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Wes Welker Circa 2012.
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:

If Victor Cruz according to you was a slot receiver last season with 46.8% of his snaps coming out of the slot then how the hell is he no longer a slot receiver with an INCREASE of snaps out of the slot to 69%? Laughing


Because quite frankly, I have absolutely no idea where you got that chart, considering I'm looking at PFF's slot numbers right now, and is shows something completely different from what you posted. He saw a decrease in percentage of snaps in the slot from '11 to '12, not an increase. Your chart is either inaccurate, or is measuring something different than what I have pulled up.
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8808
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
PowerElite wrote:

If Victor Cruz according to you was a slot receiver last season with 46.8% of his snaps coming out of the slot then how the hell is he no longer a slot receiver with an INCREASE of snaps out of the slot to 69%? Laughing


Because quite frankly, I have absolutely no idea where you got that chart, considering I'm looking at PFF's slot numbers right now, and is shows something completely different from what you posted. He saw a decrease in percentage of snaps in the slot from '11 to '12, not an increase. Your chart is either inaccurate, or is measuring something different than what I have pulled up.


The chart that I posted is the only factual evidence for the 2011 slot receiver position in the NFL until someone shows a different screen capture chart. Your posts mean about as much as you arbitrarily calling Cruz not a slot receiver when I clearly posted a chart which shows differently, which also includes many other receivers. You are claiming to have something but appear to be bluffing. Laughing

Here's the slot snaps for 2010 where Welker is only 9th
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/02/slot-receivers/
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 16166
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Here's the slot snaps for 2010 where Welker is only 9th
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/02/slot-receivers/
That was the year he was recovering from his torn ACL. He only played about 70% of the offensive snaps.
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
PowerElite wrote:

If Victor Cruz according to you was a slot receiver last season with 46.8% of his snaps coming out of the slot then how the hell is he no longer a slot receiver with an INCREASE of snaps out of the slot to 69%? Laughing


Because quite frankly, I have absolutely no idea where you got that chart, considering I'm looking at PFF's slot numbers right now, and is shows something completely different from what you posted. He saw a decrease in percentage of snaps in the slot from '11 to '12, not an increase. Your chart is either inaccurate, or is measuring something different than what I have pulled up.


The chart that I posted is the only factual evidence for the 2011 slot receiver position in the NFL until someone shows a different screen capture chart. Your posts mean about as much as you arbitrarily calling Cruz not a slot receiver when I clearly posted a chart which shows differently, which also includes many other receivers. You are claiming to have something but appear to be bluffing. Laughing

Here's the slot snaps for 2010 where Welker is only 9th
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/02/slot-receivers/


I'm using PFF's signature stats because I have premium. If I actually posted a screenshot of it, I'd get in trouble for posting copyrighted material you have to pay for, so I'm not going to mess around with that.
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8808
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
PowerElite wrote:
Jakuvious wrote:
PowerElite wrote:

If Victor Cruz according to you was a slot receiver last season with 46.8% of his snaps coming out of the slot then how the hell is he no longer a slot receiver with an INCREASE of snaps out of the slot to 69%? Laughing


Because quite frankly, I have absolutely no idea where you got that chart, considering I'm looking at PFF's slot numbers right now, and is shows something completely different from what you posted. He saw a decrease in percentage of snaps in the slot from '11 to '12, not an increase. Your chart is either inaccurate, or is measuring something different than what I have pulled up.


The chart that I posted is the only factual evidence for the 2011 slot receiver position in the NFL until someone shows a different screen capture chart. Your posts mean about as much as you arbitrarily calling Cruz not a slot receiver when I clearly posted a chart which shows differently, which also includes many other receivers. You are claiming to have something but appear to be bluffing. Laughing

Here's the slot snaps for 2010 where Welker is only 9th
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/02/slot-receivers/


I'm using PFF's signature stats because I have premium. If I actually posted a screenshot of it, I'd get in trouble for posting copyrighted material you have to pay for, so I'm not going to mess around with that.


That chart is from PFF so apparently you are lying... Way to go buddy... BTW news papers around the country post PFF screen shots. But you an anonymous forum member fear being targeted for something newspapers do...
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Jakuvious


Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Posts: 15324
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:

That chart is from PFF so apparently you are lying... Way to go buddy... BTW news papers around the country post PFF screen shots. But you an anonymous forum member fear being targeted for something newspapers do...


The chart you posted includes snaps as run blockers, while the statistics I mentioned were exclusively of pass routes run. The former, they do not seem to consistently record in their signature statistics, while the latter, they do.

I was already told once in the KC forum not to do it, so I have valid reason. Newspapers get express permission for that to avoid lawsuit.
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nextsuperstar


Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Posts: 1860
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
PowerElite wrote:

That chart is from PFF so apparently you are lying... Way to go buddy... BTW news papers around the country post PFF screen shots. But you an anonymous forum member fear being targeted for something newspapers do...


The chart you posted includes snaps as run blockers, while the statistics I mentioned were exclusively of pass routes run. The former, they do not seem to consistently record in their signature statistics, while the latter, they do.

I was already told once in the KC forum not to do it, so I have valid reason. Newspapers get express permission for that to avoid lawsuit.


Cruz has run 440 routes in the slot this year. He is in the slot 69.5% of the time. Welker (this year) has run 438 routes in the slot, 83.1% of his routes. They are both slot receivers.

Last year Welker ran 70.3% of his routes in the slot, while Cruz ran 72.5% of his routes there.

Both are and continue to be Slot Receivers. Can we move away from this argument now?
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8808
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChazStandard appears to have bailed out. BTW 69% of snaps out of the slot constitutes a majority, so even according to you Victor Cruz is running the majority of his routes out of the slot. What is being argued here? A race to see who can get the most snaps out of the slot? Laughing
This is like trying to knock Marshall Faulk from contention of being one of the best RBs ever because he lined up at WR so frequently. Versatility is a plus. Cruz being able to produce on the outside against the best cornerbacks in the NFL is a major advantage. He can exit the huddle and be aligned anywhere. That's hard to gameplan against... So Percy Harvin isn't a slot receiver because he takes snaps at runningback and outside receiver?
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 8152
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
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SupeRG00F


Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Posts: 2172
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
By that do you mean not understand what you think we should? Why is your opinion right?
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 8152
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
By that do you mean not understand what you think we should? Why is your opinion right?

What ?? He runs primarily OPTION routes...do you know what that means ?? That's not an opinion, that's cold hard fact. To say he's a product of the system just proves you have no clue what you're talking about, or that you have no idea what option routes are. Either way....you're lacking somewhere Laughing
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SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
(In reference to uncertainty surrounding Deflategate) Next thing you know these same people are going to start saying the Holocaust is nothing but speculation.

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SupeRG00F


Joined: 12 Aug 2012
Posts: 2172
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FirstDownFaulk wrote:
SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
By that do you mean not understand what you think we should? Why is your opinion right?

What ?? He runs primarily OPTION routes...do you know what that means and takes to be successful ??
And who else is having success with that? No one is as good as Welker at disecting the D and being where he needs to be. If it was so simple then more teams would be running this type of offense. It's just sad that you're dismissing it.
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FirstDownFaulk


Joined: 25 Jul 2010
Posts: 8152
Location: New York
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
By that do you mean not understand what you think we should? Why is your opinion right?

What ?? He runs primarily OPTION routes...do you know what that means and takes to be successful ??
And who else is having success with that? No one is as good as Welker at disecting the D and being where he needs to be. If it was so simple then more teams would be running this type of offense. It's just sad that you're dismissing it.

Wait...i think you're missing something here. I'm saying he's NOT a product of the system and his success/production is a result of his abilities.

I'm pro-Welker in here Laughing
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PowerElite


Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8808
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
SupeRG00F wrote:
FirstDownFaulk wrote:
It's unreal how so many of you simply don't get it....
By that do you mean not understand what you think we should? Why is your opinion right?

What ?? He runs primarily OPTION routes...do you know what that means and takes to be successful ??
And who else is having success with that? No one is as good as Welker at disecting the D and being where he needs to be. If it was so simple then more teams would be running this type of offense. It's just sad that you're dismissing it.


The Giants run the same offensive system.

"I can't cover option routes all day!" Carlos Rogers 2012 NFC Championship game vs. Victor Cruz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf3TWlN409E
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ChazStandard


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 7095
Location: The bandwagon, hop on up!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PowerElite wrote:
ChazStandard appears to have bailed out. BTW 69% of snaps out of the slot constitutes a majority, so even according to you Victor Cruz is running the majority of his routes out of the slot. What is being argued here? A race to see who can get the most snaps out of the slot? Laughing
This is like trying to knock Marshall Faulk from contention of being one of the best RBs ever because he lined up at WR so frequently. Versatility is a plus. Cruz being able to produce on the outside against the best cornerbacks in the NFL is a major advantage. He can exit the huddle and be aligned anywhere. That's hard to gameplan against... So Percy Harvin isn't a slot receiver because he takes snaps at runningback and outside receiver?


Bailed out from what? I'm not arguing with you. I haven't disagreed with anything you've said. I have literally no idea what you mean by that. All I did was say that short guys never post big TD numbers (which is true).
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