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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
I want a heady veteran that understands the position and knows how to share his experience with Smith. Kind of like Mark Brunell in his later years.

Cuz that worked so well for Sanchez......................
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Eric Berry


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
I want a heady veteran that understands the position and knows how to share his experience with Smith. Kind of like Mark Brunell in his later years.

Cuz that worked so well for Sanchez......................


Sanchez isn't exactly the smartest tool in the shed.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric Berry wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
I want a heady veteran that understands the position and knows how to share his experience with Smith. Kind of like Mark Brunell in his later years.

Cuz that worked so well for Sanchez......................


Sanchez isn't exactly the smartest tool in the shed.


Yeah, not sure if bigs was joking or serious. I hope he understands the point I was making. Brunell was in the league for a long time and had pretty much seen everything. Plus, he wasn't pushing to be a starter - he accepted his role as mentor and had a good understanding of the game to share.

Just because Sanchez hasn't developed, I think it is foolish to think that Brunell's presence wasn't beneficial.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was being somewhat sarcastic.

I know where you're coming from nic, but choosing the right "mentor" type is important. The really good ones, the ultra-competitive, will never like sitting behind someone else. I doubt how much one can really benefit another.

I think someone like Brunell is a decent example of someone that might fit. Maybe Leftwich too. But if you put someone like Favre, you're wasting your time from a mentoring standpoint.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
I was being somewhat sarcastic.

I know where you're coming from nic, but choosing the right "mentor" type is important. The really good ones, the ultra-competitive, will never like sitting behind someone else. I doubt how much one can really benefit another.

I think someone like Brunell is a decent example of someone that might fit. Maybe Leftwich too. But if you put someone like Favre, you're wasting your time from a mentoring standpoint.


I definitely agree. And like I said about Vick, I don't see him as really having a great grasp of the position himself to mentor a young prospect.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not as big on this whole mentor type thing as you guys seem to be. Would it be nice to have a qb behind a rookie who wipes his butt and feeds him dinner? Sure. But if not that's fine too. Healthy competition is what is needed for players to succeed.
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jimmydee


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understand your point of view, Mikek, but disagree slightlyt to this extent.
When you walk into a new job and don't really know the parameters and inner workings, its nice to have a grizzled old vet there to point out the land mines. Without further analogies, this is what a seasoned mentor does for a young (1-3 year rookie) to help him keep a perspective on things, and understnd what the %$#*^%! just happen to his life.

A mentor for the sake of mentor is useless....BUT, a truly good mentor can be as valuable as a position coach. Sometimes, more so.

Look it at from that point of view, and maybe you'll see the value of a truly good mentor, especially for a young QB. Wink
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmydee wrote:
Understand your point of view, Mikek, but disagree slightlyt to this extent.
When you walk into a new job and don't really know the parameters and inner workings, its nice to have a grizzled old vet there to point out the land mines. Without further analogies, this is what a seasoned mentor does for a young (1-3 year rookie) to help him keep a perspective on things, and understnd what the %$#*^%! just happen to his life.

A mentor for the sake of mentor is useless....BUT, a truly good mentor can be as valuable as a position coach. Sometimes, more so.

Look it at from that point of view, and maybe you'll see the value of a truly good mentor, especially for a young QB. Wink


I fully see and understand your point BUT that is why coaches are in place, and player personnel guys are there. Even if you exclude them there are other players on the team who should be leading the rookies and helping them out. Ricky Stanzi can be a leader for a new guy couldnt he? He knows the building, knows where the toilets are, film room is, etc etc.. It doesn't have to be Chad Pennington who comes in and helps this guy.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And who says Ryan Lilja or Winston can't be that mentor? It doesn't have to be a qb.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
And who says Ryan Lilja or Winston can't be that mentor? It doesn't have to be a qb.


Exactly my point Bigs. I think this whole "mentor" thing is really only used and abused by the fans. I mean RGIII's mentor is Kirk Cousins, and Luck's is Drew freakin Stanton.
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brawl.kc


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
And who says Ryan Lilja or Winston can't be that mentor? It doesn't have to be a qb.
I don't want my Linemen teaching my Quarterback how to play football if its all the same.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brawl.kc wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
And who says Ryan Lilja or Winston can't be that mentor? It doesn't have to be a qb.
I don't want my Linemen teaching my Quarterback how to play football if its all the same.

I said mentor not teacher. You're QB coach, OC, and occasionally HC teach him how to play QB. Your o-linemen can teach him how to be a professional and leader.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
brawl.kc wrote:
bigschmadt00 wrote:
And who says Ryan Lilja or Winston can't be that mentor? It doesn't have to be a qb.
I don't want my Linemen teaching my Quarterback how to play football if its all the same.

I said mentor not teacher. You're QB coach, OC, and occasionally HC teach him how to play QB. Your o-linemen can teach him how to be a professional and leader.


I don't think anyone was talking about a player that shows a rookie the ropes of making the jump from college ball to the NFL like watching out for groupies, or where to get the best barbecue. This is a Michael Vick thread.

I can't talk for brawl, but what I was talking about wasn't that but having a quarterback that has the experience to work closely with the rookie quarterback. Of course we have an HC, OC, and QB coach, but I think having a veteran signal caller there that understands the specific dynamics of the position CAN (not necessarily WILL) go a long way to helping a rookie quarterback to develop or atleast help to shorten the learning curve a bit.

I guess I am talking more about a veteran quarterback going over gamefilm of an upcoming opponent and picking out what he sees in coverage or talking about how to see player tendencies on the defensive side of the ball...ie, "When we have this set and you see the X position here in Y location, look for the Z position to handle assignment A and cheat to this side and slip off of the tight end and peel out like this to handle coverage in this zone".

I know that was convoluted, but I like the idea of a veteran quarterback (nobody said bring Pennington out of retirement) that can work with a quarterback and supplement what is coming from the HC/OC.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OILCHIEFS wrote:
I thought about this the other day. I'm not a big fan of the idea. Vick wasn't the only problem with the Eagles team but he never made his team better.

I wouldn't be mad if he got released and we claimed him but he's old and I would rather take a QB that doesn't need to develop as much.



Interestingly enough
Falcons were 3-12 without Vick

Eagles are currently 3-8 without Vick and could also finish with that same
3-12 mark

Vick absolutely made his teams better. His wins above replacement are as good as you will ever see at the QB position

Im been recently sold on the Vick to the Chiefs bandwagon considering that situation. The running game, a more serviceable Oline, and some bigger targets at WR. And Vick without the $100 million dollar contract is a different player than the guy with one both in Atlanta as well as Phlly

Also Vick is 18-7-1 vs the AFC to boot.


Dream destination for Vick if he doesn't go back to Philly
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BBIB


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
Vick is allready going down hill as a athlete which is a huge part of his game. This is only going to get worse. I would pass on Vick.

Pick the Best QB you can in the first round. Have him sit for a year behind Quinn. Then let him go.


Many people have made a major flaw in the assessment of Vick declining as an athlete. They haven't taken into account how great of an athlete he was starting out.

Vick started off as a 4.3 40 guy. If he's AT WORSE a 4.5 guy with a lost step or two at age 33-36 that still makes him a better athlete than virtually any other QB to ever play the game

Also with all the new technology added to the game, Vick's ability to stay on the field will only improve (hence why he was able to avoid the rib injury this year with kevlar vest) Also with new concussion helmets the concurrence of that will decline as well

Also one overlooked fact is that Vick hasn't missed any more time per year than a Big Ben who gets a pass for missing the exact same time per year.
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