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So you want Freeman replaced
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DaRealdeal


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Good read. I don't have a problem if a qb comes back directing a wr and letting him know he ran the wrong route. In Freeman's , he hasn't established himself to yell at a wr bc he probably overthrew him wide open a few plays back.

That's obnoxious. If a QB, the leader of your offense, can't tell a WR that he ran a wrong route then I don't want him on my team. Period.

Freeman had every right to be pissed off. I wish he didn't show it the way that he did, though. Underwood had a bad game and he wasn't on the same page.

http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=79842

Quote:
Dave Moore on on “The Ron and Ian Show” yesterday on WDAE-AM 620. The former Bucs tight end, while admitting Freeman wasn’t his best self with accuracy Sunday, believed at least a few times errant throws were on Bucs receivers for not running proper routes, not so much because of Freeman’s wild streak. Moore specifically fingered Tiquan Underwood for missing “sight-adjusts” based on coverage.


REDandPEWTER wrote:
What this article fails to mention is freeman plays well against bad teams/defenses. Defenses that won't confuse him. Defenses like Denver will bring pressure. Freeman does a poor job handling pressure and picking up the blitz. See Dallas and Washington tape as well.

Can't argue with you. He's been awful against pressure this season which is uncharacteristic for him. The prior two seasons he handled pressure much better.

REDandPEWTER wrote:
He also seems to get confused in zone coverages. He audibuled many times to deep pass plays when Philly was playing in cover 2 cover 3 packages. Your supposed to pick a part a zone defense with underneath routes. I can't tell you how often I see freeman throw into double coverage with a safety closing in over top and db underneath. He's going to get his wr sandwiched and risk TOs. Regardless of the throw f Ra perfect it's got a high % incompletion rate. If its off its going to be an int.

This is so blatantly wrong. Did you see who was starting at Safety for the Eagles? Nate Allen and Colt Anderson. I would have gone after them deep too.

You beat a Cover 2 defense down the seam, between the safeties, and outside the hashes in the void between the CB and Safety. Those throws will always be there. Against the Cover 3 you can challenge the FS on 9 routes and post patterns rather easily as well. This 40 yard bomb to Vincent Jackson was against a Cover 3 look. Nothing about either coverage forces you to dink and dunk.

We have the weapons to beat these coverages and we have a QB that can make these throws. He just missed way too many on Sunday.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not gonna argue this much anymore. But his play speaks for itself. You fail to recognize the several dropped INTs freeman had against one of the worst defenses in the nfl.
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YoungBucs15


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this much anymore. But his play speaks for itself. You fail to recognize the several dropped INTs freeman had against one of the worst defenses in the nfl.


This whole Philly being the worst defense cracks me up. All Bucs fans should understand that even with good talent on a team, if it's not schemed right it fails.

That is what happened to Philly all year. They insisted on using the wide nine and got killed. The game against us was their first game back to a 4-3 which is ideal for that defense. Philly's problem was never talent on that side of the ball, outside of the safeties. It's been the scheme since day one.

I excepted the Eagles to have a good game against us defensively.
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this much anymore. But his play speaks for itself. You fail to recognize the several dropped INTs freeman had against one of the worst defenses in the nfl.


This whole Philly being the worst defense cracks me up. All Bucs fans should understand that even with good talent on a team, if it's not schemed right it fails.

That is what happened to Philly all year. They insisted on using the wide nine and got killed. The game against us was their first game back to a 4-3 which is ideal for that defense. Philly's problem was never talent on that side of the ball, outside of the safeties. It's been the scheme since day one.

I excepted the Eagles to have a good game against us defensively.


Their secondary is still absolutely awful, no matter what their d-line is doing. There is no way of justifying it, Freeman played absolutely terrible against one of the worst defensive backfields in the league.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this much anymore. But his play speaks for itself. You fail to recognize the several dropped INTs freeman had against one of the worst defenses in the nfl.


This whole Philly being the worst defense cracks me up. All Bucs fans should understand that even with good talent on a team, if it's not schemed right it fails.

That is what happened to Philly all year. They insisted on using the wide nine and got killed. The game against us was their first game back to a 4-3 which is ideal for that defense. Philly's problem was never talent on that side of the ball, outside of the safeties. It's been the scheme since day one.

I excepted the Eagles to have a good game against us defensively.


Their secondary is still absolutely awful, no matter what their d-line is doing. There is no way of justifying it, Freeman played absolutely terrible against one of the worst defensive backfields in the league.


I will say this much, watching DRC that game made him my number 1 target for this offseason. Dominik loved him and was mad he was drafted before, so we had to settle with Talib.

DRC looked physical, fast and played the ball better then Williams in the air. I just hope Philly lets him walk and we get a chance
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tml_gogo


Joined: 02 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah DRC has always been a great cover corner, but soft as tissue. In that game DRC was playing angry, I doubt we see that guy every week. That being said, he looked great.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
Yeah DRC has always been a great cover corner, but soft as tissue. In that game DRC was playing angry, I doubt we see that guy every week. That being said, he looked great.


There's been three hits on Dougie this year where I cringed. Week 1 when he made the catch against the Panthers. When he went helmet to helmet w/Robinson(who he knocked out the game) and that open field tackle by DRC. I thought for sure he was off to the races, but DRC stood him up and put him down.

We know it's in him. I want that guy bad....Regardless if we get one of the corners I wanted in the 2008 draft (DRC or Jenkins) then i'll be happy. I just never want to see Riley Cooper beat us on a throw from Nick Foles again Embarassed Embarassed
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tml_gogo wrote:
YoungBucs15 wrote:
REDandPEWTER wrote:
I'm not gonna argue this much anymore. But his play speaks for itself. You fail to recognize the several dropped INTs freeman had against one of the worst defenses in the nfl.


This whole Philly being the worst defense cracks me up. All Bucs fans should understand that even with good talent on a team, if it's not schemed right it fails.

That is what happened to Philly all year. They insisted on using the wide nine and got killed. The game against us was their first game back to a 4-3 which is ideal for that defense. Philly's problem was never talent on that side of the ball, outside of the safeties. It's been the scheme since day one.

I excepted the Eagles to have a good game against us defensively.


Their secondary is still absolutely awful, no matter what their d-line is doing. There is no way of justifying it, Freeman played absolutely terrible against one of the worst defensive backfields in the league.


I'm not saying that the secondary is the greatest. However we know that pressure can help compensate for the secondary, except when it comes to ours. What i was getting at was we were playing a team that was finally playing to their strengths and was coming into this game angry.
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jongbloed


Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bucs have been treating Josh Freeman like he's above repproach and backed him up 100%. While sometimes he demonstrated a lot of commitment to the franchise, I think that he was made to believe he's earned the right to point out who's accountable for the team's misfortunes... But he doesn't have that right.
The head coach is the guy to point out what went wrong and also, if someone should angrily react to something that happened on the field, it's the head coach ONLY, in my opinion. A very few players in the league have earned that right too, but Freeman isn't one of them and he's not even close.

Being a leader is something you know how to do and you can't pretend you are.
It has to come naturally, if his teammates accept what he says and look up to him, them ok. But if his leadership is just superficial, is just because he's the quarterback and is the face of the franchise, them, to me, it's never going to work.

With all that said, I think the team should be looking for possibilities, but as of right now, I don't think there's any. They should try and make things work out as they are right now. There's not a lot they could do now to change anything.
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haggis


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freeman isn't the problem it is the damn defense

You would be changing your tune if they had a defense that..

Stopped the 4th quarter Eli Manning onslaught

Stopped RG3 to stop the winning FG as time expired

Stop Drew Brees when your up 21-7 at least once

Keep Atlanta from edging you out

And keep Philly QB from looking like Tom Brady on you

and this team would be 11-3 easily and you people would be LOVING Freeman


HATE THE [inappropriate/removed] DEFENSE IT SUCKS
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LazyBoyFil


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haggis wrote:
Freeman isn't the problem it is the damn defense

You would be changing your tune if they had a defense that..

Stopped the 4th quarter Eli Manning onslaught

Stopped RG3 to stop the winning FG as time expired

Stop Drew Brees when your up 21-7 at least once

Keep Atlanta from edging you out

And keep Philly QB from looking like Tom Brady on you

and this team would be 11-3 easily and you people would be LOVING Freeman


HATE THE [inappropriate/removed] DEFENSE IT SUCKS


Ok you are right

If our Defense was better *cough cough CBs* we would very easily be 11-3 and loving life

HOWEVER

That wouldn't change anything about Freeman, he would still suck and still have horrible accuracy and miss open receivers and easy TD passes
So in essence a good D would just mask things and make us not see the truth about freeman til later down the road when we inevitably give him a huge monster contract and be stuck with bad QB play forever (at least. Another 4 yrs)

So thanks but no thanks
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tml_gogo


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The D would have given us an advantage there, but it would not have stopped Freeman's patented "6/16, 50ish yards, 2 interception" halves that he loves having.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freeman may have a statline of 25 TDs to 12 INTs, but those are also misleading. He should have more Multiple INT games. But defenses he's faced have seriously dropped about 3-4 a game. Yes, every QB gets the occasional break on easy drops by the DB. But Freeman's gotten away with so many, that I've seen this coming soon.

TML, I'm glad you're on the same page.
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Freeman may have a statline of 25 TDs to 12 INTs, but those are also misleading. He should have more Multiple INT games. But defenses he's faced have seriously dropped about 3-4 a game. Yes, every QB gets the occasional break on easy drops by the DB. But Freeman's gotten away with so many, that I've seen this coming soon.

TML, I'm glad you're on the same page.
I think you can say that about most QB's in the NFL that have low INT's. Its luck. Last year, he INT's everywhere a lot of finger tips from WR's, etc...

Freeman came in playing terrible part of that was play-calling by being ultra conservative then we opened it up, he played well for a month, and then will end the season on a bad note. We'll see how year 2 goes with Sully but what's really holding this team back from winning games is the worst pass Defense in the NFL. Our offense is #10 in PPG even after not scoring a single point Sunday. I can't remember the last time our offense was that potent.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I can't believe Freeman is the luckiest QB in the NFL, therefore his INT totals should be higher.

However, I do believe there will be a pretty thorough evaluation on who the starting QB will be in 2013. The evaluation process may point to Freeman being the starter with a cap hit of over $10 million. I do not believe he will get a contract extension. Obviously, Coach Schiano/Sully have a vision they want their QB to be. A vertical passer, slide in the pocket as opposed to consistently breaking containment, ability to analyze the defense at the line of scrimmage and audible if necessary, and change pace of the game when necessary with a sugar huddle. Can Freeman reach that vision by the start of 2013? There are certainly strong opinions on either side of the fence. I'm pretty confident Coach Schiao is not going to adjust his vision of what he wants from his QB, he'll just replace his QB if he doesn't fit, much like he did with other players who didn't fit his vision.

It has been 5 long years now, since our team has been in the playoffs. Honestly, our team on a national level is pretty much irrelevant. I believe the Bucs have never been on the Sunday night game on NBC ever. Jacksonville has played in more Monday Night football games then our Bucs in the last 4 years. Yup, we are irrelevant, which irks me. I would assume after the spending spree Team Glazer signed off on last offseason, probably irks them also. The Glazers didn't open up the checkbook for VJack, Nicks, and Wright to continue to be irrelevant and mediocre. They could have just kept building through the draft and ride out this year with Rah still as head coach. As a Freeman supporter, right now I don't think anything is set in stone right now for 2013 at QB.
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