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Troy Brown
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 31305
Location: Newport, Rhode Island
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 Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I can't respond to that whole thing right now, I've got an exam in a couple minutes, but let me rephrase
He's the first guy to change the way people look at slot receivers. He's the best slot receiver we've seen thus far. Obviously other guys have played primarily out of the slot but you don't hear teams talk about wanting to find their Ricky Proehl. Teams want to find the newest Wes Welker.
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Raidin
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| tonyto3690 wrote: | Welker is the only player with three 110+ catch seasons. He did the three consecutively, blew out his knee, was expected to miss half the season, came back started game 1 and had 86 receptions. The next year he had 122. This year he's projected to have 123.
Had he not blown his knee out, and if he even slows down this years production, he would have had 6 consecutive seasons of 110+ catches. Again, no one has had even three non-consecutive. Not Jerry Rice, not Marvin Harrison.
To say Welker is a system player is absurd. No one comes even close to the level of production that he puts up year in and year out. Lets not forget that when Brady went out he still had 111 catches for 1165 yards. He would be successful anywhere and with anyone. |
If Rice had #3 corner backs covering them they would have put up far more receptions than 110.
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| raidr4life wrote: | | Imagine if EricAllen21 posted better. Just imagine. |
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RedskinOP
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Hall of Fame? Not a chance.
Hall of very good? Sure.
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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 8743
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| The next 5 years? Is everyone sure he is going to be on the Patriots in the next 5 years? |
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The Cryptkeeper
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 2464
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Troy Brown wrote: | I can't respond to that whole thing right now, I've got an exam in a couple minutes, but let me rephrase
He's the first guy to change the way people look at slot receivers. He's the best slot receiver we've seen thus far. Obviously other guys have played primarily out of the slot but you don't hear teams talk about wanting to find their Ricky Proehl. Teams want to find the newest Wes Welker. |
Him being the "prototype" and the standard all other slot Wr's are compared to really helps his chances, there's no doubt about that.
He's just up against the wall time-wise. If he can go 4-5 years, he'll probably get in. He'd be top 5 all time in receptions, one of the most well known players on one of the league's winningest teams, and that winning team happens to be a big-ticket franchise for the league. |
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tonyto3690
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Posts: 5506
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | tonyto3690 wrote: | Welker is the only player with three 110+ catch seasons. He did the three consecutively, blew out his knee, was expected to miss half the season, came back started game 1 and had 86 receptions. The next year he had 122. This year he's projected to have 123.
Had he not blown his knee out, and if he even slows down this years production, he would have had 6 consecutive seasons of 110+ catches. Again, no one has had even three non-consecutive. Not Jerry Rice, not Marvin Harrison.
To say Welker is a system player is absurd. No one comes even close to the level of production that he puts up year in and year out. Lets not forget that when Brady went out he still had 111 catches for 1165 yards. He would be successful anywhere and with anyone. |
If Rice had #3 corner backs covering them they would have put up far more receptions than 110. |
That'd be relevant if that happened to welker.
Welker is matched up against revis almost exclusively when we play the jets. Against the Seahawks, bower/Sherman were on him almost the entire game. Welker sometimes get matchups against #3 guys but that's true for every wr ever
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| C0LTSFAN4L1F3 wrote: |
Drew Brees IS the most accurate qb ever |
Brees that night:
28/50, 341 yards, 0 TD, 5 INT. |
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CP3MVP
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 1821
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| x0x wrote: | Fact is, Welker is getting All-Pro nods.
For guys outside of special teams, once you get into the region of 5+ All-Pros, the chance of Hall of Fame induction is high.
He's got 4 All-Pros, two of them 1st Team.
That's key. Winning two Super Bowls would have gone a long way too, but we'll keep away from that discussion.
His playoff numbers are decent to add to all of that. |
Yup. He's going to he at least a 7X all pro IMO and lead the league in catches a few more times. Aside from Rice and Harrison who would have more all pro selections at the WR position? Dude has 4 on his way to 5 right now |
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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 8743
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| CP3MVP wrote: | | x0x wrote: | Fact is, Welker is getting All-Pro nods.
For guys outside of special teams, once you get into the region of 5+ All-Pros, the chance of Hall of Fame induction is high.
He's got 4 All-Pros, two of them 1st Team.
That's key. Winning two Super Bowls would have gone a long way too, but we'll keep away from that discussion.
His playoff numbers are decent to add to all of that. |
Yup. He's going to he at least a 7X all pro IMO and lead the league in catches a few more times. Aside from Rice and Harrison who would have more all pro selections at the WR position? Dude has 4 on his way to 5 right now |
Andre Johnson. Larry Fitzgeral if ever gets QB. |
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TomRalph
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 12715
Location: #TheyHateUsCuzTheyAintUs
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Raidin wrote: | | tonyto3690 wrote: |
Had he not blown his knee out, and if he even slows down this years production, he would have had 6 consecutive seasons of 110+ catches. Again, no one has had even three non-consecutive. Not Jerry Rice, not Marvin Harrison. |
If Rice had #3 corner backs covering them they would have put up far more receptions than 110. |
What is this? I don't even.
Wes Welker is the Pats #1 WR, regardless of if he's 5'9" or 6'5" like Calvin or where he lines up. The #1 WR is the first option of the QB on passing plays, and that is usually Welker.
Welker produces like any elite WR in the NFL, but because he's small, because he's white and because he doesn't run a 4.5 or less, he's considered a system player.
Has Brady helped his career? Undoubtedly, but it's not WW's fault that that Pats surround him with a QB who can get him the ball.
Can't stand the 'Not a #1 WR' or the 'System' or the 'Elite Slot WR only' arguments. Wes produces like the elite WR's, has done for as long as the elite WR's and is never considered an elite WR. Madness.
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rabbisson
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28904
Location: #PoWwW York City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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Erm, the West Coast offense was considered quite the "system" when it helped Jerry Rice ascend the ranks as one of the top receivers of all time.
Yes, I know that the argument sounds stupid, but it's the same thing people are saying about Welker and, to be frank, it's silly. Other teams (Chiefs, Browns) have tried to utilize the Patriots' offense and they haven't been able to do it. It takes intelligence, precision, communication, and amazing routerunning. The system Welker plays in shouldn't be held against him, as the WCO wasn't held against Rice.
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| Iggles wrote: | | This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's. |
I'm a cold-blooded dickens. |
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jetsfan4life51
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 33812
Location: lawn guy land
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Most of his catches come 5 yards off the LOS. Put a guy like Percy Harvin in his role and he's putting up better numbers.
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PowerElite
Joined: 25 Dec 2009
Posts: 8808
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Wes Welker still has yet to produce a double digit receiving TD season. Through all of those receptions never has he produced 10 receiving TDs in a season. |
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ChazStandard
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 7095
Location: The bandwagon, hop on up!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| PowerElite wrote: | | Wes Welker still has yet to produce a double digit receiving TD season. Through all of those receptions never has he produced 10 receiving TDs in a season. |
Can you point to a guy Welkers size who has ever produced 10+ touchdowns at the WR position?
I'm not saying there aren't any, but I can't think of any. Steve Smith, once. And he has far better deep speed than Welker. Tactically, smaller guys are less used in the Redzone.
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Adopt-a-Pat
2014 - Rob Gronkowski TE: Rec: 82 Yds: 1124 TD: 12
2015 - Rob Ninkovich DE: Tkl: 52 Sck: 6.5 FF: 1 FR: 1 INT: 0 PD: 7
2016 - Julian Edelman WR: Rec: 98 Yds: 1106 TD: 3 |
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OneBadCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 726
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I think Welker is a great WR. But if he didn't play for the Pat's he wouldn't have those kind of numbers. He gets way more receptions than everybody else. And yes that's because he get's open but it's also because he has the best QB to play the game and an excellent coach.
I think way down the road he might a shot at the HOF. But when you have guys like Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Larry Fitgerald or Steve Smith who have been the #1 guys the majority of their careers, and who have put up with dog crap at QB for the majority of their primes and still produced top flight numbers; I just don't see how it would be fair to put Welker in before them when there were WR's clearly better and more talented.
That's not to say that Welker didn't redefine the slot WR because in a lot of aspects I think he has. It's just a tough decision I think. |
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Malik
Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 8743
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| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| ChazStandard wrote: | | PowerElite wrote: | | Wes Welker still has yet to produce a double digit receiving TD season. Through all of those receptions never has he produced 10 receiving TDs in a season. |
Can you point to a guy Welkers size who has ever produced 10+ touchdowns at the WR position?
I'm not saying there aren't any, but I can't think of any. Steve Smith, once. And he has far better deep speed than Welker. Tactically, smaller guys are less used in the Redzone. |
Greg Jennings is 5'11" has had two 12 touchdown seasons. Santana Moss is 5'10" and has one 10 touchdown season. Lance Moore is 5'9" and has had 1 touchdown season. There's a bunch a guys listed at exactly 6'0" who have done it (like Hines Ward), but I tried to keep it below 6'0". |
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