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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 61132
Location: #FSU #2012 Eagles HoF #2012 Gold Standard #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY #DERWIN
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 Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject: Any merit to PFFs ranking of Evan Mathis? |
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Disclaimer: I am FULLY AWARE of PFF's often questionable statistics and metrics.
Mathis having solid season
| Jason Kelce wrote: | | "He's been playing at a Pro Bowl level. He probably won't get that recognition unfortunately, because of the way the team's been going. But he's been having a good year. He's playing as good as any guard in the league right now." |
| Quote: | Mathis has not allowed a sack this season. ProFootballFocus currently has him ranked as the top guard in the league, ahead of the Ravens' Marshal Yanda, the 49ers' Alex Boone and the Saints' Jahri Evans.
The website has him ranked as the top-rated run-blocking guard with a 26.9 rating, nearly 10 points higher than their second-rated guard, the Niners' Mike Iupati. His 9.9 pass-blocking rating is fourth behind the Bills' Andy Levitre, the Lions' Rob Sims and the Bengals' Clint Boling. |
What do you guys make of PFF ranking Evan Mathis as the top rated guard? Is it true that he hasn't let a sack through this year
I think the big thing is that PFF doesn't track blown pass blocking that got a quarterback killed after he got rid of the ball.
I vividly remember Mathis vacating and getting Vick destroyed, just wasn't registered as a sack because Vick got rid of the ball in time.
Thoughts?
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Kiltman
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 17463
Location: Flipadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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He hasn't been awful...nor have I noticed him much. PFF is in love with him though.....so I don't know.
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ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 42661
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:09 am Post subject: |
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He had some key blocks on both of bryce's td runs in dallas. I think people associate him with howard mudd and the overall poor play of the line so they are down on him.
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TheKingDP
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 564
Location: illadelph
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Offensive lineman are hard to watch tape on because you don't really know the original play called, or any of adjustments\pre-snap reads made at at the LOS. Especially in the interior of the offensive line. Decisions made by the guard are directly affected by what the rest of the offensive line is doing\calling as well.
Solid offensive lineman usually go unnoticed unless they straight blow people off the ball (or on the other side of the coin, commit horrible, idiotic, drive-killing penalties like King Dunlap). Mathis isn't really that type of guy in either respect. I would probably go as far to say that Evan Mathis is one of the best guards in the league, not from a physical standpoint (ex: Iupati from SF), but from a technician standpoint that plays above-average on a consistent basis. Mathis is one of the best guards in the NFL because he's one of the most consistently "above-average" guards in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have 1/100th as many "turd-moments" like the other Guard we have that should really be fighting fires in Canada instead of playing in the NFL. What's that bust's name again? Oh yeah, Watkins. He sucks.
Anyone notice how our offensive line play (besides King Dunlap & DaMatress) has improved since Fireman Dan has been on the sidelines and we signed Jake Scott off the streets (He looks like he was homeless at the time, too.. I wonder if the Eagles reached him by payphone?) to replace this bum that's been a bust since name was announced as our first round draft pick? |
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ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 42661
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| TheKingDP wrote: | Offensive lineman are hard to watch tape on because you don't really know the original play called, or any of adjustments\pre-snap reads made at at the LOS. Especially in the interior of the offensive line. Decisions made by the guard are directly affected by what the rest of the offensive line is doing\calling as well.
Solid offensive lineman usually go unnoticed unless they straight blow people off the ball (or on the other side of the coin, commit horrible, idiotic, drive-killing penalties like King Dunlap). Mathis isn't really that type of guy in either respect. I would probably go as far to say that Evan Mathis is one of the best guards in the league, not from a physical standpoint (ex: Iupati from SF), but from a technician standpoint that plays above-average on a consistent basis. Mathis is one of the best guards in the NFL because he's one of the most consistently "above-average" guards in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have 1/100th as many "turd-moments" like the other Guard we have that should really be fighting fires in Canada instead of playing in the NFL. What's that bust's name again? Oh yeah, Watkins. He sucks.
Anyone notice how our offensive line play (besides King Dunlap & DaMatress) has improved since Fireman Dan has been on the sidelines and we signed Jake Scott off the streets (He looks like he was homeless at the time, too.. I wonder if the Eagles reached him by payphone?) to replace this bum that's been a bust since name was announced as our first round draft pick? |
Our oline play has improved because scott is decent at right guard and Dennis Kelly is getting better each week at RT.
Not to mention reynolds has actually improved a lot as the season went on.
So nick foles kind of lucks into a situation where he has a great young back and a fast improving Oline.
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LOLKevinKolb
Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 11433
Location: YOLO
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:58 am Post subject: |
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He's a solid guard, he's not as physical as other top guards in the league but he makes up for it by being pretty smart and rarely abandoning his assignment.
He'll probably be just as relieved as we are if he gets to play next to JP again next season
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Phire
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: #FSU #2012 Eagles HoF #2012 Gold Standard #YAKtoseIntolerant #TrollyRangers #Danes #CAVALRY #DERWIN
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:15 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, there has been a marked improvement of the O-line as soon as Watkins went out.
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TheKingDP
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 564
Location: illadelph
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| ninjapirate wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | Offensive lineman are hard to watch tape on because you don't really know the original play called, or any of adjustments\pre-snap reads made at at the LOS. Especially in the interior of the offensive line. Decisions made by the guard are directly affected by what the rest of the offensive line is doing\calling as well.
Solid offensive lineman usually go unnoticed unless they straight blow people off the ball (or on the other side of the coin, commit horrible, idiotic, drive-killing penalties like King Dunlap). Mathis isn't really that type of guy in either respect. I would probably go as far to say that Evan Mathis is one of the best guards in the league, not from a physical standpoint (ex: Iupati from SF), but from a technician standpoint that plays above-average on a consistent basis. Mathis is one of the best guards in the NFL because he's one of the most consistently "above-average" guards in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have 1/100th as many "turd-moments" like the other Guard we have that should really be fighting fires in Canada instead of playing in the NFL. What's that bust's name again? Oh yeah, Watkins. He sucks.
Anyone notice how our offensive line play (besides King Dunlap & DaMatress) has improved since Fireman Dan has been on the sidelines and we signed Jake Scott off the streets (He looks like he was homeless at the time, too.. I wonder if the Eagles reached him by payphone?) to replace this bum that's been a bust since name was announced as our first round draft pick? |
Our oline play has improved because scott is decent at right guard and Dennis Kelly is getting better each week at RT.
Not to mention reynolds has actually improved a lot as the season went on.
So nick foles kind of lucks into a situation where he has a great young back and a fast improving Oline. |
Any situation where your blindside protector is King Dunlap or DeMatress Bell is not a lucky situation to be in. It's a dangerous predicament.
But I agree, Dennis Kelly is significantly better at RT than RG, and signing Jake Scott has seemed to even stabilize Dallas Reynolds at C, but those guys are not starting caliber offensive lineman. |
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TheVillain112
Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 21750
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Kiltman wrote: | | He hasn't been awful...nor have I noticed him much. PFF is in love with him though.....so I don't know. |
They've had a fascination with him since his days in Cincy. I used to follow both Mathis and PFF back in those days on twitter. It was when PFF was first starting out, they noticed guys like Mathis who were relative no-ones and their scouting/analysis showed that they should be getting more credit. Mathis started interacting with them on twitter and of course loved that their metrics back then had him ranked favorably. I think he even did an interview with them. Since then Mathis can do no wrong in their eyes.
That all being said, PFF was right about Mathis during his days in Cincy. He played very well for us in 2009 and was a big part of why we reached the playoffs that year (Behind a strong run game and defense). Then the next year he's benched for Nate Livings who sucked. PFF wrote multiple times about how Mathis was better than Livings.
PFF does have a bias towards Mathis though, so you can't really believe them when they say he's "the best guard in the NFL". He is an above average guard though and probably does deserve to be in the discussion, but PFF is suspect in their rankings of him these days. One of the problems that Mathis did have is that although he didn't give up sacks, he didn't provide a clean pocket like some other guards (Jari Evans). So Carson couldn't step up in the pocket when throwing. Stuff like that PFF doesn't have a good metric for, so it helps someone like Mathis in their rankings IMHO... |
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ninjapirate
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 42661
Location: Vegas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| TheKingDP wrote: | | ninjapirate wrote: | | TheKingDP wrote: | Offensive lineman are hard to watch tape on because you don't really know the original play called, or any of adjustments\pre-snap reads made at at the LOS. Especially in the interior of the offensive line. Decisions made by the guard are directly affected by what the rest of the offensive line is doing\calling as well.
Solid offensive lineman usually go unnoticed unless they straight blow people off the ball (or on the other side of the coin, commit horrible, idiotic, drive-killing penalties like King Dunlap). Mathis isn't really that type of guy in either respect. I would probably go as far to say that Evan Mathis is one of the best guards in the league, not from a physical standpoint (ex: Iupati from SF), but from a technician standpoint that plays above-average on a consistent basis. Mathis is one of the best guards in the NFL because he's one of the most consistently "above-average" guards in the NFL. He doesn't seem to have 1/100th as many "turd-moments" like the other Guard we have that should really be fighting fires in Canada instead of playing in the NFL. What's that bust's name again? Oh yeah, Watkins. He sucks.
Anyone notice how our offensive line play (besides King Dunlap & DaMatress) has improved since Fireman Dan has been on the sidelines and we signed Jake Scott off the streets (He looks like he was homeless at the time, too.. I wonder if the Eagles reached him by payphone?) to replace this bum that's been a bust since name was announced as our first round draft pick? |
Our oline play has improved because scott is decent at right guard and Dennis Kelly is getting better each week at RT.
Not to mention reynolds has actually improved a lot as the season went on.
So nick foles kind of lucks into a situation where he has a great young back and a fast improving Oline. |
Any situation where your blindside protector is King Dunlap or DeMatress Bell is not a lucky situation to be in. It's a dangerous predicament.
But I agree, Dennis Kelly is significantly better at RT than RG, and signing Jake Scott has seemed to even stabilize Dallas Reynolds at C, but those guys are not starting caliber offensive lineman. |
If Kelly adds some strength I can think he can be a starting RT.
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RainbowCarebear
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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Location: "Are you hungry, child?" Yes, she thought, but not for food.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I think he's an excellent guard, he might be limited to a ZBS though.
If he's the best guard in the league, I'm not sure, but he's up there and we got him for a bargain.
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Blahman88
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: Eagles Forum HOF + Gold Standard 2014, Bringer of the Cavalry
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Simply put, I would look like the best guard in the league if I was surrounded by King Dunlap, Damatress Bell, Dallas Reynolds, Danny Watkins and Deniis Kelly.
Why go after me when these inepts are next to me. |
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eagles101
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 10884
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Blahman88 wrote: | Simply put, I would look like the best guard in the league if I was surrounded by King Dunlap, Damatress Bell, Dallas Reynolds, Danny Watkins and Deniis Kelly.
Why go after me when these inepts are next to me. |
and when you only have to pass block for half a second until the other guys give up a sack.
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| vikingsvikings wrote: |
I don't understand most of that, but I can tell it's probably inaccurate. |
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oland11
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 7939
Location: St. Louis - Temporarily
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Mathis' notoriety is from the poor play of the entire OL. But he has been solid the entire season.
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BLick12
Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 31494
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| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| lol, no. One of the worst ranking systems I have ever seen. Mathis is probably the tallest midget on our o-line currently. But he is a lousy pass-blocker and pretty average run blocker. Good at getting into space, solid at getting to the 2nd level, but don't ask him to man up and block a DT ever. |
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