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| Is Frazier the HC in 2013? |
| Yes? |
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55% |
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| No? |
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44% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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Freakout
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 1764
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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I think he is gone and there is more involved than the record. I believe Rick Spielman, from the moment he became General Manager, has wanted to reshape this team in his vision. Fraizer is simply a hold over from a failed coaching staff that should have been ripped out by the roots.
Everything I have read says that keeping Fraizer doesn't hinge on the record. Instead it will be about how this team plays and progresses. Well I do not see it.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66562
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Freakout wrote: | | I think he is gone and there is more involved than the record. I believe Rick Spielman, from the moment he became General Manager, has wanted to reshape this team in his vision. Fraizer is simply a hold over from a failed coaching staff that should have been ripped out by the roots. |
and we also know that Spielman wanted to "blow up" the team's roster a full year earlier than when he started. who held him back...?
Frazier. with decisions like investing in McNabb.
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| Webmaster wrote: | | Can we knock off all the nonsense and stick to football? |
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 16906
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | Freakout wrote: | | I think he is gone and there is more involved than the record. I believe Rick Spielman, from the moment he became General Manager, has wanted to reshape this team in his vision. Fraizer is simply a hold over from a failed coaching staff that should have been ripped out by the roots. |
and we also know that Spielman wanted to "blow up" the team's roster a full year earlier than when he started. who held him back...?
Frazier. with decisions like investing in McNabb. |
That's the way GM's tend to work in this league. Give the incumbent a year and, unless there are earth shattering results, replace them the next year
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Uncle Buck
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 14032
Location: Viking Country
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | Freakout wrote: | | I think he is gone and there is more involved than the record. I believe Rick Spielman, from the moment he became General Manager, has wanted to reshape this team in his vision. Fraizer is simply a hold over from a failed coaching staff that should have been ripped out by the roots. |
and we also know that Spielman wanted to "blow up" the team's roster a full year earlier than when he started. who held him back...?
Frazier. with decisions like investing in McNabb. |
I almost forgot about that. Excellent point.
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disaacs
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 19963
Location: Brownbackistan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LostRoadStone wrote: | My short list of HC candidates;
1. Greg Roman
2. Mike McCoy
3. Gus Bradley
4. Jay Gruden
5. Gary Patterson |
None of those would be an upgrade...and outside of McCoy, none of them even deserve a chance to be a NFL head coach.
And on Frazier, people who think he should be fired based upon his sideline demeanor should never, ever hold a management job, because they have no idea how any business works, let alone even a football team (which is a lot more complex than you may think).
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Last edited by disaacs on Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Freakout
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 1764
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| vike daddy wrote: | | Freakout wrote: | | I think he is gone and there is more involved than the record. I believe Rick Spielman, from the moment he became General Manager, has wanted to reshape this team in his vision. Fraizer is simply a hold over from a failed coaching staff that should have been ripped out by the roots. |
and we also know that Spielman wanted to "blow up" the team's roster a full year earlier than when he started. who held him back...?
Frazier. with decisions like investing in McNabb. |
Even when Fraizer hired his coaches, Rick made it crystal clear that Fraizer had complete control over who he hired. That way he could distance himself from the situation.
I also think it is part of the reason Rick dealt mostly with one year contracts. I know you can point at Carlson but at the time we only had one Tight End on the roster (Kyle Rudolph). The big blunder in that decision was the price.
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vike daddy
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 66562
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| disaacs wrote: | | And on Frazier, people who think he should be fired based upon his sideline demeanor should never, ever hold a management job, because they have no idea how any business works, let alone even a football team (which is a lot more complex than you may think). |
guys who want a more animated coach, and thinking it would somehow help the team, would have hated Bud Grant as a coach.
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PrplChilPill
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 7793
Location: SLP, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just don't think they are well coached. I have no proof, it's an eye test, and I hate eye tests. But I saw a team come out of the bye totally flat.
The defense is 18th in points allowed, I don't care what their rank is in yardage. Also, that 11 minute drive yesterday had nothing to do with the offense not being on the field. 2nd and 20 and 3rd and 12 have nothing to do with the offense of the Vikings. The DLine is underperforming big time (they are not rotating players like they planned at all).
The passing attack is stupid. He can't throw the deep ball, yet they keep trying. They dont' run screens at all. No slants, nothing. They could find no way to get Wright the ball yesterday.
I have never believed in Frazier. I just don't see any fire in the team. He can be stone faced boring guy all he wants, but the team can't. Not this team. Not with this talent level.
I expect him to keep his job after they finish 7-9. I then expect them to be about .500 again next year.
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 16906
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I too am baffled at the complete lack of screens. AP in space with the athletic Matt Kalil out in front is a scary combo and we've seen it work!
I find myself calling for screens quite often on Sunday's
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vikingsrule
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 39411
Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes!
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| rpmwr19 wrote: | I too am baffled at the complete lack of screens. AP in space with the athletic Matt Kalil out in front is a scary combo and we've seen it work!
I find myself calling for screens quite often on Sunday's |
From a personnel stand point, i wonder if the staff doesnt trust the interior line in space. I know interior lineman are vital for screen plays in terms of getting out in space and blocking.I have made this observation as well, not enough screen plays are being run. But it could also have something to do with so many players in the box to stop Peterson and Harvin. Might be hard to execute. |
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Vikes_Bolts1228
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 3536
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think he should be fired.
Keep in mind...this team had ZERO expectations going into the season. Zero, none, nadda, zilch. Although I'm not happy with how the team is playing NOW, most of us expected this ALL SEASON, not just the past month or so.
Even with the fast start and the poor stretch now, this team was set up to be a rebuilding project with no expectations. This team has a chance to finish 8-8 when many thought it'd be a miracle to get 6 wins. SIX WINS IS A GIFT.
Would we be having this conversation is the team was 2-10 right now? We would not because a crappy season was expected by a good majority of Vikings fans full well knowing that as the youngest team in the NFL, we were in the midst of a full rebuild.
So for the most part, the Vikings are exceeding most expectations yet we want the coach fired? What?!?!
Be honest, if this team started the way they're playing now and finished the way they played to start the season, you all would be praising Frazier for Coach of the Year.
And I'm so sick of hearing how Frazier shows no emotion on the sidelines or at press conferences. It has NOTHING to do with Frazier as a coach. Do you want him to yell and scream and his player? You want him to call players out in public? HOW MANY COACHES IN ANY SPORT DO THAT?! They're the exact same. That's one hell of a way to lose a locker room.
Do any of you know what happens behind closed doors? No. How do we know if he doesn't bark at players when out of the media's eye?
You know who was the exact same way Frazier is? Bud Grant. Yet we don't hear people saying that he needed to show emotion.
Now Musgrave...that's a different story.
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 16906
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I don't see the improvement in this team other than the record, but I attribute that to a weak opening schedule and playing the Lions twice.
This team hasn't improved and it shows when we play top competition. The lone exception being the 49ers but that took a perfect game from Ponder and the defense.
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Vikes_Bolts1228
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 3536
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| rpmwr19 wrote: | I don't see the improvement in this team other than the record, but I attribute that to a weak opening schedule and playing the Lions twice.
This team hasn't improved and it shows when we play top competition. The lone exception being the 49ers but that took a perfect game from Ponder and the defense. |
So you can attribute the good start to a weak opening schedule but you can't attribute the team's recent struggles to a difficult mid-late season schedule but rather the coaching?
Talk about a double standard. The team plays well and you say it's only a product of a weak schedule but when the team struggles against some of the top teams in the NFL and it's all on the coaching?
And I LOVE how people give credit to Ponder/defense for the 9ers win and give the coaching zero credit yet blame all the loses on the coaching and blame the team's play on the coaches and not preparing the team.
Yet another double standard.
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rpmwr19
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 16906
Location: Stillwater, MN
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Vikes_Bolts1228 wrote: | | rpmwr19 wrote: | I don't see the improvement in this team other than the record, but I attribute that to a weak opening schedule and playing the Lions twice.
This team hasn't improved and it shows when we play top competition. The lone exception being the 49ers but that took a perfect game from Ponder and the defense. |
So you can attribute the good start to a weak opening schedule but you can't attribute the team's recent struggles to a difficult mid-late season schedule but rather the coaching?
Talk about a double standard. The team plays well and you say it's only a product of a weak schedule but when the team struggles against some of the top teams in the NFL and it's all on the coaching?
And I LOVE how people give credit to Ponder/defense for the 9ers win and give the coaching zero credit yet blame all the loses on the coaching and blame the team's play on the coaches and not preparing the team.
Yet another double standard. |
Not a double standard.
When did I see the team played well in it's wins? Our offense was pathetic in the first Lions game, but we escaped with a win. I attributed the wins to a week opening schedule, and not a week opening schedule paired with good play. You're reading into things I never said.
I also didn't say that the coaching staff had nothing to do with the 49ers win(I did forget to include them in my post) . It was the only game where it appeared we had a good all around game plan and the players executed. If I'm wrong please point out another such game.
This team has routinely showed an inability to make in game adjustments or adjust at all. I've never seen a team come out as flat as the Vikings did coming out of their bye. That is completely on coaching.
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Vikes_Bolts1228
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 3536
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| rpmwr19 wrote: | | Vikes_Bolts1228 wrote: | | rpmwr19 wrote: | I don't see the improvement in this team other than the record, but I attribute that to a weak opening schedule and playing the Lions twice.
This team hasn't improved and it shows when we play top competition. The lone exception being the 49ers but that took a perfect game from Ponder and the defense. |
So you can attribute the good start to a weak opening schedule but you can't attribute the team's recent struggles to a difficult mid-late season schedule but rather the coaching?
Talk about a double standard. The team plays well and you say it's only a product of a weak schedule but when the team struggles against some of the top teams in the NFL and it's all on the coaching?
And I LOVE how people give credit to Ponder/defense for the 9ers win and give the coaching zero credit yet blame all the loses on the coaching and blame the team's play on the coaches and not preparing the team.
Yet another double standard. |
It was the only game where it appeared we had a good all around game plan and the players executed. |
Now I ask you...if the players aren't executing, how much do you assert that to coaching or just poor talent?
Look at what Frazier has to work with. Do you think that any coach could be a playoff team with the team given to Frazier as it stands right now?
Legit question.
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