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JPeppers90


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 763
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
chisoxguy7 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
This was taken from another site a transcript of the score,

Quote:
Terry and Dan both contended they heard from different places that Phil Emery has full GM power, that he does NOT need to consult with the McCaskeys to fire Lovie at the end of the season, and that he has unilateral football power in terms of being a real GM. Said Dan Pompei was flat wrong in terms of how firing Lovie would have to go through Emery, Phillips and Virginia McCaskey, and that if anyone tried to interfere with Emery making a firing of Lovie, Emery would probably resign because he was promised full football power by George McCaskey, and it was under the condition that he wait a year before he could exercise the power to fire Lovie.
'

So basically, Lovie's as good as gone.


Many have long had the conspiracy theory that Lovie would be gone after this season, because Emery drafted a 3-4 OLB with his first pick.

Emery was planning to hire a 3-4 coach before last years draft and was getting a head start on it.


Going to a 3-4 would kill or playoff chances for the next 3-4 years.


Is it killing the Colts playoff chances?

The Texans switched 2 seasons ago from a 4-3 that featured Mario Williams to a 3-4 and has made the playoffs both of those seasons.

It does not take 3-4 years to switch over a defense.

But to be honest we are going to have to replace most of our defensive players in the next couple of seasons any way.


Do we play in as weak a division?...swap out GB & Detroit for Jacksonville and Tennessee and we would be doing just as well...

Not only that...you mentioned the Texans...in 2011 the Texans spent their first 5 picks all on D in order to make that switch...if we do that how to we fix the Oline?


The Colts lost to Jacksonville and the Texans went to overtime this year and they have not played each other so the weak division arguement has holes.

The Colts converted this year, spent their first 4 picks on offense, signed journeymen defenders and beat everyone in our division except for us.

Where do you get this 3-4 year projection from?


You act like the Bears personnel can only play cover 2 and would be out of the league without it.


There is no holes in saying the NFC North is a better division top to bottom than the AFC South is…

The Bears hardly even play Cover 2 anymore…we play far more man coverage than we used too and our base D now is more Cover 3 than anything…I never said it takes 3-4 years to change a D from a 4-3 to a 3-4…I said we could forget the playoffs for 3-4 years because the amount of resources it would take to get the right parts here would deflect from helping the offence as well...

The fact some want to change the D currently ranked 5th overall in yards…3rd in points allowed & 1st in turnovers is crazy…the D isn’t the problem…the fact our offence is in its 1st year and has suffered significant injury throughout the year is the issue this team has…patience is very underrated.


Patience is over rated when you are running on the treadmill of mediocrity.

Lovie has had 9 years to build a balanced team that was a consistent playoff team and he has not done that.

So we allow him to fire his 4th OC and rebuild an offence again? Because whether you want to admit it or not our offences problems are not getting fixed. Mike Tice is really bad at calling plays.

I am not for blowing up the defence.

I am for a new head coach that can develop an offence, in less than 9 years, and if that comes with a new defence so be it.

And we do not even know if a new coach would blow the defence. If we bring in an offensive guy like Pete CarMichael he might choose to keep them.

But if it is between a fresh start for this team and keeping an aging defence in tact I choose a fresh start.


Yep
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 22723
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Patience is over rated when you are running on the treadmill of mediocrity.

Lovie has had 9 years to build a balanced team that was a consistent playoff team and he has not done that.

So we allow him to fire his 4th OC and rebuild an offence again? Because whether you want to admit it or not our offences problems are not getting fixed. Mike Tice is really bad at calling plays.

I am not for blowing up the defence.

I am for a new head coach that can develop an offence, in less than 9 years, and if that comes with a new defence so be it.

And we do not even know if a new coach would blow the defence. If we bring in an offensive guy like Pete CarMichael he might choose to keep them.

But if it is between a fresh start for this team and keeping an aging defence in tact I choose a fresh start.


If we try and turn our D into a 3-4 D then you are blowing up the D…

Lovie hasn’t had 9 years to build a team…Jerry Angelo did because at the end of the day he was the guy responsible for putting talent on the field…his inability to do so cost him his job…it would have been easy for the ownership to let Lovie go at the same time but they can see the value he brings as an HC…some of his hires have been poor...but I'm not even ready to include Tice in that statement...after only 13 games in the job...

You are willing to scarify a top D to get a more exiting offence on the field…an offence ran by someone who we don’t even know if he can be an HC and who has never even been the driving force behind the Saints offence.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9754
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Patience is over rated when you are running on the treadmill of mediocrity.

Lovie has had 9 years to build a balanced team that was a consistent playoff team and he has not done that.

So we allow him to fire his 4th OC and rebuild an offence again? Because whether you want to admit it or not our offences problems are not getting fixed. Mike Tice is really bad at calling plays.

I am not for blowing up the defence.

I am for a new head coach that can develop an offence, in less than 9 years, and if that comes with a new defence so be it.

And we do not even know if a new coach would blow the defence. If we bring in an offensive guy like Pete CarMichael he might choose to keep them.

But if it is between a fresh start for this team and keeping an aging defence in tact I choose a fresh start.


If we try and turn our D into a 3-4 D then you are blowing up the D…

Lovie hasn’t had 9 years to build a team…Jerry Angelo did because at the end of the day he was the guy responsible for putting talent on the field…his inability to do so cost him his job…it would have been easy for the ownership to let Lovie go at the same time but they can see the value he brings as an HC…some of his hires have been poor...but I'm not even ready to include Tice in that statement...after only 13 games in the job...

You are willing to scarify a top D to get a more exiting offence on the field…an offence ran by someone who we don’t even know if he can be an HC and who has never even been the driving force behind the Saints offence.



The defence is getting blown up anyway.

The defence has a couple of seasons left before the core of Briggs, Peppers and Tillman are gone and we are losing Urlacher this season.

This defence is not an infinite commodity it is going to end on its own.

I want to win in the playoffs an to do that we need a dynamic offence and I am willing to make whatever changes to do that.

The formula that we are using right now does not work.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 18829
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Patience is over rated when you are running on the treadmill of mediocrity.

Lovie has had 9 years to build a balanced team that was a consistent playoff team and he has not done that.

So we allow him to fire his 4th OC and rebuild an offence again? Because whether you want to admit it or not our offences problems are not getting fixed. Mike Tice is really bad at calling plays.

I am not for blowing up the defence.

I am for a new head coach that can develop an offence, in less than 9 years, and if that comes with a new defence so be it.

And we do not even know if a new coach would blow the defence. If we bring in an offensive guy like Pete CarMichael he might choose to keep them.

But if it is between a fresh start for this team and keeping an aging defence in tact I choose a fresh start.


If we try and turn our D into a 3-4 D then you are blowing up the D…

Lovie hasn’t had 9 years to build a team…Jerry Angelo did because at the end of the day he was the guy responsible for putting talent on the field…his inability to do so cost him his job…it would have been easy for the ownership to let Lovie go at the same time but they can see the value he brings as an HC…some of his hires have been poor...but I'm not even ready to include Tice in that statement...after only 13 games in the job...

You are willing to scarify a top D to get a more exiting offence on the field…an offence ran by someone who we don’t even know if he can be an HC and who has never even been the driving force behind the Saints offence.



The defence is getting blown up anyway.

The defence has a couple of seasons left before the core of Briggs, Peppers and Tillman are gone and we are losing Urlacher this season.

This defence is not an infinite commodity it is going to end on its own.

I want to win in the playoffs an to do that we need a dynamic offence and I am willing to make whatever changes to do that.

The formula that we are using right now does not work.


For a guy preaching patience he really does not want to wait does he? I guess we just need to be patient when it comes to Lovie. The rest doesnt matter. Laughing
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9754
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scapegoats for a lack of Bears success during the Lovie era,

Ron Turner
Mike Martz
Ron Rivera
Bob Babich
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Soon to be Mike Tice.

At some point the lack of consistent success falls at Lovie's feet and no amount of defensive success, in spite of team success, will save him
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Scapegoats for a lack of Bears success during the Lovie era,

Ron Turner
Mike Martz
Ron Rivera
Bob Babich
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Soon to be Mike Tice.

At some point the lack of consistent success falls at Lovie's feet and no amount of defensive success, in spite of team success, will save him
A) why do you include Ron Rivera who was never scapegoated at all, he was not retained after getting to the SuperBowl. Bob Babich was scapegoated by the fans, not by Lovie (not to mention Babich has been a pretty good LB coach his entire time here) So that leaves Ron Turner (hired by Jerry Angelo) & Jerry Angelo. What's the common denominator?
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Has anyone ever confirmed this, or is it just a wide spread assumption?
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I told you guys AZ was awesome...he in fact makes triple the pay I get for moderating here.
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Superman(DH23)


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Has anyone ever confirmed this, or is it just a wide spread assumption?
wide spread assumption, based on the Lovie's increased power in his 2nd contract. However what people who don't know the details don't realize is that Lovie's increased power was sole control over his coaches, only he could hire/fire them. This came after having 3 coordinators forced on him. He was never given more control in personnel.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Has anyone ever confirmed this, or is it just a wide spread assumption?
wide spread assumption, based on the Lovie's increased power in his 2nd contract. However what people who don't know the details don't realize is that Lovie's increased power was sole control over his coaches, only he could hire/fire them. This came after having 3 coordinators forced on him. He was never given more control in personnel.

Yeah that was always the way I saw it too.
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PacAttack04


Joined: 26 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, I always see Bears fans worried about the core of their defense. But as they replace their stars, they are going to have young players reaching their prime.

Guys like Henry Melton and Major Wright for sure I feel established they can always be playmakers on defense no matter the talent around them. At DE, you've invested in young talent such at Wootton as at LE, and McClein possibly at RE, and when guys like Idonije and Peppers leave, they could establish themselves as legitimate starting options. Paea is already at NT and he's shown some success and will likely be improving. Yes, there's a rebuild coming, but the team has slowly been adding high pickings, adding good young players, to the point where maybe when you replace Urlacher this year, you pick up a 3rd Round LB to eventually replace Briggs.

You say you need to rebuild, but Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs, and Tillman are still playing at a high level, so why not slowly replace them? I feel that's what you have been doing on the D-line, then you move onto the LBs or secondary. Rebuilds don't necessarily have to take a long time
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
chisoxguy7 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
chisoxguy7 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
This was taken from another site a transcript of the score,

Quote:
Terry and Dan both contended they heard from different places that Phil Emery has full GM power, that he does NOT need to consult with the McCaskeys to fire Lovie at the end of the season, and that he has unilateral football power in terms of being a real GM. Said Dan Pompei was flat wrong in terms of how firing Lovie would have to go through Emery, Phillips and Virginia McCaskey, and that if anyone tried to interfere with Emery making a firing of Lovie, Emery would probably resign because he was promised full football power by George McCaskey, and it was under the condition that he wait a year before he could exercise the power to fire Lovie.
'

So basically, Lovie's as good as gone.


Many have long had the conspiracy theory that Lovie would be gone after this season, because Emery drafted a 3-4 OLB with his first pick.

Emery was planning to hire a 3-4 coach before last years draft and was getting a head start on it.


Where does Marinelli fit in this equation?


If Lovie goes than everyone goes.

I don't think Marinelli is good enough to worry about.
Any incoming coach may keep some of these coaches but it would be there decision. I don't have any real beef with Marinelli staying.

It will be very interesting to see who is the Head Coach. The only way I see Smith staying is by winning the next three. And I expect to see a herd of pigs flying south for the winter past my window before I see that.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Patience is over rated when you are running on the treadmill of mediocrity.

Lovie has had 9 years to build a balanced team that was a consistent playoff team and he has not done that.

So we allow him to fire his 4th OC and rebuild an offence again? Because whether you want to admit it or not our offences problems are not getting fixed. Mike Tice is really bad at calling plays.

I am not for blowing up the defence.

I am for a new head coach that can develop an offence, in less than 9 years, and if that comes with a new defence so be it.

And we do not even know if a new coach would blow the defence. If we bring in an offensive guy like Pete CarMichael he might choose to keep them.

But if it is between a fresh start for this team and keeping an aging defence in tact I choose a fresh start.


If we try and turn our D into a 3-4 D then you are blowing up the D…

Lovie hasn’t had 9 years to build a team…Jerry Angelo did because at the end of the day he was the guy responsible for putting talent on the field…his inability to do so cost him his job…it would have been easy for the ownership to let Lovie go at the same time but they can see the value he brings as an HC…some of his hires have been poor...but I'm not even ready to include Tice in that statement...after only 13 games in the job...

You are willing to scarify a top D to get a more exiting offence on the field…an offence ran by someone who we don’t even know if he can be an HC and who has never even been the driving force behind the Saints offence.
Smith had as much or more to do with the Bears personnel as Angelo. Would Angelo, on his own, gone out and brought that hoard of over the hill bums from St Louis over here? NO. This team is Smith's team AS MUCH AS ANYONE.

His winning seasons are FAR too inconsistent for him to remain as coach of the Bears. Winning every other year is NOT good enough. He has been exposed once too often by another December collapse and people are tried of it. I am a mild critic compared to what is coming across the air waves on sports babble wrt to Smith.

Now is the time to decide who is going to be next.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Has anyone ever confirmed this, or is it just a wide spread assumption?
The parade of washed up, over the hill bums from the Rams confirms it. Do you seriously believe Angelo would have wasted time and money on them on his own?
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Jerry Angelo, not saying he was not to blame but he and Lovie worked together since the Superbowl on personnel.

Has anyone ever confirmed this, or is it just a wide spread assumption?
wide spread assumption, based on the Lovie's increased power in his 2nd contract. However what people who don't know the details don't realize is that Lovie's increased power was sole control over his coaches, only he could hire/fire them. This came after having 3 coordinators forced on him. He was never given more control in personnel.
There is not a player taken whom Lovie did either instigate or sign off on. If you believe otherwise just look at the dismal ex-Rams who traipsed through here. None of those were Angelo's ideas but old Smith cronies.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PacAttack04 wrote:
I mean, I always see Bears fans worried about the core of their defense. But as they replace their stars, they are going to have young players reaching their prime.

Guys like Henry Melton and Major Wright for sure I feel established they can always be playmakers on defense no matter the talent around them. At DE, you've invested in young talent such at Wootton as at LE, and McClein possibly at RE, and when guys like Idonije and Peppers leave, they could establish themselves as legitimate starting options. Paea is already at NT and he's shown some success and will likely be improving. Yes, there's a rebuild coming, but the team has slowly been adding high pickings, adding good young players, to the point where maybe when you replace Urlacher this year, you pick up a 3rd Round LB to eventually replace Briggs.

You say you need to rebuild, but Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs, and Tillman are still playing at a high level, so why not slowly replace them? I feel that's what you have been doing on the D-line, then you move onto the LBs or secondary. Rebuilds don't necessarily have to take a long time


Exactly…but some don’t have the patience to see that.
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