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alfalcone


Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 1337
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Offensive Coordinator Candidates Reply with quote

Assuming Cameron is fired, who are some candidates you would like the Ravens to look at to replace him. Flacco has a bit of an odd skill set and that would ave to be taken into account, he's best at a shotgun short passing game, and working to the outside, though he has a rocket arm, he is fairly inaccurate with his deep ball. Some candidates could be Norv Turner (who runs the exact same offense as Cameron, though admittedly has better feel for the game), Bobby Petrino (according to CNN 80-90% of pro athletes cheat on their spouse, so his infidelity should be a non issue), Hue Jackson (if available) Tom Clements, Jason Garrett, Pat Hill, Scottie Montgomery (though I doubt Pittsburgh would let him interview.) Obviously there are plenty others. I think Pat Hill would be a good fit schematically, and Petrino could be great if he is willing to take an OC job (Flacco is sort of an NFL version of Mallett), and Montgomery has all the makings of a future star in the league.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pittsburgh would have to allow Scottie Montgomery to interview as it is a promotion per league rules.

I would love to have Norv Turner. I could absolutely see Flacco/Rice flat out dominating in his system. Only thing that I would worry about him is overworking Rice (although that's probably better than the Cam Cameron treatment).

I don't want Petrino anywhere near this team.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
Pittsburgh would have to allow Scottie Montgomery to interview as it is a promotion per league rules.


They way I understand it is that any non-HC position is all seen as being on the same "level" so they wouldn't have to let him interview for an OC job. Now, for a HC job they would. Again, that's the way I understand it at least -- I thought the same as you up until 2 weeks ago when I was informed I was incorrect.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like B-Terp, I'm hesitant to want Norv Turner. That system simply isn't a good fit for Flacco's skillset. That said I'm not very well versed on the coordinators of the league.

If he'd swallow his pride- and assuming he gets fired (which might not be a safe bet, I definitely wouldn't mind Jason Garrett as our offensive coordinator. I like that Dallas tends to do well in their ability to convert on 3rd/4th down and he's generally been able to produce offenses that can move the ball.

Besides him, I guess our best bet would be to go after a QBs coach that is in a really good system that would be compatible to Flacco's strengths as a QB. Something like Green Bay's variation of the WCO. Ben McAdoo only has one season as a QB coach under his belt and was previously the TEs coach before Clements was promoted, so he doesn't have as much experience as you would like, but he appears to be a quality coaching mind either way and he has knowledge of a system that could suit Flacco's strengths very well. Also his history as a former TEs coach might come in handy as he should have an understanding of how to get TEs involved in the passing game as well as with how to utilize them as blockers. TEs are some of the most versatile members of the offense- having to block from multiple spots, lineup on the line or be split out, so you'd have to think that kind of experience could be really beneficial in knowing how to install the Packers variation of the WCO here.

I'm also not keen on going after a college coach as a OC.. and I'm not confident in Jim Caldwell either. It worries me with just how bad his offense looked last season regardless of if Peyton was injured all season or not.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ray Rice in Norv Turner's system is a scary thought to me, but in a good way. He'd dominate, flat out.

As for the thought of him overusing Rice, as a player, you WANT that burden. I know that for me, as a college closer, I want my coaches giving me the ball in EVERY situation there is an opportunity for a save and if my arm isn't ready, it's my job to get it ready. I'm sure Rice feels the same way. It's better to be overworked than to be sitting fresh on the bench while your team plays someone else and then fails.

I'm all in for Norv Turner at this point, but realistically almost ANYONE is an upgrade over Cam.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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r_sayle


Joined: 18 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

give me either sean payton (probably unlikely he comes here as a OC) on norv turner personally.
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ravens5520


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we have a better chance of getting Sean Peyton than Cameron getting fired.. Especially when we are 9-3 currently. Even if we tank in playoffs again. Last year it wasn't Cameron's fault. Remember lee Evans and Cundwiff? Cameron called the perfect plays to get us to the victory and even overtime, but two miscues caused us the SB chance.
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draftguru1234


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere....

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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere.


Then neither is this team.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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draftguru1234


Joined: 09 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere.


Then neither is this team.

True.

Sad, but true.
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere....
I wouldn't be so sure. All depends on how we do in the playoffs (provided we get there). He was retained this year because our top choice to replace him, Norv Turner, wasn't fired by San Diego and because of how close we came to to the Super Bowl. I think Harbaugh looked at this team and how close they got in their current form and decided that big, structural changes on both sides of the ball (with Pagano leaving) wasn't the prudent direction to go in if the team had already established that it was capable of going all the way. Not saying that I love the line of thinking, but it's important to understand that this isn't just some situation where Harbaugh refuses to fire his buddies or something like that, as the more anti-Harbaugh faction likes to think.

I think unless we end up in a situation where the offense delivers for us in the postseason in a big way (ie Flacco hitting Lee Evans for the AFC-winning touchdown pass last year), firing Cam will be on the table. Not saying it's a definite occurrence, but it's something that will be under a lot of consideration, particularly if we flame out in such a way that really points to stagnation. You could at least look at 2011 vs. 2010 and '09 as real progress, in that we got over our Pittsburgh hump and were arguably the class of the AFC last year and would have gone to the Super Bowl if not for some really unfortunate circumstances. Even if it wasn't the ultimate goal, there was reason to feel like the team was making steps forward. But at this point there's no way to spin anything as progress unless we're playing for a Super Bowl in Feburary, and so if we're not, I think a change will be under consideration.

Harbaugh pushed Mattison out and probably would have pushed Cameron out after '10 if not for the impending lockout. He's also got a very demanding owner in Bisciotti to answer to. And I just don't think anyone here can talk with authority about what Harbaugh will or won't do in several months when it's actually decision time.
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draftguru1234


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere....
I wouldn't be so sure. All depends on how we do in the playoffs (provided we get there). He was retained this year because our top choice to replace him, Norv Turner, wasn't fired by San Diego and because of how close we came to to the Super Bowl. I think Harbaugh looked at this team and how close they got in their current form and decided that big, structural changes on both sides of the ball (with Pagano leaving) wasn't the prudent direction to go in if the team had already established that it was capable of going all the way. Not saying that I love the line of thinking, but it's important to understand that this isn't just some situation where Harbaugh refuses to fire his buddies or something like that, as the more anti-Harbaugh faction likes to think.

I think unless we end up in a situation where the offense delivers for us in the postseason in a big way (ie Flacco hitting Lee Evans for the AFC-winning touchdown pass last year), firing Cam will be on the table. Not saying it's a definite occurrence, but it's something that will be under a lot of consideration, particularly if we flame out in such a way that really points to stagnation. You could at least look at 2011 vs. 2010 and '09 as real progress, in that we got over our Pittsburgh hump and were arguably the class of the AFC last year and would have gone to the Super Bowl if not for some really unfortunate circumstances. Even if it wasn't the ultimate goal, there was reason to feel like the team was making steps forward. But at this point there's no way to spin anything as progress unless we're playing for a Super Bowl in Feburary, and so if we're not, I think a change will be under consideration.

Harbaugh pushed Mattison out and probably would have pushed Cameron out after '10 if not for the impending lockout. He's also got a very demanding owner in Bisciotti to answer to. And I just don't think anyone here can talk with authority about what Harbaugh will or won't do in several months when it's actually decision time.

Let me preface this by saying, anyone would be an upgrade over Cam.

With that being said though, Turner isn't really all that different. He shares pretty much the same philosophy as Cam, albeit with a little more common sense.

Sure getting rid of Cam Cameron would be a nice first step, but why bring in a wealthy man's version of the guy to replace him? I'd rather bring in a guy with a totally different philosophy. (Preferably a system that emphasizes short throws)
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BaltimoreTerp


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've probably been more vocal than anyone else in voicing my own concerns about Norv Turner. I want to get away from the Air Coryell and I'm not convinced that Norv wouldn't be another older guy who has let the game pass him by.

I mentioned him more to point out that Harbaugh is willing to fire Cam if the circumstances are right to him.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere....
I wouldn't be so sure. All depends on how we do in the playoffs (provided we get there). He was retained this year because our top choice to replace him, Norv Turner, wasn't fired by San Diego and because of how close we came to to the Super Bowl. I think Harbaugh looked at this team and how close they got in their current form and decided that big, structural changes on both sides of the ball (with Pagano leaving) wasn't the prudent direction to go in if the team had already established that it was capable of going all the way. Not saying that I love the line of thinking, but it's important to understand that this isn't just some situation where Harbaugh refuses to fire his buddies or something like that, as the more anti-Harbaugh faction likes to think.

I think unless we end up in a situation where the offense delivers for us in the postseason in a big way (ie Flacco hitting Lee Evans for the AFC-winning touchdown pass last year), firing Cam will be on the table. Not saying it's a definite occurrence, but it's something that will be under a lot of consideration, particularly if we flame out in such a way that really points to stagnation. You could at least look at 2011 vs. 2010 and '09 as real progress, in that we got over our Pittsburgh hump and were arguably the class of the AFC last year and would have gone to the Super Bowl if not for some really unfortunate circumstances. Even if it wasn't the ultimate goal, there was reason to feel like the team was making steps forward. But at this point there's no way to spin anything as progress unless we're playing for a Super Bowl in Feburary, and so if we're not, I think a change will be under consideration.

Harbaugh pushed Mattison out and probably would have pushed Cameron out after '10 if not for the impending lockout. He's also got a very demanding owner in Bisciotti to answer to. And I just don't think anyone here can talk with authority about what Harbaugh will or won't do in several months when it's actually decision time.


You know what it seems like...it seems like after every season there's a very convenient "excuse" to keep Cameron around, or rather an excuse as to why we shouldn't fire him. In '09 it was his first season, in '10 it was the lockout, and then last year it was Pagano leaving. What's it gonna be this year when this team falls short, again?

In order to grow you have to suffer, and if firing Cam means this team is set back ONE year, maybe that's a good thing, because right now we're already being set back by Cam's mere presence on the coaching staff.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draftguru1234 wrote:
BaltimoreTerp wrote:
draftguru1234 wrote:
Guys, Cam ain't going anywhere....
I wouldn't be so sure. All depends on how we do in the playoffs (provided we get there). He was retained this year because our top choice to replace him, Norv Turner, wasn't fired by San Diego and because of how close we came to to the Super Bowl. I think Harbaugh looked at this team and how close they got in their current form and decided that big, structural changes on both sides of the ball (with Pagano leaving) wasn't the prudent direction to go in if the team had already established that it was capable of going all the way. Not saying that I love the line of thinking, but it's important to understand that this isn't just some situation where Harbaugh refuses to fire his buddies or something like that, as the more anti-Harbaugh faction likes to think.

I think unless we end up in a situation where the offense delivers for us in the postseason in a big way (ie Flacco hitting Lee Evans for the AFC-winning touchdown pass last year), firing Cam will be on the table. Not saying it's a definite occurrence, but it's something that will be under a lot of consideration, particularly if we flame out in such a way that really points to stagnation. You could at least look at 2011 vs. 2010 and '09 as real progress, in that we got over our Pittsburgh hump and were arguably the class of the AFC last year and would have gone to the Super Bowl if not for some really unfortunate circumstances. Even if it wasn't the ultimate goal, there was reason to feel like the team was making steps forward. But at this point there's no way to spin anything as progress unless we're playing for a Super Bowl in Feburary, and so if we're not, I think a change will be under consideration.

Harbaugh pushed Mattison out and probably would have pushed Cameron out after '10 if not for the impending lockout. He's also got a very demanding owner in Bisciotti to answer to. And I just don't think anyone here can talk with authority about what Harbaugh will or won't do in several months when it's actually decision time.

Let me preface this by saying, anyone would be an upgrade over Cam.

With that being said though, Turner isn't really all that different. He shares pretty much the same philosophy as Cam, albeit with a little more common sense.

Sure getting rid of Cam Cameron would be a nice first step, but why bring in a wealthy man's version of the guy to replace him? I'd rather bring in a guy with a totally different philosophy. (Preferably a system that emphasizes short throws)


I nominate this guy for OC, as I feel he brings a very creative style of offense in the picture:



Now, before I'm burned at the steak, I know he has his shortcomings, but we can work around that! When he's on his game, he's the best there is, so why not give him an interview?? Laughing
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BlaqOptic wrote:
I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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