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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Lovie is not an idiot and he is not a bad football coach.

He is just not the guy who is going to turn the Bears into a top tier team. He has had 9 years and we are still incredibly inconsistent.

We need a new voice, a new vision and someone who can lead us to being a competent offense. Lovie has been given more than enough time and it is time for a change.

Andy Ried is not an idiot or a bad coach and he has been to 4 NFCCG and a Superbowl, but after 10 years or more you start to realize that while your coach is good he is not good enough.

I appreciate the comments of the last 2 posters.

Competent offense would be great - nobody will disagree with that - but if it comes at the expense of competent defense then how is the team any better off? An incomplete team is an incomplete team regardless of where the deficiencies lie.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Lovie is not an idiot and he is not a bad football coach.

He is just not the guy who is going to turn the Bears into a top tier team. He has had 9 years and we are still incredibly inconsistent.

We need a new voice, a new vision and someone who can lead us to being a competent offense. Lovie has been given more than enough time and it is time for a change.

Andy Ried is not an idiot or a bad coach and he has been to 4 NFCCG and a Superbowl, but after 10 years or more you start to realize that while your coach is good he is not good enough.

I appreciate the comments of the last 2 posters.

Competent offense would be great - nobody will disagree with that - but if it comes at the expense of competent defense then how is the team any better off? An incomplete team is an incomplete team regardless of where the deficiencies lie.


But you are assuming the next coach cannot maintain the defence. You are assuming that he won't hire a really good defensive coordinator. Lovie is not the only guy in the league that can coach defence.

I an not assuming that Lovie is never going to build an offence. Lovie has had 9 years to bring balance to this team and has failed.

It is time to give someone else a shot to do it.

I really don't hate Lovie, but after 9 years I am fairly certain he is never going to lead us to where we need to go.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know what Lovie brings us 9-7 football, playoffs 25% of the time and good defence and no offence.

We don't know what a new coach will bring it could be worse but it also could be better.

It is scary but we know Lovie's way is good but not good enough we need to take a risk to get to elite level.

The Ravens fired Brian Billick in 2007 despite being competitive because they knew he was not going to get them back to the Superbowl and they hired John Harbaugh now they are an contender every year.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Lovie is not an idiot and he is not a bad football coach.

He is just not the guy who is going to turn the Bears into a top tier team. He has had 9 years and we are still incredibly inconsistent.

We need a new voice, a new vision and someone who can lead us to being a competent offense. Lovie has been given more than enough time and it is time for a change.

Andy Ried is not an idiot or a bad coach and he has been to 4 NFCCG and a Superbowl, but after 10 years or more you start to realize that while your coach is good he is not good enough.

I appreciate the comments of the last 2 posters.

Competent offense would be great - nobody will disagree with that - but if it comes at the expense of competent defense then how is the team any better off? An incomplete team is an incomplete team regardless of where the deficiencies lie.


But you are assuming the next coach cannot maintain the defence. You are assuming that he won't hire a really good defensive coordinator. Lovie is not the only guy in the league that can coach defence.

I an not assuming that Lovie is never going to build an offence. Lovie has had 9 years to bring balance to this team and has failed.

It is time to give someone else a shot to do it.

I really don't hate Lovie, but after 9 years I am fairly certain he is never going to lead us to where we need to go.


But at the same time you are presuming that the next coach could maintain the quality we have had on D...or that the next head coach will be a good one...

And it has never been Lovie's job to "build" an offence...that is on the GM to provide the talent to do so...before this year we are extremely talent deficient on the outside and Emery fixed that in one year...now we are still extremely talent deficient on the Oline...if Emery fixes that we might have half a chance to have a good offence but until we have the talent to do so no one should be thrown under the bus.
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Superman(DH23)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
We know what Lovie brings us 9-7 football, playoffs 25% of the time and good defence and no offence.

We don't know what a new coach will bring it could be worse but it also could be better.

It is scary but we know Lovie's way is good but not good enough we need to take a risk to get to elite level.

The Ravens fired Brian Billick in 2007 despite being competitive because they knew he was not going to get them back to the Superbowl and they hired John Harbaugh now they are an contender every year.
I'm curious why you say playoffs 25% of the time when it's much closer to 50%
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superman(DH23) wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
We know what Lovie brings us 9-7 football, playoffs 25% of the time and good defence and no offence.

We don't know what a new coach will bring it could be worse but it also could be better.

It is scary but we know Lovie's way is good but not good enough we need to take a risk to get to elite level.

The Ravens fired Brian Billick in 2007 despite being competitive because they knew he was not going to get them back to the Superbowl and they hired John Harbaugh now they are an contender every year.
I'm curious why you say playoffs 25% of the time when it's much closer to 50%


It is 37% right now.

And 33% if we miss this season.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."


Last edited by WindyCity on Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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WindyCity


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Posts: 9596
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Lovie is not an idiot and he is not a bad football coach.

He is just not the guy who is going to turn the Bears into a top tier team. He has had 9 years and we are still incredibly inconsistent.

We need a new voice, a new vision and someone who can lead us to being a competent offense. Lovie has been given more than enough time and it is time for a change.

Andy Ried is not an idiot or a bad coach and he has been to 4 NFCCG and a Superbowl, but after 10 years or more you start to realize that while your coach is good he is not good enough.

I appreciate the comments of the last 2 posters.

Competent offense would be great - nobody will disagree with that - but if it comes at the expense of competent defense then how is the team any better off? An incomplete team is an incomplete team regardless of where the deficiencies lie.


But you are assuming the next coach cannot maintain the defence. You are assuming that he won't hire a really good defensive coordinator. Lovie is not the only guy in the league that can coach defence.

I an not assuming that Lovie is never going to build an offence. Lovie has had 9 years to bring balance to this team and has failed.

It is time to give someone else a shot to do it.

I really don't hate Lovie, but after 9 years I am fairly certain he is never going to lead us to where we need to go.


But at the same time you are presuming that the next coach could maintain the quality we have had on D...or that the next head coach will be a good one...

And it has never been Lovie's job to "build" an offence...that is on the GM to provide the talent to do so...before this year we are extremely talent deficient on the outside and Emery fixed that in one year...now we are still extremely talent deficient on the Oline...if Emery fixes that we might have half a chance to have a good offence but until we have the talent to do so no one should be thrown under the bus.


My point is that we do not know what the new coach will bring. He could be bad or he could be elite like Harbaugh.

But we know what we have in Lovie and it is mediocre and not elite or that he provides mediocre results.

We need to take the risk to get over the hump of being a tier 2 team.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovie is like an okay paying job that is not going anywhere. You are comfortable and you know what you are going to get. But you are never going to get where you really want to be in life.

We need to go out and look for something better and take a risk in finding a new job.

And yes we could end up working at McDonalds (Crennel) or we could end up with our dream job (Tomlin/Harbaugh) and everything that we want. It is always worth the risk to get what you want.

Right now I truly feel Lovie gives us a 0% chance to win the Superbowl he is a 9-7 coach who goes to the playoffs 35% of the time.
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WindyCity "He will start week 1 because while he is raw he is shockingly athletic and can pass block. Long is a bigger risk than Cooper and Warmack, but I think he has just as high a ceiling."
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But mike you clearly believe that with improved offensive talent that Lovie is capable of winning a Superbowl so we are never going to agree on this point. We are just going to have to sit back and watch the show.

And again I think Lovie is a fine football coach, but after 9 years I am ready to try and land our own Mike Tomlin even is we miss I want to swing for the fences as the years without a Superbowl win tick upwards past 27.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
My point is that we do not know what the new coach will bring. He could be bad or he could be elite like Harbaugh.

But we know what we have in Lovie and it is mediocre and not elite or that he provides mediocre results.

We need to take the risk to get over the hump of being a tier 2 team.


Harbaugh is elite because he has elite talent…

Look at the Starters…

QB 1st overall pick or high 2nd round pick (36th overall)
RB…high 3rd round pick (65th overall)
TE…top 5 pick
WR…top 10 pick (3 more 1st round picks on roster)
LT…1st round pick
LG…1st round pick
C…5th round pick
RG…undrafted
RT…1st round pick (11th overall)

LE…3rd round pick
NT…4th round pick
RE…top 5 pick
LOLB…3rd round pick
ILB…3rd round pick
ILB…1st round pick (11th overall)
ROLB…top 8 pick
CB…top 10 pick
CB…3rd round pick
SS…top 8 pick
FS…4th round pick

If you put that amount of talent into Lovie’s hands I guarantee he would do just as good a job…and I expect Emery to be able to put that kind of talent into Lovie’s hands in time.
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pigsooie5


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My point is that we do not know what the new coach will bring. He could be bad or he could be elite like Harbaugh.

But we know what we have in Lovie and it is mediocre and not elite or that he provides mediocre results.

We need to take the risk to get over the hump of being a tier 2 team.


Harbaugh is elite because he has elite talent…

Look at the Starters…

QB 1st overall pick or high 2nd round pick (36th overall)
RB…high 3rd round pick (65th overall)
TE…top 5 pick
WR…top 10 pick (3 more 1st round picks on roster)
LT…1st round pick
LG…1st round pick
C…5th round pick
RG…undrafted
RT…1st round pick (11th overall)

LE…3rd round pick
NT…4th round pick
RE…top 5 pick
LOLB…3rd round pick
ILB…3rd round pick
ILB…1st round pick (11th overall)
ROLB…top 8 pick
CB…top 10 pick
CB…3rd round pick
SS…top 8 pick
FS…4th round pick

If you put that amount of talent into Lovie’s hands I guarantee he would do just as good a job…and I expect Emery to be able to put that kind of talent into Lovie’s hands in time.

If you don't think Harbaugh would be elite in chicago, I don't know what to tell you... and putting the offense like that doesn't prove your point.

QB- top 10 pick
RB- 2nd round pick
FB- 4th round pick
TE- no answer Laughing
WR- We clearly have superior talent
LT- Chris Williams=1st round pick, Webb= FAIL
LG- Spencer=1st round pick
C- captain
RG- 6th round pick
RT- 1st round pick

As a head Coach, if you continuesly FAIL at rallying the coaches UNDER you(Turner, Martz, Tice), you FAIL. I guarantee you Harbaugh would take this team deep in the playoffs.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigsooie5 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My point is that we do not know what the new coach will bring. He could be bad or he could be elite like Harbaugh.

But we know what we have in Lovie and it is mediocre and not elite or that he provides mediocre results.

We need to take the risk to get over the hump of being a tier 2 team.


Harbaugh is elite because he has elite talent…

Look at the Starters…

QB 1st overall pick or high 2nd round pick (36th overall)
RB…high 3rd round pick (65th overall)
TE…top 5 pick
WR…top 10 pick (3 more 1st round picks on roster)
LT…1st round pick
LG…1st round pick
C…5th round pick
RG…undrafted
RT…1st round pick (11th overall)

LE…3rd round pick
NT…4th round pick
RE…top 5 pick
LOLB…3rd round pick
ILB…3rd round pick
ILB…1st round pick (11th overall)
ROLB…top 8 pick
CB…top 10 pick
CB…3rd round pick
SS…top 8 pick
FS…4th round pick

If you put that amount of talent into Lovie’s hands I guarantee he would do just as good a job…and I expect Emery to be able to put that kind of talent into Lovie’s hands in time.

If you don't think Harbaugh would be elite in chicago, I don't know what to tell you... and putting the offense like that doesn't prove your point.

QB- top 10 pick
RB- 2nd round pick
FB- 4th round pick
TE- no answer Laughing
WR- We clearly have superior talent
LT- Chris Williams=1st round pick, Webb= FAIL
LG- Spencer=1st round pick
C- captain
RG- 6th round pick
RT- 1st round pick

As a head Coach, if you continuesly FAIL at rallying the coaches UNDER you(Turner, Martz, Tice), you FAIL. I guarantee you Harbaugh would take this team deep in the playoffs.


To start with Williams isn't even on the team anymore so you can take that off for starters...Spencer isn't starting either so there is two of the 1st rounders gone...leaving two 1st rounders on the entire offence...

Not only that but you say posting the difference in talent doesn't prove anything...are you saying the Bears wouldn't be better with the amount of talent on the 49ers team right now with Lovie as HC?
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BEARS24


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 5036
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want absolutly nothing to do with Andy Reid...

If you ignore McCoy, you will ignore Forte...
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9596
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
pigsooie5 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
My point is that we do not know what the new coach will bring. He could be bad or he could be elite like Harbaugh.

But we know what we have in Lovie and it is mediocre and not elite or that he provides mediocre results.

We need to take the risk to get over the hump of being a tier 2 team.


Harbaugh is elite because he has elite talent…

Look at the Starters…

QB 1st overall pick or high 2nd round pick (36th overall)
RB…high 3rd round pick (65th overall)
TE…top 5 pick
WR…top 10 pick (3 more 1st round picks on roster)
LT…1st round pick
LG…1st round pick
C…5th round pick
RG…undrafted
RT…1st round pick (11th overall)

LE…3rd round pick
NT…4th round pick
RE…top 5 pick
LOLB…3rd round pick
ILB…3rd round pick
ILB…1st round pick (11th overall)
ROLB…top 8 pick
CB…top 10 pick
CB…3rd round pick
SS…top 8 pick
FS…4th round pick

If you put that amount of talent into Lovie’s hands I guarantee he would do just as good a job…and I expect Emery to be able to put that kind of talent into Lovie’s hands in time.

If you don't think Harbaugh would be elite in chicago, I don't know what to tell you... and putting the offense like that doesn't prove your point.

QB- top 10 pick
RB- 2nd round pick
FB- 4th round pick
TE- no answer Laughing
WR- We clearly have superior talent
LT- Chris Williams=1st round pick, Webb= FAIL
LG- Spencer=1st round pick
C- captain
RG- 6th round pick
RT- 1st round pick

As a head Coach, if you continuesly FAIL at rallying the coaches UNDER you(Turner, Martz, Tice), you FAIL. I guarantee you Harbaugh would take this team deep in the playoffs.


To start with Williams isn't even on the team anymore so you can take that off for starters...Spencer isn't starting either so there is two of the 1st rounders gone...leaving two 1st rounders on the entire offence...

Not only that but you say posting the difference in talent doesn't prove anything...are you saying the Bears wouldn't be better with the amount of talent on the 49ers team right now with Lovie as HC?


The problem is with 9 years on the job Lovie is at least partly responsible for the lack of talent.

I hate Jerry Angelo more than most, but I also know who was sitting in the chair beside him.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7846
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BEARS24 wrote:
My opinion on the whole situation of Lovie...

Lovie Smith has been a faithful and excellent coach to one of the most illustrious and difficult teams to coach in all of team based sport, but in a town that expects so much he has not delivered the number one prize and it is wearing thin on many level headed fans here on FF

I don't think of myself as irrational and hot headed, and I hope that my posts on this site have reflected this, so my calls for a change at HC have been made with thought on how it could affect the team both positively and adversely as well

MM90 stated that Lovie is great 1 on 1 with the players, but when you get too comfortable in a job weather it be as a bag boy or an exec, you get complacent, so I think a new culture needs to be brought in especially with arguably the dawning of a new era in Chicago

Let me preface this next passage by saying this. My whole love of football stems from Brian Urlacher. He is the reason I started watching the game, why I wanted to play Linebacker when I first began to play football and why the Bears are my favorite sports team on the planet win or lose. But I think he will be gone this season, and I think it will be the right time for the team to move on and usher in a new era where we catch up with the rest of the NFL.

Emery was the beginning of this new era, and he showed he knows what it takes to be a championship calibre team in this day and age, with his immediate display of daylight robbery, or as it is more commonly referred to, the Brandon Marshall trade.

However, there is only so much a GM can do and it is down to the coach to handle his team throughout the season. Fact is we have not performed particularly well against quality opponents, and the playoffs is the cream of the crop, and a place we do not deserve to be.

Individual players have been outstanding this year ie: Brandon Marshall and units have been on fire as well, but there has been a slow down and there has to be a reason why. Not to say that the team is comfortable with losing, but it seems that there will be no desire to become great at this time, and I think the first step to a new mentality in the team is to bring in a new coach and re-form the o-line, a job that has been put off for years, and this is a fact that still to this day baffles me.

Who this man will be, I do not know, but anyone who comes to Chicago will have to know the size of the task they have at hand, even with a winning team, fans and media will treat you like you are yet to win a game in your career, I trust Emery to make the right decision in this regard when discussing it the relevant higher ups in the franchise.

Some things should be left somewhat alone, that being the defense and the fact that we run a 4 -3, but things as simple as pressing at the line could have prevented so many obvious scores, and its a change that Lovie is not willing to make. I am sure people will argue the advantages of not doing it as well and more knowledgeable posters will say that we do not have the personnel to do this as well but something as got to give, and the prevent D has got to be thrown out of the playbook, I can't explain how badly I want to headbutt whoever thought of the concept of it.

Finally, the biggest reason for our lack of sustainable success is that prick Angelo. I forget who posted it, but they were right in saying that it will take at least a few years to wash the stink of his term as GM off our team, but regardless he has dug us into too many holes and deserves to never manage a team again, even a team of huskies in the north pole pulling him from the winter abyss we should all put him in.

Overall, all I want is change because the current formula has been very hit and miss. the time for a new era in Chicago is now and we need to strike while the iron is hot. Sustainable success is the one thing we all want as Bears fans and it needs to be built from the ground up rather than filling in the gaps.
But for the animosity towards Angelo that was an excellent post. The only players left from him are mostly good players. It does not take long to change a team's personnel.
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