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Ravens @ Redskins GDT (Week 14)
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@ConvenientTruth: It was that late? Dang, for some reason I thought it happened in the 3rd or start of the 4th. My mistake. Still, down by 8 with 4 mins left and 75 yards to go? C'mon, you can't tell me our defense should be able to hold. But yeah, that could've turned the game around and essentially given us a win. Like I said, those close games that we were somehow winning earlier in the year are now biting us because we approach those games with the same mentality and lack of preparation and accountability.

The Ravens almost recovered a fumble on a kickoff that would have given the Ravens the ball at the Washington 15 with 4 minutes left. Already in chip shot field goal range with an 8 point lead. The recovering player (I think it was David Reed) could not stay inbounds.

The game was over if he recovered it.


Yeah I watched the play...lol it was David Reed. I just figured it happened much earlier in the game.

Either way...trying to pin the loss on that play is silly. If we stop them on the 2 point coversion, we win. If we keep their backup QB from going HAM and throwing a TD pass, we win. If Flacco learns some DAMN POCKET AWARENESS, we win.

Multiple factors.
I'm not blaming it on that per se, I'm just saying how different this place would be if he recovered it and the Ravens win by 10-14 to move to 10-3.


Like all hypothetical situations, what's to say that on the next play Flacco throws a pick six or Rice fumbles and they return it for six?

The game played out like it played out, and we weren't good enough to play defense when we needed to and weren't good enough to not turn the ball over when we needed to (and also to not score points when we needed to). That's all that needs to be said. Some of it was lack of execution, and some of it was poor coaching and gameplanning (defensively and offensively respectively).

To simply say we'd be 10-3 right now had we recovered that fumble is neglecting and redirecting the actuality that our team didn't play well enough to win this game.
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GaTechRavens


Joined: 24 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@ConvenientTruth: It was that late? Dang, for some reason I thought it happened in the 3rd or start of the 4th. My mistake. Still, down by 8 with 4 mins left and 75 yards to go? C'mon, you can't tell me our defense should be able to hold. But yeah, that could've turned the game around and essentially given us a win. Like I said, those close games that we were somehow winning earlier in the year are now biting us because we approach those games with the same mentality and lack of preparation and accountability.

The Ravens almost recovered a fumble on a kickoff that would have given the Ravens the ball at the Washington 15 with 4 minutes left. Already in chip shot field goal range with an 8 point lead. The recovering player (I think it was David Reed) could not stay inbounds.

The game was over if he recovered it.


Yeah I watched the play...lol it was David Reed. I just figured it happened much earlier in the game.

Either way...trying to pin the loss on that play is silly. If we stop them on the 2 point coversion, we win. If we keep their backup QB from going HAM and throwing a TD pass, we win. If Flacco learns some DAMN POCKET AWARENESS, we win.

Multiple factors.
I'm not blaming it on that per se, I'm just saying how different this place would be if he recovered it and the Ravens win by 10-14 to move to 10-3.


Like all hypothetical situations, what's to say that on the next play Flacco throws a pick six or Rice fumbles and they return it for six?

The game played out like it played out, and we weren't good enough to play defense when we needed to and weren't good enough to not turn the ball over when we needed to (and also to not score points when we needed to). That's all that needs to be said. Some of it was lack of execution, and some of it was poor coaching and gameplanning (defensively and offensively respectively).

To simply say we'd be 10-3 right now had we recovered that fumble is neglecting and redirecting the actuality that our team didn't play well enough to win this game.


No, but shunning the hypotheticals and sticking only to what happened - and you did this in the other thread too with the AFC title game - doesn't give us proper perspective. It leads to a shortsighted point of view that ignores the big picture. It's what leads us to proclaim absolutes - Harbaugh CAN'T win the Super Bowl, Joe Flacco CAN'T win the Super Bowl - that are very dangerous once you apply them to the actual decisions and organization makes. The NFL is too subjective to think in absolutes.

Let me ask you this: if David Reed is one yard further to his left, are the Ravens somehow a better football team? Because they would have almost certainly won the game if that was the case. Bringing up some wildly unrealistic scenario like a pick six doesn't change that, unless you believe the outcome of every game is predestined.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@ConvenientTruth: It was that late? Dang, for some reason I thought it happened in the 3rd or start of the 4th. My mistake. Still, down by 8 with 4 mins left and 75 yards to go? C'mon, you can't tell me our defense should be able to hold. But yeah, that could've turned the game around and essentially given us a win. Like I said, those close games that we were somehow winning earlier in the year are now biting us because we approach those games with the same mentality and lack of preparation and accountability.

The Ravens almost recovered a fumble on a kickoff that would have given the Ravens the ball at the Washington 15 with 4 minutes left. Already in chip shot field goal range with an 8 point lead. The recovering player (I think it was David Reed) could not stay inbounds.

The game was over if he recovered it.


Yeah I watched the play...lol it was David Reed. I just figured it happened much earlier in the game.

Either way...trying to pin the loss on that play is silly. If we stop them on the 2 point coversion, we win. If we keep their backup QB from going HAM and throwing a TD pass, we win. If Flacco learns some DAMN POCKET AWARENESS, we win.

Multiple factors.
I'm not blaming it on that per se, I'm just saying how different this place would be if he recovered it and the Ravens win by 10-14 to move to 10-3.


Like all hypothetical situations, what's to say that on the next play Flacco throws a pick six or Rice fumbles and they return it for six?

The game played out like it played out, and we weren't good enough to play defense when we needed to and weren't good enough to not turn the ball over when we needed to (and also to not score points when we needed to). That's all that needs to be said. Some of it was lack of execution, and some of it was poor coaching and gameplanning (defensively and offensively respectively).

To simply say we'd be 10-3 right now had we recovered that fumble is neglecting and redirecting the actuality that our team didn't play well enough to win this game.


No, but shunning the hypotheticals and sticking only to what happened - and you did this in the other thread too with the AFC title game - doesn't give us proper perspective. It leads to a shortsighted point of view that ignores the big picture. It's what leads us to proclaim absolutes - Harbaugh CAN'T win the Super Bowl, Joe Flacco CAN'T win the Super Bowl - that are very dangerous once you apply them to the actual decisions and organization makes. The NFL is too subjective to think in absolutes.

Let me ask you this: if David Reed is one yard further to his left, are the Ravens somehow a better football team? Because they would have almost certainly won the game if that was the case. Bringing up some wildly unrealistic scenario like a pick six doesn't change that, unless you believe the outcome of every game is predestined.


I don't like hypothetical situations because it ignores what actually happened.

You raise a very good point that even if David Reed is one yard to the left, we aren't any better of a team than we are now.

All I'm saying is that we didn't recover the fumble, big deal, you can't say we lost because of that play. We lost because of a collective effort of plays that didn't happen.
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ConvenientTruth


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ravens had a 91% chance of winning after that kick. What's the chance the Ravens win if Reed gets that fumble? 99.5%? Three runs and a FG and it's over.

I think the mood in here is much different with 10-point win. Everyone complains about the defense and that's pretty much it.

Just like if Lee Evans looks the ball in, Joe Flacco has a contract extension and people in NFL general are talking about he's elite.

We are reactionary.
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

I don't like hypothetical situations because it ignores what actually happened.

You raise a very good point that even if David Reed is one yard to the left, we aren't any better of a team than we are now.

All I'm saying is that we didn't recover the fumble, big deal, you can't say we lost because of that play. We lost because of a collective effort of plays that didn't happen.


It doesn't ignore what actually happened. It just suggests that what actually happened was a product of specific events that could have easily swung in any other direction. If the Ravens win by recovering that fumble (extremely lucky), I can absolutely say we lost because of that play...because we almost certainly did. That doesn't mean we didn't do other things to cost us the game, but it's pretty obvious that the fumble played a role there. Unless you believe we would have lost either way, there's no reason to ignore that as a factor.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

I don't like hypothetical situations because it ignores what actually happened.

You raise a very good point that even if David Reed is one yard to the left, we aren't any better of a team than we are now.

All I'm saying is that we didn't recover the fumble, big deal, you can't say we lost because of that play. We lost because of a collective effort of plays that didn't happen.


It doesn't ignore what actually happened. It just suggests that what actually happened was a product of specific events that could have easily swung in any other direction. If the Ravens win by recovering that fumble (extremely lucky), I can absolutely say we lost because of that play...because we almost certainly did. That doesn't mean we didn't do other things to cost us the game, but it's pretty obvious that the fumble played a role there. Unless you believe we would have lost either way, there's no reason to ignore that as a factor.


I'm not ignoring it as a factor, I'm dismissing the notion that it was the reason we lost (or if we recover, the reason we win).

@CT: If we win this game by recovering that fumble, then I change my stance from "we lost because of this" to "we won in spite of this", and everyone else still clings to the "just win" mantra. Either way, my point is this: this team has been plagued by the same problems for 3 years now, and those same problems keep crawling into nearly every game and we lose games by those same problems that have yet to be addressed three years from being introduced. The only "new" problem this year is that our defense also sucks.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
ConvenientTruth wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
@ConvenientTruth: It was that late? Dang, for some reason I thought it happened in the 3rd or start of the 4th. My mistake. Still, down by 8 with 4 mins left and 75 yards to go? C'mon, you can't tell me our defense should be able to hold. But yeah, that could've turned the game around and essentially given us a win. Like I said, those close games that we were somehow winning earlier in the year are now biting us because we approach those games with the same mentality and lack of preparation and accountability.

The Ravens almost recovered a fumble on a kickoff that would have given the Ravens the ball at the Washington 15 with 4 minutes left. Already in chip shot field goal range with an 8 point lead. The recovering player (I think it was David Reed) could not stay inbounds.

The game was over if he recovered it.


Yeah I watched the play...lol it was David Reed. I just figured it happened much earlier in the game.

Either way...trying to pin the loss on that play is silly. If we stop them on the 2 point coversion, we win. If we keep their backup QB from going HAM and throwing a TD pass, we win. If Flacco learns some DAMN POCKET AWARENESS, we win.

Multiple factors.
I'm not blaming it on that per se, I'm just saying how different this place would be if he recovered it and the Ravens win by 10-14 to move to 10-3.


Yep.

If that happens, we hear about how Joe played pretty well aside from his 2 mistakes, that how our defense sucks, that hopefully we get healthier by the time playoffs hit, but at least we're in, etc.

Now the sky is falling again.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested in who you guys want to win tonight. Houston because there isn't anyway we can catch them for the first seed anyway and we're just playing for the second seed now or New England?
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really care. But I would like to see Texans fans humbled a bit.
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BareYourTeeth


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't really care. But I would like to see Texans fans humbled a bit.


I would like that too, but now that I think about it we would have to win out and Houston would have to lose out starting tonight in order for us to get the first seed because they have the tiebreaker over us...not happening.

Go Houston!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
I don't really care. But I would like to see Texans fans humbled a bit.


No. My hate/disdain for the Patriots, their fans, and especially Tom Brady far outweigh any dislike I have for a recently slightly overconfident Texans fanbase.

Goooo Texans!!!

Evil or Very Mad
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coordinator0 wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
Do you guys see why i feel the same about flacco? you cant possibly tell me no one was open all that time against the redskins


You don't know our offense routes. I can almost guarantee it was all verts with Rice leaking out of the backfield after pretending to block for a second.

ConvenientTruth wrote:
Welp. At least the Steelers and Bengals lost....


Yep. PIT is still playing but they're not coming back.
IDK every game with Flacco seems like hes inconsistent sometimes. IMO he'll never get you a SB you need some one better and this is the honest truth. Like in the game i was like 3 tds from this guy? and even in the other thread i said and quotes" We need to blitz him he is a statue who takes alot of time to throw" . Sadly enough our bonehead DC finally blitzed and it completely shook Flacco and did nothing.

Sorry to say I think hes similar to Matt Ryan a guy who gets you to the playoffs but thats about it , he cant take you to another level on offense IMO.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I would like to see the Texans humbled, I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOVE to see JJ Watt making Tom Brady a ragdoll in the pocket tonight.

GO HOUSTON!
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want the Texans to win. Both because I want the #2 seed and the Patriots losing is a necessity in seeing that happen.

That and if the Texans win tonight they could clinch the AFC #1 seed (I believe) as they'd have the tie-breaker over the Patriots, the Broncos, and us at that point and at 12-1, the best any other team could do would be to tie them.

And as we've seen in the past, teams that clinch too early tend to lock it up... too early. They get out of sync/out of rhythm and become easier to beat. So the way I see it them winning presents a best case scenario for us like this:
Quote:
1. Texans win, Patriots lose
2. Texans lock it up, Ravens control destiny
3. Ravens win out and win #2 seed
4. Patriots/Broncos win wildcard game
5. We beat Patriots/Broncos at home
6. Patriots/Broncos travel to Houston and beat an out-of-sync Texans team.
7. AFCCG is in Baltimore, we beat Patriots/Broncos
8. We go to the Super Bowl and play team 'x'
9. We beat team 'x'
10. Ray Lewis' rides off into the sunset, Matt Birk follows him.
11. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theoretically if we win out and end up with the Broncos and Pats at 12-4, how would the seedings go?

And yes, I know that even with Cam getting fired winning out is a tall order.
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