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NPBrowns
Joined: 16 Sep 2008
Posts: 329
Location: New Philadelphia, OH
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 Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ReggieCamp wrote: | If I were a betting man, I would bet that Banner lets both guys walk in the offseason. That's just me guessing on his past history with players this age.
I agree that I'm not thrilled by about creating any more holes, but I can't see Banner re-signing either guy. |
I'm with Reg on this one. Banner probably would have had to sign off on the trade that sent Brown from Philly to us anyways.
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 9909
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that.
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DawgSoldier
Joined: 30 Oct 2007
Posts: 5947
Location: Medina OH
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you.
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Entropy
Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 1909
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgSoldier wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you. |
Did it help their CBs too? just sayin'
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4772
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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A sloppy field is actually much harder for DBs to play on, not easier as DS suggest.
Ben Watson has come on out of no where the last 3-4 weeks. He has not looked this athletic and quick since 2010. He has clearly shed weight since the beginning of the season and the bye week help him a lot. If he makes an effort to stay in shape I would gladly sign him for a 2 year deal.
Sheldon Brown is another story. Yes, he has been great, but he has also been awful. He has old legs and that is what you get with a 33 year old DB. He is an up and down player from game to game and play to play. I would only sign him to a vet mimimum contact as insurance in case we cannot land a better #2 in Free Agency or the Draft. Honestly if we are not trying to get better at CB then we are not a team trying to improve period.
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bulldog
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 4383
Location: Salem
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgSoldier wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you. |
If the tape from week 6 against CIN doesn't show you that he CAN still play, then there is no helping you.
interesting stats-
Brown has allowed 111 YAC, 11th best in the league. (no including the oakland game)
He has allowed 56.5% of the passes his way to be completed, 36th best in the NFL, 22nd among starting CB's.
QB's throwing at him have a 68.5 QB rating, 19th best in the NFL.
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 9909
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgSoldier wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you. |
As KamTrus said, a sloppy field hurts a DB more than a WR. A WR knows what his rotue is and where he will be going while a DB doesn't know. A WR will be prepared for what move he will make while a DB won't be so he's more likely to slip than a WR is.
He deserves to be cut because of one bad game? I'd say he's had more good games than bad games this year. Who do you replace him with? No one on this roster. That just creates another need for the Browns this offseason. If they do have to add a cornerback, I hope it's via free agency and not the draft. They are already without a second-round pick and this secondary doesn't need another inexperienced player.
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DawgX
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 9909
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| bulldog wrote: | | DawgSoldier wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you. |
If the tape from week 6 against CIN doesn't show you that he CAN still play, then there is no helping you.
interesting stats-
Brown has allowed 111 YAC, 11th best in the league. (no including the oakland game)
He has allowed 56.5% of the passes his way to be completed, 36th best in the NFL, 22nd among starting CB's.
QB's throwing at him have a 68.5 QB rating, 19th best in the NFL. |
Thank you for posting these stats. This just shows that he's much better than he's given credit for. The YAC is interesting because QBs are much more likely to throw his way since they'll want to avoid Haden. And even though he's thrown at quite a lot, he still doesn't give up a ton of yards after the catch.
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bulldog
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 4383
Location: Salem
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| DawgX wrote: | | bulldog wrote: | | DawgSoldier wrote: | | DawgX wrote: | These guys don't get enough credit. Some act like Sheldon Brown is garbage but that's far from the case. He just isn't fast but he held his own vs. DHB, whose biggest strength is his speed.
Watson is still a very solid tight end. That's why I don't get why so many want to bring in a new tight end. He's a solid receiver and a good blocker. With him and Cameron continuing to develop, the Browns could have a pretty good TE duo.
I hope both are resigned. But as others have said, it might not happen due to Banner not being one to typically resign aging players. If both could be resigned to two-year deals, then I'd be very happy with that. |
The sloppy field helped with that A LOT. Brown should be cut or Retire. he needs replaced. If the tape from the Cowboys game doesn't show you that, then I can't help you. |
If the tape from week 6 against CIN doesn't show you that he CAN still play, then there is no helping you.
interesting stats-
Brown has allowed 111 YAC, 11th best in the league. (no including the oakland game)
He has allowed 56.5% of the passes his way to be completed, 36th best in the NFL, 22nd among starting CB's.
QB's throwing at him have a 68.5 QB rating, 19th best in the NFL. |
Thank you for posting these stats. This just shows that he's much better than he's given credit for. The YAC is interesting because QBs are much more likely to throw his way since they'll want to avoid Haden. And even though he's thrown at quite a lot, he still doesn't give up a ton of yards after the catch. |
There were many last year that were saying that he was done and over the hill then. So I started making my "state of the franchise" threads to shed some light on debatable topics.
Browns stats are an ongoing one. Last year he was good(much better than anyone gave him credit for. He's even better this year, thus far.
Yes, he's had a bad game. Two really. But so has Joe Haden, Charles Tillman, and Derrelle Revis. It happens.
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bulldog
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 4383
Location: Salem
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| bulldog wrote: | interesting stats-
Brown has allowed 111 YAC, 11th best in the league. (no including the oakland game)
He has allowed 56.5% of the passes his way to be completed, 36th best in the NFL, 22nd among starting CB's.
QB's throwing at him have a 68.5 QB rating, 19th best in the NFL. |
Just to build on this, including all games this week. Here is how Brown looks.
Targeted- 75 (13th most NFL)
Allowed- 40
Percent - 53.3% (22nd best NFL) (11th among starters)
Yards - 462 (21st among starters)
YAC- 124 (12th among starers)
TD- 1
PD - 8 (12th NFL) (11th among starters0
QB rating - 60.0 (10th NFL) (4th best among starters)
Yea, he looks like a guy that needs to retire....
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Dropkick_pride
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 9442
Location: C-bus
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Like him or not, you can't waive Brown (or Watson) until you have Someone to replace him.
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KamTrus20
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 4772
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| Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bulldog wrote: | | bulldog wrote: | interesting stats-
Brown has allowed 111 YAC, 11th best in the league. (no including the oakland game)
He has allowed 56.5% of the passes his way to be completed, 36th best in the NFL, 22nd among starting CB's.
QB's throwing at him have a 68.5 QB rating, 19th best in the NFL. |
Just to build on this, including all games this week. Here is how Brown looks.
Targeted- 75 (13th most NFL)
Allowed- 40
Percent - 53.3% (22nd best NFL) (11th among starters)
Yards - 462 (21st among starters)
YAC- 124 (12th among starers)
TD- 1
PD - 8 (12th NFL) (11th among starters0
QB rating - 60.0 (10th NFL) (4th best among starters)
Yea, he looks like a guy that needs to retire.... |
I agree he has played better than some of us say when he is not having a stinker of a game.
I am going to call BS on the touchdown stat of only 1. We have giving up 19 passing TDs as a team and I guarantee those are not all on the safteys and Skrine.
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gmer47brown
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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once again both guys made a impact and over the past 2 week Brown has looke like our #1 corner.
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LETSGOBROWNIES
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 6846
Location: CINCINNATI
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| gmer47brown wrote: | | once again both guys made a impact and over the past 2 week Brown has looke like our #1 corner. |
Both guys looked good, no doubt, but let's not get carried away.
Haden's our #1...by a long shot.
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FEARtheELF
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 5334
Location: THE Ohio State University
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| Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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No matter how well they play there are gonna be the people who think as soon as someone turns 30 players need to be cut or retire
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