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DawgSoldier
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
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 Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Dropkick_pride wrote: |
And I said the browns would trade down and draft Alex Mack....
That doesn't mean that the rest of the world is wrong about Jordan...
He has a lot of potential as a pass rusher and has a lot of raw talent, but he is undeveloped technically, undersized in weight and strength, and is not a true fit in an NFL 4-3 defense at this point.
You sticking your head in the sand about that does not change anything. |
is there an echo in here? 
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Dawgpoun8017
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 9106
Location: Waterloo,NY
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dropkick_pride wrote: | | Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | Dropkick_pride wrote: | | Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | | Draft sucks pretty bad this year. Hes not on kiper's big board. I think he is fairly reputable. |
the same guy who said Andre Woodsen should be taken #1 overall, Or Jimmy Clausen would be the best QB in the draft. Kiper and Mcshay are both idiots |
Yeah those guys are idiots... They have no clue what they are talking about... And neither do h nfl scouting departments and GMs that drafted those guys... All idiots.
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they are idiots, the only draft "expert" whom has any real credibility is Mike Mayock. Kiper and Mcshay and any of the other talking heads could never be the GM of a team. I say it still again they are idiots |
I guess you should send your resume to espn, since you are that smart. |
never said I was smart but using Me Kiper or Todd Mcshay are wrong much more than they are right
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Dropkick_pride
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 9440
Location: C-bus
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | Dropkick_pride wrote: | | Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | Dropkick_pride wrote: | | Dawgpoun8017 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | | Draft sucks pretty bad this year. Hes not on kiper's big board. I think he is fairly reputable. |
the same guy who said Andre Woodsen should be taken #1 overall, Or Jimmy Clausen would be the best QB in the draft. Kiper and Mcshay are both idiots |
Yeah those guys are idiots... They have no clue what they are talking about... And neither do h nfl scouting departments and GMs that drafted those guys... All idiots.
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they are idiots, the only draft "expert" whom has any real credibility is Mike Mayock. Kiper and Mcshay and any of the other talking heads could never be the GM of a team. I say it still again they are idiots |
I guess you should send your resume to espn, since you are that smart. |
never said I was smart but using Me Kiper or Todd Mcshay are wrong much more than they are right |
I USE EVERY PUBLISHED ARTICLE THAT I CAN READ AND ALL SAY THE SAME THINGS!!! Plus, I watch the major games each week, which include 3 duck games this year.
Hahahahaha
I can't help it some here stick stick their head in the sand and pretend their draft crush is superman.
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Last edited by Dropkick_pride on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joelflynn44
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Youngstown
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| joelflynn44 wrote: | Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years. |
Agreed we won't know for a few years.
I don't care that you DP or DS don't Dion Jordan is great or not. The thing that is getting me irked is the fact that you 3(DP to a way lesser extent) are acting like its almost a forgone conclusion Dion Jordan is going to bust. I admitted in my very first post he has a certain bust rate just like any other player in the draft. I have not yet once read from DS or yourself that there is a chance Dion Jordon becomes a star player.
It seems to me DP is leaning toward 30% he hits and 70% he bust.
It seems to me you and DS are at 0% he hits and 100% he bust.
IMO I think there is a good 70-75% chance he hits to a 25% chance he bust.
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joelflynn44
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Youngstown
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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As a 4-3 rde, if all the stars aligned, i give him a 10% chance to be a stud.
In a 3-4/ nickle hybrid pass rusher i would go as high as 50%.
Ill give you he is an athletic specimen. But you got to give me he has a ton of issues getting off blocks, and needs to develop his instincts and read and react much better.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| joelflynn44 wrote: | As a 4-3 rde, if all the stars aligned, i give him a 10% chance to be a stud.
In a 3-4/ nickle hybrid pass rusher i would go as high as 50%.
Ill give you he is an athletic specimen. But you got to give me he has a ton of issues getting off blocks, and needs to develop his instincts and read and react much better. |
I will not give you getting off blocks. He is very good at using his hands to get of blocks. Infact watching all the DEs I have watched he is probably the best in the draft at getting off blocks maybe 2nd to Datone Jones.
I will give you he needs to be about to read and decifer the difference between run and pass quicker. I believe the is a problem for this entire defensive end class and not just him.
Dion Jordan has some things to work on but getting off blocks is not one of them at least when he is playing at the line of scrimmage as a pass rusher or run defender.
I have seen him down field struggle to seperate in the open field but again he is out of his element back there. What 6'7 guy do you know playing in the secondary and having to get off a block then break down in open field to make tackles?
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joelflynn44
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Youngstown
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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And kam i hope you realize we are just on opposite sides of the spectrum on this guy right now. It happens every year to those of us that truly enjoy doing our own scouting. We fall in love with some guys and hate other guys early. And that lack of middle ground is going to happen on a few prospects. But scouting is my favorite hobby. Im guessingnot its youra too.I would honestly like to get a list of prospects from this forum, and get anyone interested together to watch tape in the same room and post our combined opinions as one scouting report. Ill get the pizza, you guys bring the notebooks and pens.
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DawgSoldier
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years. |
Agreed we won't know for a few years.
I don't care that you DP or DS don't Dion Jordan is great or not. The thing that is getting me irked is the fact that you 3(DP to a way lesser extent) are acting like its almost a forgone conclusion Dion Jordan is going to bust. I admitted in my very first post he has a certain bust rate just like any other player in the draft. I have not yet once read from DS or yourself that there is a chance Dion Jordon becomes a star player.
It seems to me DP is leaning toward 30% he hits and 70% he bust.
It seems to me you and DS are at 0% he hits and 100% he bust.
IMO I think there is a good 70-75% chance he hits to a 25% chance he bust. |
No I said he was a LB not a Bust. I said he is a better fit in the 34 not a Bust. I said right now he is ranked outside the top 25 not a bust. I don't think he is worthy of 1st round pick for a 43 team, but he's not a bust.
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The Dawgpounds new three headed monster!
Adopt a Brown: QB Brandon Weeden
247/433 57% 2820yds 6.5avg 13 TD 15 Int
Last edited by DawgSoldier on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joelflynn44
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Youngstown
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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And if we do, dion jordan is going to be done last.
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ditchdigger
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 14041
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| joelflynn44 wrote: | | And if we do, dion jordan is going to be done last. |
Save him for when you're drunkest. |
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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You guys can talk scheme all you want but you cannot tell me guys like Ware, Smith, Allen, JPP, Suggs or Hali cannot succeed in any scheme. Most of those 34 linebackers rush just as much from 3 point as they do standing up.
And again I'm tell you I don't care where the guy plays he is going to make an impact. If he plays linebacker in a 43 then he will rush the passer just as much just like Derrick Thomas did just like Von Miller does and just like Julian Peterson did.
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Dropkick_pride
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 9440
Location: C-bus
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years. |
Agreed we won't know for a few years.
I don't care that you DP or DS don't Dion Jordan is great or not. The thing that is getting me irked is the fact that you 3(DP to a way lesser extent) are acting like its almost a forgone conclusion Dion Jordan is going to bust. I admitted in my very first post he has a certain bust rate just like any other player in the draft. I have not yet once read from DS or yourself that there is a chance Dion Jordon becomes a star player.
It seems to me DP is leaning toward 30% he hits and 70% he bust.
It seems to me you and DS are at 0% he hits and 100% he bust.
IMO I think there is a good 70-75% chance he hits to a 25% chance he bust. |
Honestly I think his chance of being productive in the NFL is higher than 75%....
As a 3-4 OLB I love him. He can use his athleticism in space and be very good.
As a 4-3 DE I worry about his size. If he shows at the coming weighing 245 as he is listed now no way would I touch him. He needs to be 260 plus when he is weighed and he needs to show the strength to go with it. JPP was what? 270 at the combine?
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| Thomas5737 wrote: | | EZ's acceptance of farting on nuns does not necessarily reflect the views of this sub forum. |
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4770
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Dropkick_pride wrote: | | KamTrus20 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years. |
Agreed we won't know for a few years.
I don't care that you DP or DS don't Dion Jordan is great or not. The thing that is getting me irked is the fact that you 3(DP to a way lesser extent) are acting like its almost a forgone conclusion Dion Jordan is going to bust. I admitted in my very first post he has a certain bust rate just like any other player in the draft. I have not yet once read from DS or yourself that there is a chance Dion Jordon becomes a star player.
It seems to me DP is leaning toward 30% he hits and 70% he bust.
It seems to me you and DS are at 0% he hits and 100% he bust.
IMO I think there is a good 70-75% chance he hits to a 25% chance he bust. |
Honestly I think his chance of being productive in the NFL is higher than 75%....
As a 3-4 OLB I love him. He can use his athleticism in space and be very good.
As a 4-3 DE I worry about his size. If he shows at the coming weighing 245 as he is listed now no way would I touch him. He needs to be 260 plus when he is weighed and he needs to show the strength to go with it. |
So basically we are arguing over something as minor as scheme?
Like I said before scheme is blown way out of the water. The elite guys can play 34 LB or 43 DE.
Also to be clear I do not want to draft Dion Jordan to simply play DE exlcusively. The reason why he is one of my favorites in a long time is because he can do everything much like Julian Peterson in his prime. We can hide him anywhere and everywhere. I love his versatility and simply put guys like him open sooo many avenues for your defense to attack the offense.
And as for the arguement about it taking time to become a full time DE I say there is not a single DE in this draft that would be a full time DE from day 1 here in Cleveland. Frostee Rucker is too good on 1st and 2nd down to ride the bench. We can afford to pull a SF and lets our DE be a pass rush specialist for at least a year much like they did with Aldon Smith.
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Dropkick_pride
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 9440
Location: C-bus
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| KamTrus20 wrote: | | Dropkick_pride wrote: | | KamTrus20 wrote: | | joelflynn44 wrote: | Its a crap shoot. We have all nailed picks, we have all wanted to draft guys that busted. And we have all been dead right on a guy and been laughed at for our opinion . I actually made dropkick and schutte literally [inappropriate/removed] their pants from laughter because i thought a 2nd or 3rd round prospect in december would be the best pass rusher in his draft.
He was. We wont know about jordan for two years. |
Agreed we won't know for a few years.
I don't care that you DP or DS don't Dion Jordan is great or not. The thing that is getting me irked is the fact that you 3(DP to a way lesser extent) are acting like its almost a forgone conclusion Dion Jordan is going to bust. I admitted in my very first post he has a certain bust rate just like any other player in the draft. I have not yet once read from DS or yourself that there is a chance Dion Jordon becomes a star player.
It seems to me DP is leaning toward 30% he hits and 70% he bust.
It seems to me you and DS are at 0% he hits and 100% he bust.
IMO I think there is a good 70-75% chance he hits to a 25% chance he bust. |
Honestly I think his chance of being productive in the NFL is higher than 75%....
As a 3-4 OLB I love him. He can use his athleticism in space and be very good.
As a 4-3 DE I worry about his size. If he shows at the coming weighing 245 as he is listed now no way would I touch him. He needs to be 260 plus when he is weighed and he needs to show the strength to go with it. |
So basically we are arguing over something as minor as scheme?
Like I said before scheme is blown way out of the water. The elite guys can play 34 LB or 43 DE.
Also to be clear I do not want to draft Dion Jordan to simply play DE exlcusively. The reason why he is one of my favorites in a long time is because he can do everything much like Julian Peterson in his prime. We can hide him anywhere and everywhere. I love his versatility and simply put guys like him open sooo many avenues for your defense to attack the offense.
And as for the arguement about it taking time to become a full time DE I say there is not a single DE in this draft that would be a full time DE from day 1 here in Cleveland. Frostee Rucker is too good on 1st and 2nd down to ride the bench. We can afford to pull a SF and lets our DE be a pass rush specialist for at least a year much like they did with Aldon Smith. |
 Scheme plays a gigantic role in drafting players !! If you don't know that them I'm wasting my time.
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| Thomas5737 wrote: | | EZ's acceptance of farting on nuns does not necessarily reflect the views of this sub forum. |
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