Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Moving Forward & Our Foundation
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3944
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Moving Forward & Our Foundation Reply with quote

I was recently going over the guys on each club around the league who are most critical to their current success and future achievements. Our situation, like many others, is difficult. Who is critical to keep going forward? I originally had the list at three, but those three were fairly obvious to me (Rodgers, Cobb, and Matthews). So I went to five.

Who, in your eyes, are the most important five going forward with this club?

For me:

Aaron Rodgers, Randall Cobb, Clay Matthews, Casey Hayward, and BJ Raji. Those, in my opinion, are key talents that can't be found elsewhere.

Agree? Disagree?

On another tangent, what are your thoughts with this upcoming draft? I know this has been talked about on numerous occasions in numerous threads, but what piece are we missing? A thumper of an ILB? A pass rushing five tech? A beast at C? An elite zone style RB with elite vision?

Here, I feel that if I could have my way, we'd end up with a Barrett Jones type center. The football IQ will come with experience, but to really be able to have that guy on our offensive line would be huge for our run game. Saturday has half the equation but is on the wrong side of his career, something we all know. But can you imagine if we had some more flexibility with our offensive line?

Yet maybe that isn't the case. Maybe it's more than our offensive line. It could be that Starks and Green aren't perfect fits for our fit. Maybe it's a combination of it not being a focus of ours and not having the right personnel.

Your thoughts on this, too?
_________________
Simian07:
Quote:
I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CallMeBarrett


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 740
Location: Gainesville, Florida
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting rid of the ZBS is #1. Rodg, Cobb, Raji, Hayward are all locks for the future, but I can also see any of the young DBs being a huge part of this organization.


Draft?


C.


Then RB.


Then moar playmakerz.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7888
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the hate for ZBS. Does anybody honestly think having 5 power lineman who can't pass block a lick is what we need? I realize we don't run the ball well, but when we have a healthy Sitton and Bulaga we are good enough and I am a huge ZBS guy! Work together to make it happen, Houston runs a ZBS and run the football well, it's not the schemes fault. As far as the Draft, I really like Jon Cooper and Barrett Jones, we need some sort of consistent interior pass rusher. We could also use an ideal ZBS back. Going forward if we can get Hayward-House-Burnett-Perry-Shields to keep progressing this defense could be hell to deal with. Rodgers-Cobb-Sherrod-Bulaga-Running Game are the big parts to the offense that need to stay healthy and keep progressing.
_________________



Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3944
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNPackfan32 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for ZBS. Does anybody honestly think having 5 power lineman who can't pass block a lick is what we need? I realize we don't run the ball well, but when we have a healthy Sitton and Bulaga we are good enough and I am a huge ZBS guy! Work together to make it happen, Houston runs a ZBS and run the football well, it's not the schemes fault. As far as the Draft, I really like Jon Cooper and Barrett Jones, we need some sort of consistent interior pass rusher. We could also use an ideal ZBS back. Going forward if we can get Hayward-House-Burnett-Perry-Shields to keep progressing this defense could be hell to deal with. Rodgers-Cobb-Sherrod-Bulaga-Running Game are the big parts to the offense that need to stay healthy and keep progressing.


That unit is solid in pass pro. Using some metrics other than the eye ball test, you'll see that they're very solid. A lot of the sacks come from Rodgers holding the ball too long or receivers/tight ends missing their assignments. Throw Sherrod in, and we'll be fine.

But that doesn't mean we're not missing that piece at center, a guy who'll get to the second level in the ground game and has the mean streak to win one on ones. Jones brings that.
_________________
Simian07:
Quote:
I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Packerraymond


Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: UW Oshkosh
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Power blocking schemes are a way of the past. No way we get rid of the zbs and there is no reason to. There are few ZBS teams that runs strictly ZBS, and vice versa, most power schemes have some zone run looks as well.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MNPackfan32


Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 7888
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
I don't understand the hate for ZBS. Does anybody honestly think having 5 power lineman who can't pass block a lick is what we need? I realize we don't run the ball well, but when we have a healthy Sitton and Bulaga we are good enough and I am a huge ZBS guy! Work together to make it happen, Houston runs a ZBS and run the football well, it's not the schemes fault. As far as the Draft, I really like Jon Cooper and Barrett Jones, we need some sort of consistent interior pass rusher. We could also use an ideal ZBS back. Going forward if we can get Hayward-House-Burnett-Perry-Shields to keep progressing this defense could be hell to deal with. Rodgers-Cobb-Sherrod-Bulaga-Running Game are the big parts to the offense that need to stay healthy and keep progressing.


That unit is solid in pass pro. Using some metrics other than the eye ball test, you'll see that they're very solid. A lot of the sacks come from Rodgers holding the ball too long or receivers/tight ends missing their assignments. Throw Sherrod in, and we'll be fine.

But that doesn't mean we're not missing that piece at center, a guy who'll get to the second level in the ground game and has the mean streak to win one on ones. Jones brings that.
That's what I was trying to get at! We need young legs at center, but we currently have 4/5 to be a very solid pass pro line for many years! And if we add the right part at center we might not be half bad at running the ball.
_________________



Duff Man wrote:
MNPackfan32 wrote:
Josh Sitton, Mike Daniels

Average at best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jfinley88


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 11092
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Clay Matthews
3) Casey Hayward
4) BJ Raji
5) Josh Sitton
6) Randall Cobb
7) Jordy Nelson

These guys are the key guys we need to focus on keeping in Green Bay until they retire; we'll have to wait and see on Worthy, Perry, Sherrod...
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3645
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jfinley88 wrote:
1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Clay Matthews
3) Casey Hayward
4) BJ Raji
5) Josh Sitton
6) Randall Cobb
7) Jordy Nelson

These guys are the key guys we need to focus on keeping in Green Bay until they retire; we'll have to wait and see on Worthy, Perry, Sherrod...


Not so long ago Greg Jennings would have been on such a list. As recently as last season.
_________________
wgbeethree wrote:
In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10355
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sandybaby716 wrote:
jfinley88 wrote:
1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Clay Matthews
3) Casey Hayward
4) BJ Raji
5) Josh Sitton
6) Randall Cobb
7) Jordy Nelson

These guys are the key guys we need to focus on keeping in Green Bay until they retire; we'll have to wait and see on Worthy, Perry, Sherrod...


Not so long ago Greg Jennings would have been on such a list. As recently as last season.


For WRs it's value dependent. I don't think Nelson or Cobb would be worth the top end WR money. $10 mil a year is too much for that position.
_________________
Wilfred wrote:
Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3645
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making my own list, I'd include

Rodgers
Matthews
Cobb
Heyward
Raji

It's difficult. I didn't realize this team lost so much of the top heavy talent to age/ineffectiveness. I used to be able to make a very long list of players who were here for a long time and were playing at elite levels. Now there's a clear cut 1 and 2, but I'm shocked to see Cobb and Heyward take my 3 and 4 spots (and almost everyone elses). Usually I expect a longer period of high play to make such a list. How is Aaron not MVP when this team has regressed in so many of the other areas?

As for the future, we don't have man positions where we have a player who is bad. What I would like to see us add most are

Safety - After Woodson is gone the position can be improved. McMill and Doctor are decent, but both are likely better served as backups unless they improve a lot in the near future. I miss Collins so much.

LE/NT - I like Pickett and think he's in the prime of his career, but his contract expires next season at the same time as Raji and Matthews. Money may be tight and we may be better served to draft a replacement next season so they can be prepared to step in for full duty the following one.

WR - I think we bring Jennings back, but if we don't I think it would be a very wise investment. There should be good value picks in the first 3 rounds should Jennings not return.

OL - This is for depth and for the chance that EDS and Sherrod are not good enough to handle starting jobs. Only 3 positions are in stable and proven hands going into next season

RB - We need to bring in a ton of players and have an all out, no spot safe competition and try to find a hidden talent, the likes of which have been popping up all over the place the past few seasons.

TE - If Finley doesn't return and Quarless comes back as a lesser player (it happens - look at Finley) then we should have some sort of emergency plan at the position. Someone of the receiver type as we have Crabtree as the blocking type.
_________________
wgbeethree wrote:
In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sandybaby716


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 3645
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spilltray wrote:
Sandybaby716 wrote:
jfinley88 wrote:
1) Aaron Rodgers
2) Clay Matthews
3) Casey Hayward
4) BJ Raji
5) Josh Sitton
6) Randall Cobb
7) Jordy Nelson

These guys are the key guys we need to focus on keeping in Green Bay until they retire; we'll have to wait and see on Worthy, Perry, Sherrod...


Not so long ago Greg Jennings would have been on such a list. As recently as last season.


For WRs it's value dependent. I don't think Nelson or Cobb would be worth the top end WR money. $10 mil a year is too much for that position.


Cobb may be close to that even after his rookie contract ends. Most WRs don't hit their full stride until they've been in the league a few seasons. We may not even be seeing the best from him yet.
_________________
wgbeethree wrote:
In all fairness it is kind of rude to just lay injured at their feet while the Lions defensive players are trying to hold a completely unrelated dance party.

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Kuhn


Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 369
Location: UWM
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulaga? Masthay? Where's the love?

Boarderline elite talent at the positions they play and their 23 and 25 years old respectively.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Kuhn


Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 369
Location: UWM
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think without a doubt our biggest need go as following:

Tier 1: C
Tier 2: RB, DL
Tier 3: DB
Tier 4: TE, WR, LB



And there is a huge gap between the first and second tier. This isn't a team with a lot of needs and frankly the only ones I see where we could really improve talent are at that C and RB. DL is a Cullen Jenkins away from being an elite group and I think we potentially have 2 pro bowl caliber players in our secondary in Williams and Hayward and pending on progression Burnett/McMillian aren't far off of that.

EVEN IF we don't resign Jennings I think WR is set or near set with Nelson, Jones and Cobb. I don't see the value in going WR round 1.

Our #1 priority is protecting the MVP.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ECPackers


Joined: 24 Oct 2010
Posts: 1122
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you guys are insane.



this whole "we don't need greg jennings" things has to stop. you look like fools. it don't matter what ya say, jennings is the best WR on the team. probably the best WR in packers history. our offense is in shambles...and a large part of that is because jennings isn't out there. we need nelson too...
in fact.. we kinda need all of em.

i know it starts with our offensive line. but the truth is, we just have a selfish, stubborn GM, who don't wanna go outside his system, and don't ever wanna bring anyone in when we NEED it.


he built a great team, one that won the SB... but the fact is... he got lucky. and he thinks its gonna happen again. last year, we could've got one of the best RB's in the league. (lynch)... we could've gotten other OL that were very good...etc.



also, last year we had a team SO elite... we almost went undefeated. we knew our D was crap, and had no running game. all they had to do was bring in a vet or 2 and would've made a ton of difference. this is like the early 2000's all over again... could've should've would've won multiple championships, but in the end, the GM screwed the team over
_________________
GREEN BAY PACKERS
JARRET BUSH IS MY BOY!
Brewers
Bucks
Badgers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Kuhn


Joined: 07 Dec 2011
Posts: 369
Location: UWM
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ECPackers wrote:
you guys are insane.



this whole "we don't need greg jennings" things has to stop. you look like fools. it don't matter what ya say, jennings is the best WR on the team. probably the best WR in packers history. our offense is in shambles...and a large part of that is because jennings isn't out there. we need nelson too...
in fact.. we kinda need all of em.

i know it starts with our offensive line. but the truth is, we just have a selfish, stubborn GM, who don't wanna go outside his system, and don't ever wanna bring anyone in when we NEED it.


he built a great team, one that won the SB... but the fact is... he got lucky. and he thinks its gonna happen again. last year, we could've got one of the best RB's in the league. (lynch)... we could've gotten other OL that were very good...etc.



also, last year we had a team SO elite... we almost went undefeated. we knew our D was crap, and had no running game. all they had to do was bring in a vet or 2 and would've made a ton of difference. this is like the early 2000's all over again... could've should've would've won multiple championships, but in the end, the GM screwed the team over


Lemmie be the 1st to comment before these other guys rip you apart...

You'd be hard pressed to find a bigger Jennings fan then me. Love, and I mean LOVE Jennings, he is without a doubt the best WR on this team and one of our biggest leaders at that. For me, not resigning Jennings this offseason means that I never get to see my favorite WR, Packer and player in the league suit up for this team ever again.

THAT SAID, This offense can live, dare I say THRIVE without him. Look at the Texans game. I HIGHLY DOUBT you would have said any of this after that game. The fact is, we just have too many players in need of big contracts. Aaron should be payed like the best player in the league because he is the best player, and our D is nonexistant without Matthews. Jennings is maybe 4th most important behind ARod, CMIII, and BJ Raji and that is because we are so deep at WR.

The problems on this offense start up front. We don't have our best tackle in Bulaga and Sherrod hasn't had a chance to prove himself. Out 4th string tackle is starting for christsakes! Now, that isn't this unit's only problem. We lost our offensive line's leader in Wells and frankly, Saturday hasn't stepped up or really come close.

RB is one of those positions where you can find a gem in the later rounds, hell one of the best RB in the league (Foster) went undrafted!! TT knows that and thats why the highest he's drafted a RB was 2nd round. This is the same reason he hasnt drafted a WR in round one either.

As far as defense goes it all starts up front. This is a borderline elite secondary with a lot of ballhawks and they're being picked apart. That is because we have NO PASS RUSH outside of 1 player, Matthews. TT knows that as well and that is why he invested high picks in Perry and Worthy last year. We know what this group is capable of, this could be one of the best defenses in the league and was when we had another pass rusher in Jenkins.

My point is this is still a team that could be a dynasty. We've gotten screwed the past 3 years with injuries and we still win games. TT is the best GM in the league and you're a fool if you don't think so too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Green Bay Packers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group