOW!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.


How would you characterize James Harrison? I know people are going to say things like he was a UDFA, but until he was given a chance there wasn't much faith in James Harrison. Especially after J. Porter was released fans where having the Steelers draft or acquire every OLB possible.


Harrison always showed the ability. Even LeBeau stated as much. It was his inability to follow directions. The would tell him to do one thing, and he would do another.

You keep bringing up these players who turned things around. Fair enough, but this is the problem and Ive said it before....for every Harrison type that turns it around , there are 10 Alonzo Jackson's.

Bottom line: Could Worlids step up? Sure, but based on what he has shown to this point, Steeler fans should be scared of him being a full time starter, and he is much closer to Alonzo Jackson than James Harrison.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.


How would you characterize James Harrison? I know people are going to say things like he was a UDFA, but until he was given a chance there wasn't much faith in James Harrison. Especially after J. Porter was released fans where having the Steelers draft or acquire every OLB possible.
exactly! You can say the same for Haggans, Towsend who you mentioned, Keenan Lewis last year and brown the year before.

Until Worilds is a full time starter we won't know exactly what we have there. That time is NOW!


The only player that compares in anyway to Worlids is Lewis, and only from the standpoint that Lewis was basically handed the starting job out of necessity.

However, unlike Worlids, Lewis had shown moments of pure brilliance prior to this season. He just got in Tomlin;s doghouse, but still showed the ability.

This is the question you guys keep avoiding...WHAT HAS WORLIDS SHOWN? Answer the question...PLEASE!
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.


How would you characterize James Harrison? I know people are going to say things like he was a UDFA, but until he was given a chance there wasn't much faith in James Harrison. Especially after J. Porter was released fans where having the Steelers draft or acquire every OLB possible.


Harrison always showed the ability. Even LeBeau stated as much. It was his inability to follow directions. The would tell him to do one thing, and he would do another.

You keep bringing up these players who turned things around. Fair enough, but this is the problem and Ive said it before....for every Harrison type that turns it around , there are 10 Alonzo Jackson's.

Bottom line: Could Worlids step up? Sure, but based on what he has shown to this point, Steeler fans should be scared of him being a full time starter, and he is much closer to Alonzo Jackson than James Harrison.
really? So why didn't he start over Gildon, Porter and Haggans as a young player?

Why did both the ravens and steelers cut him before the steelers kept him?

A lot of people never saw much in Harrison for 4 seasons, so much so he almost retired at the age of 26.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=3855349

Quote:
Harrison spent two years on and off the practice squad for the Steelers, being released three times, and was also briefly on the active roster towards the end of the 2002 season, playing only special teams. Teammate and fellow linebacker James Farrior later told NFL Network that Harrison was so green early on in his career that he would simply “give up” on plays he was struggling on and would even ask the coaches not to play him when he was struggling.[6] Farrior said, "He was a knucklehead that didn't know the plays. We'd be in practice, in training camp, and he might not know what he was doing so he'd just stop and throw his hands up and tell (the coaches) to get him out of there. We thought the guy was crazy."[7]
in 04 and then 05 he finally got a chance and made some plays in each season. It wasn't till Porter was gone in 07 that Harrison started to shine, with guess what? More playing time! Oh my gosh you don't say! Shocked Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
turtle28 wrote:


Some need to quit the witch hunt on one of our young players and give him at least one year to prove himself knowing he is going to be the full time starter from September on.


This is a completely ridiculous and laughable comment. There is no witch hunt for Worlids at all.

If you are fine with a guy who has never shown the ability to stop the run or beat an OT being a full time starter, then so be it. But dont act like its people hating on Worlids just because they dont want to see it.

You guys are acting like Worlids hasnt been here long and has had no opportunities.

NEWSFLASH...he is going into his 4th year and has shown very little progression and nothing in terms of being a future starter.
He's never been a starter for an entire season. All I ask for is one season that the team gives him without Harrison in front of him. Why is that too much to ask?


Turtle, the crazy thing is without any preconceived notions of who Jason Worilds is as a Steeler. If the Steelers could get Mingo, Montgomery or even Jordan in the second round fans would be estatic. Jason Worilds is equivalent to all those players.

Not going to go back and drag up old history but nobody was knocking the pick of Jason Worilds in 2009. How is a 2nd string player getting this much flack. Only a Steelers 2nd string player would get chastised without even seeing the field.
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