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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
yeah. We'll see. One mans word doesn't make it the gospel. It still depends on what happens in preseason.


Hmm ... care to wager? Gentlemen's bet, just pride.
sure. Last time I took a Grossman bet with Footy29, I won in 2011


Correct me if I am wrong, but last time weren't you betting WITH Grossman as opposed to this time where you are betting AGAINST him?
last time I voted against Grossman, I'll never vote for Grossman to so anything well, except turn the ball over, he's good at that.

Footy believed that Grossman would have our team at a better record than Donovan McNabb had the team in 2010. Footy29 said he felt we'd be better than 5-11, I said no way. So we sign betted on that. He pmed and admitted I was right because Grossman only had us at 5-11 in 2011 but I said I didn't care about the sign bet, so no new embarrassing sign was made for Footy29 to wear.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grossman has value beyond his play on the field. He's a veteran with experience in this offense who can continue to bring along our two sophmore QBs. He's basically another coach in practice but with a player's perspective which is invaluable. I don't see how he won't make the final roster this year, especially with RG3s injury.
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aceinthehouse


Joined: 23 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I see things a little differently.

Nobody wants Grossman. If he's sitting in FA, he will be available on speed dial.
We presume the same for White because until we reached out, he was nowhere to be found.

But that was before all these teams jumping on the Pistol formation--zone read/option plays---8 new coaching hirings and tranformations bandwagon.

Not to mention the D-Coordinators going out of there minds and hiring new staffs to stop it.

How many guys like White are available?
Not that many...

When we run practices, scrimmages or whatever.
White can be out there to prepare our Defense VS those said teams now, without the risk of running RG3 in those drills & getting injured.

To prepare for the 49ers who we play.
To prepare for the Chiefs who we play (hired Chris Ault).
To prepare for the Eagles with Vick & Chip Kelly who we play X2.
To prepare for Oakland who could run it with the Personel they have and we play
To Prepare for the Vikings who could run it with the Personel they have and we play.

That's 6 teams we could easily see a form of what we do in the regular season.

What about the Playoffs?
What if we meet the 49ers or Seahawks again?
What if Carolina makes the playoffs, who beat us last year?

You have to prepare for all scenarios.

I have no idea what White can do.
Seems like he was phased out pretty quick, even though he was a 2nd rd draft selection.
Didn't he get injured & this played a significant role?

Anyways...we're talking about 3rd string here.
I don't see the harm in carrying a QB with the 3rd string team who can run like the wind, but doesn't have RG3's accuracy, but can run the Pistol formation & the read option plays on offense and other stuff we have.

I'll tell you this.
With RG3's injury unknown....or how it will play out this yr?

I would rather carry a 3rd QB in Pat White
than a 4th TE in Niles Paul
A 5th CB in Chase Minnifield
A 6th wr in Lance Lewis
or a 3rd NT in Ron Brace
and so on...
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Geronimo


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
Grossman has value beyond his play on the field. He's a veteran with experience in this offense who can continue to bring along our two sophmore QBs. He's basically another coach in practice but with a player's perspective which is invaluable. I don't see how he won't make the final roster this year, especially with RG3s injury.


I have to disagree. When Cooley came back last year he said that the playbok was totally different and he had to learn new things. Did Grossman ever play from the pistol formation with us?

IMO, Grossman has no special experience with our current offense. If he had to play, we should go back to our old playbooks.
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21 ALL THE WAY


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
I guess I see things a little differently.

Nobody wants Grossman. If he's sitting in FA, he will be available on speed dial.
We presume the same for White because until we reached out, he was nowhere to be found.

But that was before all these teams jumping on the Pistol formation--zone read/option plays---8 new coaching hirings and tranformations bandwagon.

Not to mention the D-Coordinators going out of there minds and hiring new staffs to stop it.

How many guys like White are available?
Not that many...

When we run practices, scrimmages or whatever.
White can be out there to prepare our Defense VS those said teams now, without the risk of running RG3 in those drills & getting injured.

To prepare for the 49ers who we play.
To prepare for the Chiefs who we play (hired Chris Ault).
To prepare for the Eagles with Vick & Chip Kelly who we play X2.
To prepare for Oakland who could run it with the Personel they have and we play
To Prepare for the Vikings who could run it with the Personel they have and we play.

That's 6 teams we could easily see a form of what we do in the regular season.

What about the Playoffs?
What if we meet the 49ers or Seahawks again?
What if Carolina makes the playoffs, who beat us last year?

You have to prepare for all scenarios.

I have no idea what White can do.
Seems like he was phased out pretty quick, even though he was a 2nd rd draft selection.
Didn't he get injured & this played a significant role?

Anyways...we're talking about 3rd string here.
I don't see the harm in carrying a QB with the 3rd string team who can run like the wind, but doesn't have RG3's accuracy, but can run the Pistol formation & the read option plays on offense and other stuff we have.

I'll tell you this.
With RG3's injury unknown....or how it will play out this yr?

I would rather carry a 3rd QB in Pat White
than a 4th TE in Niles Paul
A 5th CB in Chase Minnifield
A 6th wr in Lance Lewis
or a 3rd NT in Ron Brace
and so on...



This is very well said and I understand where ur coming from but quite frankly I would love to see us use less of the option this year and run more of a regular offense to protect RG3. Yes I know this work out great last year but look what the end result was (Rg3 hurt) It really started to [inappropriate/removed] me off last year when it seem ThAtz all we ran. We have to protect our future and running less of the option and more of a regular offense IMO would get the job done.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aceinthehouse wrote:
I guess I see things a little differently.


You see them WRONG! Wink Laughing (I'm teasing)

Quote:
Nobody wants Grossman. If he's sitting in FA, he will be available on speed dial.
We presume the same for White because until we reached out, he was nowhere to be found.


Grossman was on speed dial. White we had to look up in a phone book. Yes, a phone book, because White was so out of the league that we couldn't look him up with Google.

Quote:
But that was before all these teams jumping on the Pistol formation--zone read/option plays---8 new coaching hirings and tranformations bandwagon.


You're making an assumption that a new coaching hire == pistol transformation. For instance, as much as you talk up Chris Ault being hired by the Chiefs, you forget that the head coach is Andy Reid. Reid is the one calling the shots on offense.

Realistically, only Kelly would be looking to run the pistol most likely. Sure, some of these guys (and other coaches) will have a pistol formation play or two in their playbook but it's unlikely that most teams will have the pistol as their base offense.

Quote:
Not to mention the D-Coordinators going out of there minds and hiring new staffs to stop it.


Because a team really is going to pick up a QB to run an offense that other teams will run at the expense of a guy who can help them play the game? Think about that: do you think a guy like Jeff Fisher (who faces both Seattle and San Francisco four times combined) will pick up a QB who he will never use on offense and replace a special teams gunner or a 5th safety? Is that a wise move?

Quote:
How many guys like White are available?
Not that many...


If you absolutely had to, you could practice with the a backup WR or RB taking snaps. You're practicing against his speed on runs, not his accuracy on passes since that is apparently not there.

Quote:
When we run practices, scrimmages or whatever.
White can be out there to prepare our Defense VS those said teams now, without the risk of running RG3 in those drills & getting injured.


You wouldn't have RG3 out there against the first team defense in the first place after training camp, and in training camp, there's a halo around the QB (moreso with RG3 right now). During the season, RG3 would be focused on prepping with the offense, and the defense would be focused on our opposing QB.

Let's look at what we're facing:
Week 1 - Philadelphia: this might be the only place it makes sense to have White, but we're making an assumption as to how the Eagles offense will operate (or who will even be the QB (I could see Vick getting hurt again)).

Week 2 - Green Bay: Do we honestly think that prepping against Pat White would prepare us to face Aaron Rodgers?

Week 3 - Detroit: Well, at least Rodgers is a running threat; Stafford is mobile but is a traditional pocket passer.

Week 4 - Oakland: As of right now, it's Matt Flynn. Not a useful match for us. MAYBE if Terrelle Pryor took over, White would be useful. However, if you look at Oakland's coaching roster, you see Al Saunders as Senior Offensive Assistant next to OC Greg Olsen. Olsen has mainly been a QB coach but has filled in as OC at stops after coaches get fired (2005 in Detroit, 2007 in St. Louis (he worked alongside Scott Linehan in developing the offense in 2006, but only had play calling duties in 2007), 2009-2011 in Tampa Bay (go look at those numbers)). So, whose offense do you think they'll be running in Oakland?

Week 6 & 16 - Dallas: Romo, while mobile, is not really a pistol type QB. I also don't think we need to have a special QB to deal with the Cowboys since we're so familiar with them.

Week 7 - Chicago: Okay, I will give you this one since Trestman has been in the CFL for the past five years and has stated that the read-option will be "part" of the playbook. How much? Don't know. How much will it work with Cutler? Not sure. Is it worth holding White for 7 weeks just to prepare for this one game where there may or may not be any read-option? Doubtful.

Week 8 - Denver: HA! Peyton Manning ... running the read option?! That's hilarious. If they did, I would be absolutely thrilled since that would negate one of their best weapons (heck one of the best weapons in the NFL). John Fox is many things, but that stupid isn't one of them.

Week 9 - San Diego: For his career, Philip Rivers has rushed 338 yards. He's no threat. Besides, it looks like Mike McCoy focuses on maximizing the offense around the QB he has (Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow), not pigeonhole the QB into an offense.

Week 10 - Minnesota: We'll most likely be solely focused on stopping the running threat that is Adrian Peterson to worry if Christian Ponder can get a couple of yards.

Week 11 - Philadelphia: At this point, we'll have plenty of tape on the offense that Philly runs. IF they run a read-option offense, then we could pick up White ... or use Chris Thompson.

Week 12 - San Francisco: Twelve weeks we've held White for this one game? That's a really poor use of a roster spot.

Week 13 & 17 - NY Giants: They don't run a pistol offense and I don't see Tom Coughlin completely changing his style for no apparent reason.

Week 14 - Kansas City: Again, waiting this long for one game is silly. It's an even a bigger question than with the 49ers since it isn't clear they'll run a read-option.

Week 15 - Atlanta: They could run a read-option. Or they could run their standard vertical offense. Which do you think they'll do?

Quote:
To prepare for the 49ers who we play.
To prepare for the Chiefs who we play (hired Chris Ault).
To prepare for the Eagles with Vick & Chip Kelly who we play X2.
To prepare for Oakland who could run it with the Personel they have and we play
To Prepare for the Vikings who could run it with the Personel they have and we play.


As I said, we play the 49ers in week 12 and the Chiefs in week 14. I have some doubts that the Raiders will actually run the read-option, and I absolutely laugh at the concept the Vikings could do it with any reasonable threat with Ponder.

So, the only place we would have to worry about would be the Eagles in week one ... and we would have been practicing against that in training camp.

Quote:
That's 6 teams we could easily see a form of what we do in the regular season.

What about the Playoffs?
What if we meet the 49ers or Seahawks again?
What if Carolina makes the playoffs, who beat us last year?

You have to prepare for all scenarios.


So, you're going to hold one guy who cannot help you except as running a scout team for an entire season simply because of what could happen? What do you think 31 other franchises are doing? Do you think they're picking up a poor throwing QB with good running ability on the off chance they face us in the playoffs?

Quote:
I have no idea what White can do.
Seems like he was phased out pretty quick, even though he was a 2nd rd draft selection.
Didn't he get injured & this played a significant role?


http://www.nfl.com/player/patwhite/71511/profile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_White_%28athlete%29

So a team who drafted him, trained him, and decided after one year that he wasn't worth it. His next stop was the UFL, and was cut before the season began.

Quote:
Anyways...we're talking about 3rd string here.
I don't see the harm in carrying a QB with the 3rd string team who can run like the wind, but doesn't have RG3's accuracy, but can run the Pistol formation & the read option plays on offense and other stuff we have.


The read-option only has value because you can pass out of it, thus preventing the corners and safeties from sneaking up. If you take that out, then they just cram down on the line.

Quote:
I'll tell you this.
With RG3's injury unknown....or how it will play out this yr?

I would rather carry a 3rd QB in Pat White
than a 4th TE in Niles Paul
A 5th CB in Chase Minnifield
A 6th wr in Lance Lewis
or a 3rd NT in Ron Brace
and so on...


Wow ... you would keep a guy who gives you absolutely no value over guys who can at least in theory give you something on special teams or in special packages you will run more than three times a season?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with most of what Ace said except that a 3rd Qb (who will be inactive all year- like Grossman last year) is more valuable than a 4th RB or TE, 5th CB or WR. That simply isn't true as Woz said. Those guys are your core special teams players and could even be on the field on offense or defense some during a game while the 3rd Qb is inactive.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
Woz wrote:
However, if they are already talking about his inaccuracy issues now, do we honestly think he'll suddenly improve in the next two months?


I have never seen White, but I have seen Grossman: can White be more inaccurate than him?


Remember: Grossman is a ten year veteran. White, a second round pick, was cut and out of the NFL after only two years. No one even thought of White for two years until the Skins came calling this past March.
thats not entirely true, the Eagles wanted him
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
Woz wrote:
However, if they are already talking about his inaccuracy issues now, do we honestly think he'll suddenly improve in the next two months?


I have never seen White, but I have seen Grossman: can White be more inaccurate than him?


Remember: Grossman is a ten year veteran. White, a second round pick, was cut and out of the NFL after only two years. No one even thought of White for two years until the Skins came calling this past March.
thats not entirely true, the Eagles wanted him


The Eagles didn't know what they wanted this offseason.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
Woz wrote:
However, if they are already talking about his inaccuracy issues now, do we honestly think he'll suddenly improve in the next two months?


I have never seen White, but I have seen Grossman: can White be more inaccurate than him?


Remember: Grossman is a ten year veteran. White, a second round pick, was cut and out of the NFL after only two years. No one even thought of White for two years until the Skins came calling this past March.
thats not entirely true, the Eagles wanted him


The Eagles didn't know what they wanted this offseason.
while I do agree with your point, the Eagles were still interested in signing Pat.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

✔ @SI_PeterKing

Quote:
At Wash practice today in Asburn, Va. RG3 ran hard on sideline and turned the corner at high speed looking like, well, RG3.
1:01 PM - 6 Jun 2013


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wkGp9u6hA3M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DwkGp9u6hA3M

Rg3. Ultra rookie highlights. This is a great video Cool

Is there another battle between Griffin and Shanahan like we had a few times last year about Robert's knee?

1st there was the game after the Ravens game (the Browns game) where RG3 and his father wanted him to play, but Shanahan and doctors wouldn't let him.- win Shanahan

2nd there was obviously the Seahawks game where Griffin convinced Shanahan he was finishing this thing because he had brought us so far.

Now there is a new rumbling going on around Redskins Park. How much is it an issue, no one knows? It could be a big thing, but likely not.

Rg3 has said there is "no doubt" he will be ready to go first day of camp, which starts July 25th.

Shanahan stated in a recent press conference:

Quote:
The doctors have got to OK him. From the beginning they have talked about the recovery time being anywhere from seven months to nine months…August 9 is seven months”.

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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/06/11/griffin-says-hell-begin-making-cuts-on-surgically-repaired-knee-next-week/

Griffin sys he's going o begin making sharp cuts next week
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.whosay.com/m/robertgriffiniii/photos/358160?wsref=em-90-0-20130619-4-2--uXqqVihDNMnP146DP0pD_g

Picture of RG3- looks about 10 on a baseball card Laughing

Dallas Radio After Redskins Win NFC East

http://t.co/k8mK9JHMNU

www.lockerpulse.com/News/Report-Robert-Griffin-IIIs-knee-responded-well-to-cutting-and-changing-direction-S7307011?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Rg3's knee responds well to cutting and changing of directions
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://riggosrag.com/2013/06/22/redskins-griffin-rated-no-15-in-nfl-top-100-list/?utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

Congrats to Rg3 for being #15 on the top 100 players. It seems about right IMO. Shooting for top 10 this year and top 5 in 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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