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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: If we are going to change defensive schemes then... Reply with quote

...this coming offseason is the time to do so.

To be clear, I'm not driving the "Fire Lovie" bus nor am I even sure if I want to be on it. But this is the offseason that makes the most sense if it's going to happen.

Think about it. Urlacher is up after this year and may retire. At minimum we need to add a long term replacement now, and unless the new guy is a Urlacher-like athletic freak the player will need to be a fit to the scheme meaning adding a guy to fit for Lovie in 2013 and then potentially changing schemes in 2014 may mean the relative waste of a high draft pick. Melton is a UFA after the season, and if he isn't a fit for a new scheme (he's ideal as a 3-technique but not sure where he fits in other schemes) then he'd be a very expensive misfit after getting extended. This year's #1 pick (the first of this front office's regime) is a better fit as a pass rushing OLB than a cover 2 DE. Our other young starters (Paea, Conte & Wright, and to a lesser extent Wootton) would all fit in multiple schemes, and the aging vets under contract (Peppers, Briggs and Tillman) would all transition to other schemes adequately.

As much as it is a pain that basically half of our defense is out of contract either this or next year it would be advantageous if a scheme change were to happen at the end of this season. We would certainly have less low-cost flexibility for at least the next few offseasons after this coming one to implement a new scheme.

Again, I'm not pushing Lovie out the door and still expect us to win 2 or 3 of our final 4 games (should beat MIN, AZ and DET in my opinion and finish 11-5). Just something to think about.
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ConVict90


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly feel our defense is heading in the right direction so don't mess with it if it's not broken right? We're on track for 50+ turnovers and most of the credit is given to Lovie (not taking anything away from Marinelli). The defense this year has been one of the best we've seen in years whether you want to admit it or not after today's loss. Yes our vets are aging and we need to find replacements but I don't think it's as urgent as most fans are making it out to be. We still have one more quarter of the season left and once we get the injured guys back I truly feel we will make a impact this year.
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Pack4life7


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.
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TexasBearsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Things haven't changed at all. The mantra of Bears fans is when we win, everything is perfect and all is right with the world. When we lose, no matter how close, everything is bad and needs to be replaced.
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope we don't change schemes.
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ConVict90


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TexasBearsFan wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Things haven't changed at all. The mantra of Bears fans is when we win, everything is perfect and all is right with the world. When we lose, no matter how close, everything is bad and needs to be replaced.


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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you guys are misinterpreting my post. I am not at all saying to fire the head coach right now or to change schemes right now. What I am saying is if they are going to change schemes that doing so this off-season will allow them to do that without having that in between misfit players season that accompanies a lot of scheme changes because the young players are compatible in multiple schemes and because Urlacher is on his way out and because scheme specific Melton is a free agent.

Firing the head coach is only going to help things if the new players match the new scheme as well as the current players match the current regime's scheme. Otherwise we're looking at change for the sake of change which is not a good thing IMO.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I asked Jeff Dickerson and he reiterated what we are talking about that if for some reason, however unlikely at this point, the Bears don't make the playoffs that Lovie will be fired.

If we miss the playoffs this season, again not likely, we will have made the playoffs 1 time in 6 years and that gets any coach fired.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Agreed...even the packers fan can see Lovie & the "Cover 2" isn't the problem lol.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Agreed...even the packers fan can see Lovie & the "Cover 2" isn't the problem lol.


It might not be the problem but if they don't make the playoffs then surely it's entirely possible Lovie is canned and a brand new coaching staff is brought in next season. Whether or not you see it this way, I think the selection of Shea McClellin last year was an indication that Emery is willing to keep his options open. There were better suited players for the Bears 4-3 cover-2 that he could have selected over McClellin IMO.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Agreed...even the packers fan can see Lovie & the "Cover 2" isn't the problem lol.


It might not be the problem but if they don't make the playoffs then surely it's entirely possible Lovie is canned and a brand new coaching staff is brought in next season. Whether or not you see it this way, I think the selection of Shea McClellin last year was an indication that Emery is willing to keep his options open. There were better suited players for the Bears 4-3 cover-2 that he could have selected over McClellin IMO.


Yeah but the core of this D is Cover 2 through and through...you start trying to change this D into a 3-4 and you can forget the playoffs for a couple of years.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Agreed...even the packers fan can see Lovie & the "Cover 2" isn't the problem lol.


It might not be the problem but if they don't make the playoffs then surely it's entirely possible Lovie is canned and a brand new coaching staff is brought in next season. Whether or not you see it this way, I think the selection of Shea McClellin last year was an indication that Emery is willing to keep his options open. There were better suited players for the Bears 4-3 cover-2 that he could have selected over McClellin IMO.


Yeah but the core of this D is Cover 2 through and through...you start trying to change this D into a 3-4 and you can forget the playoffs for a couple of years.


We have been in the playoffs 1/5 years right now, so lets not act like we are ending a dynasty.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Agreed...even the packers fan can see Lovie & the "Cover 2" isn't the problem lol.


It might not be the problem but if they don't make the playoffs then surely it's entirely possible Lovie is canned and a brand new coaching staff is brought in next season. Whether or not you see it this way, I think the selection of Shea McClellin last year was an indication that Emery is willing to keep his options open. There were better suited players for the Bears 4-3 cover-2 that he could have selected over McClellin IMO.


Yeah but the core of this D is Cover 2 through and through...you start trying to change this D into a 3-4 and you can forget the playoffs for a couple of years.


We have been in the playoffs 1/5 years right now, so lets not act like we are ending a dynasty.


Yu would be ending the possibility tho...last year we were going to the playoffs before Jay went down...we will be in the playoffs this year...you mess around with the D and the possibility would be gone for at least a couple of years.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: If we are going to change defensive schemes then... Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
...this coming offseason is the time to do so.

To be clear, I'm not driving the "Fire Lovie" bus nor am I even sure if I want to be on it. But this is the offseason that makes the most sense if it's going to happen.

Think about it. Urlacher is up after this year and may retire. At minimum we need to add a long term replacement now, and unless the new guy is a Urlacher-like athletic freak the player will need to be a fit to the scheme meaning adding a guy to fit for Lovie in 2013 and then potentially changing schemes in 2014 may mean the relative waste of a high draft pick. Melton is a UFA after the season, and if he isn't a fit for a new scheme (he's ideal as a 3-technique but not sure where he fits in other schemes) then he'd be a very expensive misfit after getting extended. This year's #1 pick (the first of this front office's regime) is a better fit as a pass rushing OLB than a cover 2 DE. Our other young starters (Paea, Conte & Wright, and to a lesser extent Wootton) would all fit in multiple schemes, and the aging vets under contract (Peppers, Briggs and Tillman) would all transition to other schemes adequately.

As much as it is a pain that basically half of our defense is out of contract either this or next year it would be advantageous if a scheme change were to happen at the end of this season. We would certainly have less low-cost flexibility for at least the next few offseasons after this coming one to implement a new scheme.

Again, I'm not pushing Lovie out the door and still expect us to win 2 or 3 of our final 4 games (should beat MIN, AZ and DET in my opinion and finish 11-5). Just something to think about.
We SHOULD have beaten Seattle and didn't so winning another two becomes doubtful given the schedule. It will be extremely hard to beat Detroit; they can score points. I see no chance of beating GB. Or evenMinn if they learned from the first game and I suspect they have.

BTAIM this is Smith's defense, if it goes he goes, if he stays it stays. I am not sure that we play a T2 that much anyway and don't see a scheme change coming without a whole new operation coming in.

I always have figured December would tell the tale as to whether Smith stays and it ain't looking good for him. Not only is our schedule brutal but it follows a month of shambles and we do not play well in December in general.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TexasBearsFan wrote:
Pack4life7 wrote:
Oh how quickly things change.

Lovie isn't going anywhere and niether is the Cover 2. Both are far from the problem.


Things haven't changed at all. The mantra of Bears fans is when we win, everything is perfect and all is right with the world. When we lose, no matter how close, everything is bad and needs to be replaced.
Some of us do want a consistent winner which challenges for the championship year in and year out. We are not satisfied with occasional glimpses of the Lombardi Trophy.

We have won 14 games under Smith in which we were behind at the half.

Of course his defenders will claim that this means Bears fans can leave at the half if they are behind and do something not infuriating.
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