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Robert Griffin III vs. Andrew Luck vs. Russell Wilson
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Who's better?
RG3
47%
 47%  [ 64 ]
Andrew Luck
38%
 38%  [ 51 ]
Russell Wilson
14%
 14%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 134

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BigJohnson


Joined: 14 Jan 2007
Posts: 1576
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can the first rated passer in the league not be considered the best rookie qb this year over the 31st rated passer? I don't care if the 1st rated passer is running a simple offense that tailors to all of his strengths and has Calvin Johnson/AJ Green on the outside with Adrian Peterson running the football. Or if the 31st ranked passer is throwing to nobodies at WR, has no offensive line, no running game, plays in a "hard offense," and has to coach the team at the same time. The first rated passer is still having the better season, and by a pretty large margin. Make up all the excuses in the world for why Andrew Luck is better, see if I care. Cause I'm sleeping just fine knowing that Bob Griffin is the first rated passer in the league and has us in playoff contention for the first time in 5 years.
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chpjns15


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
There have been solid points about why RGIII has been better...but I'm sorry...that whole post by Tyler735 is just downright laughable.

If I had 5 minutes of my life to waste...I could write up the EXACT same thing he just did but about Luck essentially making Luck look great and RGIII not so much....

It was all "I've seen RGIII do this, but never seen Luck do it". That's it.

How many Colts games have you watched, Tyler735? One? Two maybe?

Luck's turnovers are what will possibly lose him the ROTY...but to ignore what he's done this year and just glorify RGIII is insane. People moan and complain about all the Luck talk in the media and internet etc...but RGIII is talked about WAY more and that is indisputable.

Tyler says football is a team game. True. But why has Luck improved his team already by 6 wins while RGIII JUST matched his team's previous win totals? I mean, each team had trash at QB last year.

Too bad there's not a "Most Valuable Rookie" Award. Luck would blow everyone out of the water.

Put Mike Vick in Washington's offense and they're still an OK team. Worse than they are now, but not by some huge difference.

Fact is, Shanahan has completely babied RGIII all year with his offensive scheme. He's not asked to do nearly as much as Luck is, despite Luck having arguably less talent around him except for a 34 year old Reggie Wayne, who btw had been completely forgotten about up until #12 started throwing him the ball this year.

RGIII is having a better year...statistically. Luck has his team at 8-4 and has led them to come from behind victories 5 times. It's really subjective at this point as to which is more impressive.

And LOL at saying RGIII strikes fear into opponents but Luck doesn't. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Fact is, both are playing incredible football. I don't think we'll ever see anything like this again, where two rookie QBs are this good at the same time. It really is amazing.

But in the end, I think Luck will be the better QB. He will win more Superbowls (IMO) and will be considered the best in the league during his prime.
No he's not. I've heard Luck being refereed to as having a "magic arm". Luck has been getting almost all the praise and it's simply because the Colts team has won 2 more games then the Redskins.

The Colts are NOTHING like the 2011 team. They overhauled everything from players to a whole new FO and coaching staff. The Redskins, not so much. Can't compare the 2011 Colts to the 2012 Colts. Anybody should be able to see that.

That's your opinion. The stats say otherwise and they say otherwise pretty vehemently.

RGIII runs an offense that is made for him and to his strengths. Any coach worth a darn would do the same thing. I don't see this as being a knock. RGIII is flourishing in his offense while Luck has been average to below average in his. The only year Wayne was "forgotten about" was last year when he had steamy trash like Collins and Painter throwing to him. He's a top 10 WR, something RGIII doesn't come close to having. In fact, RGIII has been without his #1 WR for all but 4 or 5 games this year.

True, Luck is a QB of a team that is 8-4 but saying he lead his team to 5 comebacks is misleading a bit because he's the reason they needed to come back in the first place with his 22 to 21 TD/Turnover ration and poor completion percentage.

RGIII is a dual threat. He's an accurate passer that has a rocket arm but also a QB that is shifty and can run a 4.3 forty. Luck is a traditional passer in almost every way. Even without accounting for how much better RGIII has been statistically this year, the fact that he's a dual threat with the kind of passing ability he has will scare DC's more than a traditional passer.


That entire last paragraph doesn't give RG3 a leg up. Luck is almost as fast and in my opinion has better pocket mobility. He is also a dual threat.

However, I dont have a strong opinion here. I voted Wilson, but I am very biased. If I try to remove every bit of bias, my list goes:

RG3
Wilson
Luck

They are all extrmely close, however. I give RG3 the nod just because of his miwnd blowing stats, but I am not his biggest fan. Luck is #3 ONLY because of Lucks turnovers. If he had five or six less picks, he would no doubt be my #1.

And for every RG3 fan sick of Luck being loved by the national media, take a step back, and look at RG3. He is every bit as loved as Luck, if not more so. Im sick of people complaining because he doesnt get as much attention.
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Nobody


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him. I really like Wilson, but he isn't even close to RG3 or Luck.

It's painfully obvious that most of you just look at boxscores and never actually watch the Colts. If you did you would see how awful Luck's running game, OL (god they're so bad), defense, and WRs (drop wise, they're good when they hang on) are.
His low completion % and picks are largely not his fault.
Take this last game, for instance. Luck throws 2 INTs 1 TD and has under 50 % completion percentage. Most of you didn't watch the game and assume he had a bad game. One writer said it was his worst game ever, a laughable statement to say the least. His 2 interceptions?
An awful call:

And a Hail Mary with 0:00 on the clock at the end of the second.
He also had a TD dropped in the endzone by Avery on third down, (he had 4 drops that game, I believe) and a long drive where we get stopped on the one and pound it in. This was one of the worst games I've been forced to watch our OL play (against a bad Tennessee DL) and nobody could catch, and yet he still led the 4th Q comeback. Again.

That said-
Griffin-Luck----------Wilson-----------Tannehill-Weeden----Foles.
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Tom Shean


Joined: 10 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chpjns15 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
There have been solid points about why RGIII has been better...but I'm sorry...that whole post by Tyler735 is just downright laughable.

If I had 5 minutes of my life to waste...I could write up the EXACT same thing he just did but about Luck essentially making Luck look great and RGIII not so much....

It was all "I've seen RGIII do this, but never seen Luck do it". That's it.

How many Colts games have you watched, Tyler735? One? Two maybe?

Luck's turnovers are what will possibly lose him the ROTY...but to ignore what he's done this year and just glorify RGIII is insane. People moan and complain about all the Luck talk in the media and internet etc...but RGIII is talked about WAY more and that is indisputable.

Tyler says football is a team game. True. But why has Luck improved his team already by 6 wins while RGIII JUST matched his team's previous win totals? I mean, each team had trash at QB last year.

Too bad there's not a "Most Valuable Rookie" Award. Luck would blow everyone out of the water.

Put Mike Vick in Washington's offense and they're still an OK team. Worse than they are now, but not by some huge difference.

Fact is, Shanahan has completely babied RGIII all year with his offensive scheme. He's not asked to do nearly as much as Luck is, despite Luck having arguably less talent around him except for a 34 year old Reggie Wayne, who btw had been completely forgotten about up until #12 started throwing him the ball this year.

RGIII is having a better year...statistically. Luck has his team at 8-4 and has led them to come from behind victories 5 times. It's really subjective at this point as to which is more impressive.

And LOL at saying RGIII strikes fear into opponents but Luck doesn't. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Fact is, both are playing incredible football. I don't think we'll ever see anything like this again, where two rookie QBs are this good at the same time. It really is amazing.

But in the end, I think Luck will be the better QB. He will win more Superbowls (IMO) and will be considered the best in the league during his prime.
No he's not. I've heard Luck being refereed to as having a "magic arm". Luck has been getting almost all the praise and it's simply because the Colts team has won 2 more games then the Redskins.

The Colts are NOTHING like the 2011 team. They overhauled everything from players to a whole new FO and coaching staff. The Redskins, not so much. Can't compare the 2011 Colts to the 2012 Colts. Anybody should be able to see that.

That's your opinion. The stats say otherwise and they say otherwise pretty vehemently.

RGIII runs an offense that is made for him and to his strengths. Any coach worth a darn would do the same thing. I don't see this as being a knock. RGIII is flourishing in his offense while Luck has been average to below average in his. The only year Wayne was "forgotten about" was last year when he had steamy trash like Collins and Painter throwing to him. He's a top 10 WR, something RGIII doesn't come close to having. In fact, RGIII has been without his #1 WR for all but 4 or 5 games this year.

True, Luck is a QB of a team that is 8-4 but saying he lead his team to 5 comebacks is misleading a bit because he's the reason they needed to come back in the first place with his 22 to 21 TD/Turnover ration and poor completion percentage.

RGIII is a dual threat. He's an accurate passer that has a rocket arm but also a QB that is shifty and can run a 4.3 forty. Luck is a traditional passer in almost every way. Even without accounting for how much better RGIII has been statistically this year, the fact that he's a dual threat with the kind of passing ability he has will scare DC's more than a traditional passer.


That entire last paragraph doesn't give RG3 a leg up. Luck is almost as fast and in my opinion has better pocket mobility. He is also a dual threat.

However, I dont have a strong opinion here. I voted Wilson, but I am very biased. If I try to remove every bit of bias, my list goes:

RG3
Wilson
Luck

They are all extrmely close, however. I give RG3 the nod just because of his miwnd blowing stats, but I am not his biggest fan. Luck is #3 ONLY because of Lucks turnovers. If he had five or six less picks, he would no doubt be my #1.

And for every RG3 fan sick of Luck being loved by the national media, take a step back, and look at RG3. He is every bit as loved as Luck, if not more so. Im sick of people complaining because he doesnt get as much attention.


I think Luck is doing better than Wilson, given context, but I agree with the sentiment of this post.
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tyler735


Joined: 12 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chpjns15 wrote:
Ketchup wrote:
baconrad3 wrote:
There have been solid points about why RGIII has been better...but I'm sorry...that whole post by Tyler735 is just downright laughable.

If I had 5 minutes of my life to waste...I could write up the EXACT same thing he just did but about Luck essentially making Luck look great and RGIII not so much....

It was all "I've seen RGIII do this, but never seen Luck do it". That's it.

How many Colts games have you watched, Tyler735? One? Two maybe?

Luck's turnovers are what will possibly lose him the ROTY...but to ignore what he's done this year and just glorify RGIII is insane. People moan and complain about all the Luck talk in the media and internet etc...but RGIII is talked about WAY more and that is indisputable.

Tyler says football is a team game. True. But why has Luck improved his team already by 6 wins while RGIII JUST matched his team's previous win totals? I mean, each team had trash at QB last year.

Too bad there's not a "Most Valuable Rookie" Award. Luck would blow everyone out of the water.

Put Mike Vick in Washington's offense and they're still an OK team. Worse than they are now, but not by some huge difference.

Fact is, Shanahan has completely babied RGIII all year with his offensive scheme. He's not asked to do nearly as much as Luck is, despite Luck having arguably less talent around him except for a 34 year old Reggie Wayne, who btw had been completely forgotten about up until #12 started throwing him the ball this year.

RGIII is having a better year...statistically. Luck has his team at 8-4 and has led them to come from behind victories 5 times. It's really subjective at this point as to which is more impressive.

And LOL at saying RGIII strikes fear into opponents but Luck doesn't. That's the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Fact is, both are playing incredible football. I don't think we'll ever see anything like this again, where two rookie QBs are this good at the same time. It really is amazing.

But in the end, I think Luck will be the better QB. He will win more Superbowls (IMO) and will be considered the best in the league during his prime.
No he's not. I've heard Luck being refereed to as having a "magic arm". Luck has been getting almost all the praise and it's simply because the Colts team has won 2 more games then the Redskins.

The Colts are NOTHING like the 2011 team. They overhauled everything from players to a whole new FO and coaching staff. The Redskins, not so much. Can't compare the 2011 Colts to the 2012 Colts. Anybody should be able to see that.

That's your opinion. The stats say otherwise and they say otherwise pretty vehemently.

RGIII runs an offense that is made for him and to his strengths. Any coach worth a darn would do the same thing. I don't see this as being a knock. RGIII is flourishing in his offense while Luck has been average to below average in his. The only year Wayne was "forgotten about" was last year when he had steamy trash like Collins and Painter throwing to him. He's a top 10 WR, something RGIII doesn't come close to having. In fact, RGIII has been without his #1 WR for all but 4 or 5 games this year.

True, Luck is a QB of a team that is 8-4 but saying he lead his team to 5 comebacks is misleading a bit because he's the reason they needed to come back in the first place with his 22 to 21 TD/Turnover ration and poor completion percentage.

RGIII is a dual threat. He's an accurate passer that has a rocket arm but also a QB that is shifty and can run a 4.3 forty. Luck is a traditional passer in almost every way. Even without accounting for how much better RGIII has been statistically this year, the fact that he's a dual threat with the kind of passing ability he has will scare DC's more than a traditional passer.


That entire last paragraph doesn't give RG3 a leg up. Luck is almost as fast and in my opinion has better pocket mobility. He is also a dual threat.

However, I dont have a strong opinion here. I voted Wilson, but I am very biased. If I try to remove every bit of bias, my list goes:

RG3
Wilson
Luck

They are all extrmely close, however. I give RG3 the nod just because of his miwnd blowing stats, but I am not his biggest fan. Luck is #3 ONLY because of Lucks turnovers. If he had five or six less picks, he would no doubt be my #1.

And for every RG3 fan sick of Luck being loved by the national media, take a step back, and look at RG3. He is every bit as loved as Luck, if not more so. Im sick of people complaining because he doesnt get as much attention.


So Baconrad you don't want stats, and want to go by what each player brings to the game, but can't have a real conversation when someone brings up valid points on things RG3 does better than Luck?? You call out people for not watching football since they use stats to solidify their case on which player is better, but then try to use Wins/Losses which just happens to be a stat. Even better you try to say that wins/losses are determined by one player Laughing My favorite comment was "put Vick in the redskins offense and they will be just fine" Keep living in your fantasy land there champ...

Luck is almost as fast??? come on man!! take the goggles off for a second. RG3 is an elite/world class track runner, ran a 4.35 40, has multiple 20+ yard runs, and has the longest TD run by a QB in 15+ years...
Luck ran close to the same 40 time of Carson Palmer, hasn't broken even a 20+ yard run, and strikes little fear in D's with his mobility in comparison to RG3...

Watch the differences in how Dlineman, and LB's react to RG3 in comparison to Luck durng games...

Or maybe read comments made by D-coordinator's/Defensive players about defending each player, and you will have a clear picture of who is obviously the nightmare to defend/gameplan for of the two QB's...I don't think I've heard anyone ever call Luck the fastest player on the field, but definitely have heard it mentioned for RG3 Laughing
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Meeker


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody wrote:
LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him.


And what does 2 game winning drives* (97 and 80 yards) to win in Chicago say?

Nitpicking is fun and all, but its kind of dumb.
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think anyone denies that Luck is a great talent and has great clutch ability, but he is one of the least efficient passers in the league.

Imagine when he becomes a more efficient passer Shocked He's going to be hard to stop. But as of now, he is a pretty inefficient passer and makes many mistakes. He's a rookie though, so it's not an indictment on him.
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Tom Shean


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeker wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him.


And what does 2 game winning drives* (97 and 80 yards) to win in Chicago say?

Nitpicking is fun and all, but its kind of dumb.
What about being last in the league in pass attempts (341) and second in rushing attempts (435)?

Does that say a little something?
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SupeRG00F


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
Meeker wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him.


And what does 2 game winning drives* (97 and 80 yards) to win in Chicago say?

Nitpicking is fun and all, but its kind of dumb.
What about being last in the league in pass attempts (341) and second in rushing attempts (435)?

Does that say a little something?
It seems to say that when called upon, Wilson delivers.

If Luck had a run game would you not think he's the best rookie QB? I don't understand why it's a bad thing the Wilson has that and "weapons" around him and that makes him a worse QB between the three..

You'd think if Wilson was bad, these weapons wouldn't be producing.

Just look at last year with Tarvaris Jackson at QB and how bad of a year everyone had besides the run game. There hasn't been any change at WR or TE from last year besides practice squad. Wilson just doesn't HAVE to throw it all game long to win games, but he's shown he CAN do it if need be.
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Plush


Joined: 24 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Shean wrote:
Meeker wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him.


And what does 2 game winning drives* (97 and 80 yards) to win in Chicago say?

Nitpicking is fun and all, but its kind of dumb.
What about being last in the league in pass attempts (341) and second in rushing attempts (435)?

Does that say a little something?


Yea, it says they have an elite RB and don't have to pass the ball to win. Let's not pretend like Wilson would just deflate as a passer with more attempts, his 30+ games have been outstanding.


Lol at using the 58-0 game against him. He was taken out just after halftime and hardly has to throw. The int was off of a tip and his first at home all year according to hawks fans. You don't have to pass much when you are up 20+. This isn the patriots
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Joe_is_the_best


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Food for thought:

Last 4 games (plus avg defensive rank):
Luck: 87 of 175 (49.7%), 6.63 YPA, 8 TD (4.6%), 9 INT (5.1%), 23.75
Griffin: 61 of 89 (68.5%), 10.26 YPA, 10 TD (11.2%), 1 INT (1.1%), 16.25
Wilson: 63 of 96 (65.6%), 8.89 YPA, 7 TD (7.3%), 1 INT (1%), 13

And some extras:
Weeden: 79 of 127 (62.2%), 7.47 YPA, 4 TD (3%), 3 INT (2.4%), 22
Tannehill: 62 of 116 (53.4%), 6.29 YPA, 3 TD (2.6%), 3 INT (2.6%), 10.25
Foles: 91 of 152 (59.9 %), 6.28 YPA, 3 TD (2%), 3 INT (2%), 21.5
Sanu Wink: 1 of 1 (100%), 73 YPA, 1 TD (100%), 0 INT (0%)

If the stats were comparable, I would gladly say Luck is playing the best... but it's not the case. People are always enamored with comebacks, so obviously that holds some weight, but he's getting blown away by Griffin & Wilson.
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Tooki


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SupeRG00F wrote:
Tom Shean wrote:
Meeker wrote:
Nobody wrote:
LOL Laughing Wilson over Luck! ^^^^^ That's hilarious! When a team can beat a another team 58-0 with the winning team's QB throwing 1 TD to 1 INT you know he's a product of the talent around him.


And what does 2 game winning drives* (97 and 80 yards) to win in Chicago say?

Nitpicking is fun and all, but its kind of dumb.
What about being last in the league in pass attempts (341) and second in rushing attempts (435)?

Does that say a little something?
It seems to say that when called upon, Wilson delivers.

If Luck had a run game would you not think he's the best rookie QB? I don't understand why it's a bad thing the Wilson has that and "weapons" around him and that makes him a worse QB between the three..

You'd think if Wilson was bad, these weapons wouldn't be producing.

Just look at last year with Tarvaris Jackson at QB and how bad of a year everyone had besides the run game. There hasn't been any change at WR or TE from last year besides practice squad. Wilson just doesn't HAVE to throw it all game long to win games, but he's shown he CAN do it if need be.


Thank you

I'm sure that Russell Wilson could throw 30 times a game and have success, but when Marshawn Lynch is running for 4.9 YPC, why wouldn't you utilise that and give Russell Wilson the best introduction to the NFL?
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mozwanted


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You definitely have to factor in RG3 and Wilsons dual threat ability which makes the production of the RB increase.

Seattle and washingotons running game wasnt that respectable last year. It was a big jump in production this year. This production can be directly associated with the talent and ability rg3 and wilson force onto the defense. You definitely have to credit them for the running game production.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mozwanted wrote:
You definitely have to factor in RG3 and Wilsons dual threat ability which makes the production of the RB increase.

Seattle and washingotons running game wasnt that respectable last year. It was a big jump in production this year. This production can be directly associated with the talent and ability rg3 and wilson force onto the defense. You definitely have to credit them for the running game production.


False. Beast Mode had arguably the best second half of any RB in the league. Plus he did that with T-Jack at the helm.
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mozwanted


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tooki wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
You definitely have to factor in RG3 and Wilsons dual threat ability which makes the production of the RB increase.

Seattle and washingotons running game wasnt that respectable last year. It was a big jump in production this year. This production can be directly associated with the talent and ability rg3 and wilson force onto the defense. You definitely have to credit them for the running game production.


False. Beast Mode had arguably the best second half of any RB in the league. Plus he did that with T-Jack at the helm.


They were 21st in rushing last season.
This season they are 4th.
They already have more rushing yards this season then they had all of last season.

Theirs a big gap between 21 and being 4th
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