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kirk cousins trade value
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red_skins5


Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red_skins5 wrote:
I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
hasn't been talked about. I like it. I'd do Cousins for Harvin and Webb, but I'd bet a million $ that the Vikings would scoff at the offer.
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red_skins5


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
hasn't been talked about. I like it. I'd do Cousins for Harvin and Webb, but I'd bet a million $ that the Vikings would scoff at the offer.


We would probably have to add a pick/player. Lets say Cousins by the end of the year improves his value to the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. We would probably need to add someones like ( Moss, Morgan , or Robinson ) and probably a 4th or 5th to make the trade work. Minny needs another wide receiver, any of those three WR`s are better than what Minny has right now outside of Harvin and once you add a 5th possibly and I think its a good deal for both parties.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red_skins5 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
hasn't been talked about. I like it. I'd do Cousins for Harvin and Webb, but I'd bet a million $ that the Vikings would scoff at the offer.


We would probably have to add a pick/player. Lets say Cousins by the end of the year improves his value to the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. We would probably need to add someones like ( Moss, Morgan , or Robinson ) and probably a 4th or 5th to make the trade work. Minny needs another wide receiver, any of those three WR`s are better than what Minny has right now outside of Harvin and once you add a 5th possibly and I think its a good deal for both parties.
i'd give them Moss or Morgan but I wouldn't be willing to part with Robinson because of his youth, speed and upside.

Of course, at that point, you are looking at a Harvin for Robinson swap and a Webb for Cousins swap and I'm game with those transactions.
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red_skins5


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
hasn't been talked about. I like it. I'd do Cousins for Harvin and Webb, but I'd bet a million $ that the Vikings would scoff at the offer.


We would probably have to add a pick/player. Lets say Cousins by the end of the year improves his value to the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. We would probably need to add someones like ( Moss, Morgan , or Robinson ) and probably a 4th or 5th to make the trade work. Minny needs another wide receiver, any of those three WR`s are better than what Minny has right now outside of Harvin and once you add a 5th possibly and I think its a good deal for both parties.
i'd give them Moss or Morgan but I wouldn't be willing to part with Robinson because of his youth, speed and upside.

Of course, at that point, you are looking at a Harvin for Robinson swap and a Webb for Cousins swap and I'm game with those transactions.


Could you just imagine our offence with Garcon , Hank and Harvin in the slot ? That would be one very very explosive offence. I am not sure there are many players out there that fit our offence as well as Harvin does.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

red_skins5 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
red_skins5 wrote:
I don`t know if this has been mentioned , If so sorry. I don`t even know how this would work but just a idea I had. Percy Harvin is in the last year of his contract and there were reports earlier that he wants out. Harvin would be a PERFECT fit in this offence with his YAC ability. Minny needs a QB and Cousins is building some value. Another thing the Vikes backup is Joe Webb who would also be a perfect backup to Rg3. And he as well would fit nicely with us. A Cousins + picks/players for Harvin and Webb , looks good on paper. Again I don`t know what we could or would need to add with cousins if anything to make this happen.........
hasn't been talked about. I like it. I'd do Cousins for Harvin and Webb, but I'd bet a million $ that the Vikings would scoff at the offer.


We would probably have to add a pick/player. Lets say Cousins by the end of the year improves his value to the equivalent of a 2nd round pick. We would probably need to add someones like ( Moss, Morgan , or Robinson ) and probably a 4th or 5th to make the trade work. Minny needs another wide receiver, any of those three WR`s are better than what Minny has right now outside of Harvin and once you add a 5th possibly and I think its a good deal for both parties.
i'd give them Moss or Morgan but I wouldn't be willing to part with Robinson because of his youth, speed and upside.

Of course, at that point, you are looking at a Harvin for Robinson swap and a Webb for Cousins swap and I'm game with those transactions.


Could you just imagine our offence with Garcon , Hank and Harvin in the slot ? That would be one very very explosive offence. I am not sure there are many players out there that fit our offence as well as Harvin does.
Drool
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
1. Taj Boyd, Qb Clemson
2. Ryan Nassib, QB Syracuse
3. Mike Glennon, Nc St
4. Aaron Murray, Georgia
5. Ej Manuel, Florida St
6. Zac Dysert, QB, Miami of Ohio


I haven't put together my QB evals yet, but I would stay away from Murray from what I remember of his outlook from last year. I'd also be a bit surprised if Boyd came out without a really good bowl game (not saying he would be a bad prospect).
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PARROTHEAD


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jets need a qb bad.
Cousins for one of Woz's Hoos. D'Brick Ferguson.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two considerations for trading Cousins:

1. Is the value we are getting back for him worth more than keeping him? So far, Cousins has finished two games and started a third. While Griffin has a significantly higher ceiling, there is a question of whether he can play full seasons. Personally, I think Griffin is smart enough to adapt to the game to have a long career, but we do need to consider the backup QB position is perhaps more important to us than it would be to say the Colts or Broncos with Manning under center.

2. Who do you replace Cousins with? Right now, the answer is Rex Grossman. That is not a long term answer and it's questionable whether it is even a short term answer. Is there a free agent solution? Doubtful. So, do you chance drafting another QB in this draft when it looks like this draft could be a poor draft for quarterbacks?
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PARROTHEAD wrote:
Jets need a qb bad.
Cousins for one of Woz's Hoos. D'Brick Ferguson.


Problems:
1. He's a left tackle. I vaguely recall him playing right tackle back in his sophomore year, but that was eight or nine years ago. He probably could move to the other side, but it would be a significant dilution of his muscle memory.

2. He's got a huge contract
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-jets/dbrickashaw-ferguson/
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3620/dbrickashaw-ferguson

Looking those numbers over, I don't think the Jets could get rid of him without completely destroying their cap for 2013. They already converted salary for Ferguson into bonus money this past February for cap reasons.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad idea to to trade Cousins before his third year is up. We finally got a reliable backup on the team. You know QB is the most important position on the team. We can do without another WR, etc. I know it hasn't been brought up before Rolling Eyes But why don't we keep him and just be happy we got him?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000113523/article/kirk-cousins-russell-wilson-ryan-tannehill-shine
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
Bad idea to to trade Cousins before his third year is up. We finally got a reliable backup on the team. You know QB is the most important position on the team. We can do without another WR, etc. I know it hasn't been brought up before Rolling Eyes But why don't we keep him and just be happy we got him?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000113523/article/kirk-cousins-russell-wilson-ryan-tannehill-shine


If we could turn Cousins (a backup QB who (hopefully) would spend most of his time holding a clipboard) into a couple/handful of players that can contribute on offense, shouldn't we try?

Again, it's a value proposition.

T(Cousins) = amount of value you get in exchange for trading Cousins
V(Cousins) = amount of value you have for having Cousins on the roster

If T(Cousins) > V(Cousins), then you should probably trade him, else keep him.

The real questions are:
1. What is T(Cousins)?
2. What is V(Cousins)?

The latter variable is going to be more of a personal taste issue. The former is what teams are willing to offer. We've seen people (both here and in the media) throw out what they think T(Cousins) is. However, V(Cousins) is more ephemeral. If Griffin was completely healthy and took half as many hits as he has this season, the V() value would be significantly lower. However, given that Griffin has missed parts of two games and one start (maybe more?), it's probably at its highest right now. What's helping the trade side of the house is that Cousins is living up to that value proposition.
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bowilson11


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2012/12/17/week-15-what-we-learned-nfl-washington-redskins-kirk-cousins-chicago-bears-brandon-marshall-rants-minnesota-vikings-adrian-peterson-dallas-cowboys-dez-bryant/1774319/


The article above thinks there will be interest in Kirk Cousins after this season. The Redskins have to be very careful not to over play their hand when it comes to Cousins. There are QB needy teams in the NFL right now, but in the next two years that might not be the case. Cousins could play out his contract and walk or the Redskins might have to except a lesser offer for him just to get something back. I understand everyone point of view on this subject and most of them a valid. I feel that we have presssing needs that have to be addressed to take the next step toward building a yearly contender. We don't have a 1st round pick until 2015 and the way it looks our 2nd round picks will be in the second half of the round. That equates to two more years of not getting any of the the Top-50 players. Free Agency isn't always the best way to go because of what some of those players will be demanding for a contract. I would like us to continue to draft young talent and develop it in our system. We can get another backup QB in the 4th or 5th round. There should be a few of them available there.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Bad idea to to trade Cousins before his third year is up. We finally got a reliable backup on the team. You know QB is the most important position on the team. We can do without another WR, etc. I know it hasn't been brought up before Rolling Eyes But why don't we keep him and just be happy we got him?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000113523/article/kirk-cousins-russell-wilson-ryan-tannehill-shine


If we could turn Cousins (a backup QB who (hopefully) would spend most of his time holding a clipboard) into a couple/handful of players that can contribute on offense, shouldn't we try?

Again, it's a value proposition.

T(Cousins) = amount of value you get in exchange for trading Cousins
V(Cousins) = amount of value you have for having Cousins on the roster

If T(Cousins) > V(Cousins), then you should probably trade him, else keep him.

The real questions are:
1. What is T(Cousins)?
2. What is V(Cousins)?

The latter variable is going to be more of a personal taste issue. The former is what teams are willing to offer. We've seen people (both here and in the media) throw out what they think T(Cousins) is. However, V(Cousins) is more ephemeral. If Griffin was completely healthy and took half as many hits as he has this season, the V() value would be significantly lower. However, given that Griffin has missed parts of two games and one start (maybe more?), it's probably at its highest right now. What's helping the trade side of the house is that Cousins is living up to that value proposition.


What is the Value of having a backup QB during what could be perhaps the most important and relevant game in Recent Franchise History coming up and know he can Lead the team and make the Offense keep Rolling?
Doesn't the place where this team has put itself possibly raise the importance of a backup QB who can Win in this league?

How many teams can say that they have complete confidence that their Backup QB can be called upon to WIN a big game for them? And how many teams are not playing deep into the season because they overlooked or fouled up the position?? Jets, Jags, Cards, Oak, Phi, Don't you think Chicago would have liked to have Cousins backing Cutler???

And ours just beat the #22 Overall pick Weeden who had Trent Richardson for our D to focus on.

Guys, having a great backup QB is not a "luxury" pick, having a great backup is CRUCIAL. So if you Really think you need to trade one, you only take a GREAT deal that blew you away...
And you better soon get someone you feel is qualified to play the second most important position on the team (according to Gibbs, and he said that YEARS ago, when it was not a passing league) to fill that void you just created. And you had better be sure you got the right guy again...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
1. Taj Boyd, Qb Clemson
2. Ryan Nassib, QB Syracuse
3. Mike Glennon, Nc St
4. Aaron Murray, Georgia
5. Ej Manuel, Florida St
6. Zac Dysert, QB, Miami of Ohio


I haven't put together my QB evals yet, but I would stay away from Murray from what I remember of his outlook from last year. I'd also be a bit surprised if Boyd came out without a really good bowl game (not saying he would be a bad prospect).
many said the same of cousins last year. Cousins was a guy who started all his time at Mich St but have never wowed anyone really. He did play big in big spots but he also would make mistakes and be inconsistent at times. A lot like Murray, Cousins never quite became what some thought he would be at Michigan State. Murray is a lot like Cousins in my eyes.
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