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The FIRST Stchamp98 2013 Mock Draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shawn wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
shawn wrote:
1. just because I am curious, what do you,and this is to everyone, not just champ, what do you think the chances are that Khalid Holmes falls to round two? Because If you have us going Barkley in round one, and Center in round two, why not reunite Barkley with his center from college?

Holmes, from what I have read, is a quality prospect, and Center has become one of our biggest needs IMO, so what do you think of that idea?

2. sig-bet?


1. NFLDraftScout.com I believe has Holmes with a 3rd round grade. Reuniting the two isn't a bad thought but Jones is simply a significantly better prospect.

2. Sure, what are the terms?


2. how about this, If Mathieu goes in rounds 1-3, I win. if he goes in rounds 4-undrafted, you win. pretty simple rules to follow. As far as the sig goes, I like my CC sig too much to get involved in a long-term sig bet, so as far as duration goes. The loser has to rock their new sig from the time of the draft, to the start of the regular season...how does that sound.


You're on.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
I'll comment further later, but the 1st thing that jumps into my mind is if we really could get Jones in the 2nd, it would be like the equivalent of an Asian man with long dreads, wearing bright red parachute pants, and riding a unicycle during a busy lunch hour in snow-covered downtown Calgary successfully getting away with stealing some old lady's purse! In other words, I'd be stunned to see it happen!


He's 27th on Rob Rang's big board as it stands right now, the back end 1st round picks rarely go by need or by easy tabbed order the way the top 10 does. This interior line class is loaded. I don't see it as a surprise at all. I wouldn't be shocked if he went higher but this is a very realistic scenario IMHO. Highly talented interior lineman go at the top of round 2 all the time.

Definitely a strong class to be sure and one I hope both the Cards & the Bills take full advantage of! I agree that early round 2 is a great area to find talented linemen, even in years with a weaker class than this. I just think, given our strength of schedule, there's a better chance we'll be picking closer to 40 than 33 (EDIT)...meaning Jones IMHO would likely go ASAP in round 2 instead of falling to 1/3 the way through area if not drafted in the 1st. Also, Jones' versatility won't go unnoticed by other teams and as you said late 1st round picks tend to disregard need more. That IMHO makes it easier to target someone with Jones' versatility. That being said, if we did get him with our 2nd pick I would probably squeal with glee like some little girl! Laughing
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like a lot of what I see but I would tweak things a bit

I'd rather have Phillip Thomas than Swearinger (although i do like him) I think Thomas offers more upside and hes rising fast. But even so im not so sure about going S in round 3. I'd rather go linebacker. Ive been considering going TE in round 2 (that may be unpopular though) like Eifert or Ertz.

Good Job overall.
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DJ_Fka


Joined: 13 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wanted to bash this draft, but at first, second and third glance, i cannot, that annoys me Smile

Here are my thoughts:

Love Jones in the 2nd, if we keep losing and others test well, i can see it happening, however, where does he play for us? He is a Center, not a guard in the pros, what do we do with Lyle?

I can cop Barkley in the first, those first 8 picks could happen, so that isn't a bad fallback option and really he cannot be worse than the 3 nuffies we have atm.

Like picks 3 - 5, all solid picks, could possibly swap 3 and 4 around come April, but i like the idea

Pick 6 is good, a workman like player, can he play the role, that is my only question, don't ISU play 43 ?

Admit, i have no idea who pick 7 is, so will defer to you on him.

Good solid class, not bad for a first attempt.
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love Mathieu but do you all think he is a 4th rounder, he might be a 5th
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On talent and production so far, he is top 2 rounds.

On personality and other issues, he is UFA.

So round 3 or 4 is probably about right.

Look at Burfict who went UFA and is playing well for Cincy atm.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. While that is a high spot to draft Barkley I wouldn't mind that at all at this point. If we utilize a short to intermediate passing game, then I'll be very happy. Remember we have Fitz, Floyd, Roberts, and Housler. They would get a ton of YAC in that type of offense so we could still get the big play even without throwing deep as often.

2. Jones is the ideal 2nd round pick. First year as our RG and then take over for Lyle at Center and make the calls for the next 10 years.

3. Sounds like a good safety prospect. However, when I read that analysis all I thought of was Rashad Johnson. Short and slow but he's just a football player. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. One round later and I wouldn't be complaining. I just saw the first 3 picks and realized all are average to below average athletically. I imagine you don't see all that in DJ I'm just sharing my concerns.

4. Mathieu is fine by me. With PP here and all of our veterans on defense, there's no better situation for him to be in. We'd finally have a guy who could get Adams off the team and take his role as a Nickel CB and ST. Plus, with how elite PP has become this year as a CB and how ineffective he's been as a punt returner, that's another thing Mathieu does VERY well. He could spot PP or just take over completely and it won't be a huge dropoff.

5. Ricky Wagner is a solid player. However, if there was an OLB on board with similar value I'd prefer that.

6. I'm glad someone here finally brought up AJ Klein. I personally love his teammate Jake Knott more but he suffered a season ending injury. Klein would definitely help in the run game. He's stronger at the point of attack than Lenon. Is he capable of calling the defense though??

7. Good enough

And since it will probably be brought up anyway...Stchamp, why get Matt Barkley in the 1st when you can get Landry Jones in the 3rd?
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZPSquared wrote:
I like a lot of what I see but I would tweak things a bit

I'd rather have Phillip Thomas than Swearinger (although i do like him) I think Thomas offers more upside and hes rising fast. But even so im not so sure about going S in round 3. I'd rather go linebacker. Ive been considering going TE in round 2 (that may be unpopular though) like Eifert or Ertz.

Good Job overall.


1. I really don't see any facet of Thomas's game that rivals Swearinger's. And as far as rising fast, well, it's December 5th. Rising fast doesn't mean a whole lot when the draft is 19 weeks away and there's been no Senior Bowl, Combine or private workouts.

2. I see the need for a linebacker but safety's just as big IMO, if not more so. At least at linebacker we've got a lot of young talent that can grow and our head coach in this scenario, Ray Horton, loves that young talent. When the 2013 season starts O'Brien Schofield will be 26 and Sam Acho, whom Ray Horton called quote "brilliant" will be 25. Kerry Rhodes will be 31 and the man Ray Horton is now phasing out of our defense, Adrian Wilson, will be 34. That's a huge, huge problem for me and it should be for everyone else out there in Cardinal land as well. Besides, I didn't really see any potential 3-4 OLBs I liked and I'm not going to take a 3-4 OLB just to take one. Doing that at QB is one thing, doing it at OLB is another.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
I really wanted to bash this draft, but at first, second and third glance, i cannot, that annoys me Smile

Here are my thoughts:

Love Jones in the 2nd, if we keep losing and others test well, i can see it happening, however, where does he play for us? He is a Center, not a guard in the pros, what do we do with Lyle?

I can cop Barkley in the first, those first 8 picks could happen, so that isn't a bad fallback option and really he cannot be worse than the 3 nuffies we have atm.

Like picks 3 - 5, all solid picks, could possibly swap 3 and 4 around come April, but i like the idea

Pick 6 is good, a workman like player, can he play the role, that is my only question, don't ISU play 43 ?

Admit, i have no idea who pick 7 is, so will defer to you on him.

Good solid class, not bad for a first attempt.


I don't see any real reason why Barrett Jones can't play guard in the National Football League.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
1. While that is a high spot to draft Barkley I wouldn't mind that at all at this point. If we utilize a short to intermediate passing game, then I'll be very happy. Remember we have Fitz, Floyd, Roberts, and Housler. They would get a ton of YAC in that type of offense so we could still get the big play even without throwing deep as often.

2. Jones is the ideal 2nd round pick. First year as our RG and then take over for Lyle at Center and make the calls for the next 10 years.

3. Sounds like a good safety prospect. However, when I read that analysis all I thought of was Rashad Johnson. Short and slow but he's just a football player. That just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. One round later and I wouldn't be complaining. I just saw the first 3 picks and realized all are average to below average athletically. I imagine you don't see all that in DJ I'm just sharing my concerns.

4. Mathieu is fine by me. With PP here and all of our veterans on defense, there's no better situation for him to be in. We'd finally have a guy who could get Adams off the team and take his role as a Nickel CB and ST. Plus, with how elite PP has become this year as a CB and how ineffective he's been as a punt returner, that's another thing Mathieu does VERY well. He could spot PP or just take over completely and it won't be a huge dropoff.

5. Ricky Wagner is a solid player. However, if there was an OLB on board with similar value I'd prefer that.

6. I'm glad someone here finally brought up AJ Klein. I personally love his teammate Jake Knott more but he suffered a season ending injury. Klein would definitely help in the run game. He's stronger at the point of attack than Lenon. Is he capable of calling the defense though??

7. Good enough

And since it will probably be brought up anyway...Stchamp, why get Matt Barkley in the 1st when you can get Landry Jones in the 3rd?


While Rashad Johnson is under 6'0" the way Swearinger will likely measure in, he ran a 4.49 40 at the scouting combine with a solid 10 yard split. He's not slow. The problem with Johnson from college to the pros is that at Bama, he sat behind a great front 7 and caught a lot of floater picks deep in zones. Made the stat sheet easy on the eyes but it doesn't do much for NFL translation. While Swearinger plays behind arguably the best pass rushing front 7, none of his turnovers come from such plays and he's not a majority deep zone guy in Spurrier's offense. If you see them on tape, they're quite a bit different IMO.

Johnson's more of a 'shoulder first slam into you' type of tackler too. While Swearinger swings a heavyweight uppercut, he's a wrap up tackler thru and thru.
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stchamp98


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
I'll comment further later, but the 1st thing that jumps into my mind is if we really could get Jones in the 2nd, it would be like the equivalent of an Asian man with long dreads, wearing bright red parachute pants, and riding a unicycle during a busy lunch hour in snow-covered downtown Calgary successfully getting away with stealing some old lady's purse! In other words, I'd be stunned to see it happen!


He's 27th on Rob Rang's big board as it stands right now, the back end 1st round picks rarely go by need or by easy tabbed order the way the top 10 does. This interior line class is loaded. I don't see it as a surprise at all. I wouldn't be shocked if he went higher but this is a very realistic scenario IMHO. Highly talented interior lineman go at the top of round 2 all the time.

Definitely a strong class to be sure and one I hope both the Cards & the Bills take full advantage of! I agree that early round 2 is a great area to find talented linemen, even in years with a weaker class than this. I just think, given our strength of schedule, there's a better chance we'll be picking closer to 40 than 33 (EDIT)...meaning Jones IMHO would likely go ASAP in round 2 instead of falling to 1/3 the way through area if not drafted in the 1st. Also, Jones' versatility won't go unnoticed by other teams and as you said late 1st round picks tend to disregard need more. That IMHO makes it easier to target someone with Jones' versatility. That being said, if we did get him with our 2nd pick I would probably squeal with glee like some little girl! Laughing


Bolded: That doesn't worry me much, to be honest. The teams picking ahead us in round 2 have a ton of other needs and 4-5 of them have seriously good centers. Carolina, KC, Oakland, Cleveland. His versaility inside at center doesn't play for those teams, meaning he's purely a guard or right tackle. His value diminishes, meaning half the teams picking ahead of us in round won't value him the way we would. That changes a lot.
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apollo14000


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
While Rashad Johnson is under 6'0" the way Swearinger will likely measure in, he ran a 4.49 40 at the scouting combine with a solid 10 yard split. He's not slow. The problem with Johnson from college to the pros is that at Bama, he sat behind a great front 7 and caught a lot of floater picks deep in zones. Made the stat sheet easy on the eyes but it doesn't do much for NFL translation. While Swearinger plays behind arguably the best pass rushing front 7, none of his turnovers come from such plays and he's not a majority deep zone guy in Spurrier's offense. If you see them on tape, they're quite a bit different IMO.

Johnson's more of a 'shoulder first slam into you' type of tackler too. While Swearinger swings a heavyweight uppercut, he's a wrap up tackler thru and thru.


Good to know. I haven't seen any South Carolina games that spring to mind so I'll take your word on it. The tackling is a huge plus.
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apollo14000


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
I'll comment further later, but the 1st thing that jumps into my mind is if we really could get Jones in the 2nd, it would be like the equivalent of an Asian man with long dreads, wearing bright red parachute pants, and riding a unicycle during a busy lunch hour in snow-covered downtown Calgary successfully getting away with stealing some old lady's purse! In other words, I'd be stunned to see it happen!


He's 27th on Rob Rang's big board as it stands right now, the back end 1st round picks rarely go by need or by easy tabbed order the way the top 10 does. This interior line class is loaded. I don't see it as a surprise at all. I wouldn't be shocked if he went higher but this is a very realistic scenario IMHO. Highly talented interior lineman go at the top of round 2 all the time.

Definitely a strong class to be sure and one I hope both the Cards & the Bills take full advantage of! I agree that early round 2 is a great area to find talented linemen, even in years with a weaker class than this. I just think, given our strength of schedule, there's a better chance we'll be picking closer to 40 than 33 (EDIT)...meaning Jones IMHO would likely go ASAP in round 2 instead of falling to 1/3 the way through area if not drafted in the 1st. Also, Jones' versatility won't go unnoticed by other teams and as you said late 1st round picks tend to disregard need more. That IMHO makes it easier to target someone with Jones' versatility. That being said, if we did get him with our 2nd pick I would probably squeal with glee like some little girl! Laughing


Bolded: That doesn't worry me much, to be honest. The teams picking ahead us in round 2 have a ton of other needs and 4-5 of them have seriously good centers. Carolina, KC, Oakland, Cleveland. His versaility inside at center doesn't play for those teams, meaning he's purely a guard or right tackle. His value diminishes, meaning half the teams picking ahead of us in round won't value him the way we would. That changes a lot.


i'd add that I think Jonathon Cooper will get selected before him. Cooper will time off the charts. He's just a very very good athlete for a OG. He could probably play center down the road too. More upside with Cooper IMO so Jones could slip to us. If not, I'd take Cooper in a heartbeat too.
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stchamp98


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Joined: 11 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollo14000 wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
stchamp98 wrote:
Yibbyl wrote:
I'll comment further later, but the 1st thing that jumps into my mind is if we really could get Jones in the 2nd, it would be like the equivalent of an Asian man with long dreads, wearing bright red parachute pants, and riding a unicycle during a busy lunch hour in snow-covered downtown Calgary successfully getting away with stealing some old lady's purse! In other words, I'd be stunned to see it happen!


He's 27th on Rob Rang's big board as it stands right now, the back end 1st round picks rarely go by need or by easy tabbed order the way the top 10 does. This interior line class is loaded. I don't see it as a surprise at all. I wouldn't be shocked if he went higher but this is a very realistic scenario IMHO. Highly talented interior lineman go at the top of round 2 all the time.

Definitely a strong class to be sure and one I hope both the Cards & the Bills take full advantage of! I agree that early round 2 is a great area to find talented linemen, even in years with a weaker class than this. I just think, given our strength of schedule, there's a better chance we'll be picking closer to 40 than 33 (EDIT)...meaning Jones IMHO would likely go ASAP in round 2 instead of falling to 1/3 the way through area if not drafted in the 1st. Also, Jones' versatility won't go unnoticed by other teams and as you said late 1st round picks tend to disregard need more. That IMHO makes it easier to target someone with Jones' versatility. That being said, if we did get him with our 2nd pick I would probably squeal with glee like some little girl! Laughing


Bolded: That doesn't worry me much, to be honest. The teams picking ahead us in round 2 have a ton of other needs and 4-5 of them have seriously good centers. Carolina, KC, Oakland, Cleveland. His versaility inside at center doesn't play for those teams, meaning he's purely a guard or right tackle. His value diminishes, meaning half the teams picking ahead of us in round won't value him the way we would. That changes a lot.


i'd add that I think Jonathon Cooper will get selected before him. Cooper will time off the charts. He's just a very very good athlete for a OG. He could probably play center down the road too. More upside with Cooper IMO so Jones could slip to us. If not, I'd take Cooper in a heartbeat too.


I think Dallas Thomas could too. A very good player who's also an extremely versatile SEC lineman, can play tackle or guard.

And I'm right with you. If Jones goes before these 2 guys and they're on the board for us, they will both be squarely on my radar.
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AZPSquared


Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all should listen to an interview from Matt Barkley. He carries himself so well and I think that carries weight
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