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What If We Let Flacco Walk?
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Flacco played "well enough" against Houston.

Flacco played "well enough" against Pittsburgh in 2010 but some costly drops hurt his comeback drive.

Flacco played very well against KC in 2010.

So the past 2 seasons in the playoffs, he's pulled his weight for sure.


I disagree with Houston.

The others I agree with, but like I said, my concern isn't about him having one good game, my concern is him stringing together 2-3 good games to win a SB. He hasn't done that, ever, in the playoffs.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Flacco played "well enough" against Houston.

Flacco played "well enough" against Pittsburgh in 2010 but some costly drops hurt his comeback drive.

Flacco played very well against KC in 2010.

So the past 2 seasons in the playoffs, he's pulled his weight for sure.


I disagree with Houston.

The others I agree with, but like I said, my concern isn't about him having one good game, my concern is him stringing together 2-3 good games to win a SB. He hasn't done that, ever, in the playoffs.


So despite the fact that he essentially got us to the SB last season, but Lee Evans/Cundiff happened, you hold that against Flacco?
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Jaguarfan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flacco right now is by far the best option at QB. If you let him walk, there is no better QB to sign or trade for.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Flacco played "well enough" against Houston.

Flacco played "well enough" against Pittsburgh in 2010 but some costly drops hurt his comeback drive.

Flacco played very well against KC in 2010.

So the past 2 seasons in the playoffs, he's pulled his weight for sure.


I disagree with Houston.

The others I agree with, but like I said, my concern isn't about him having one good game, my concern is him stringing together 2-3 good games to win a SB. He hasn't done that, ever, in the playoffs.


So despite the fact that he essentially got us to the SB last season, but Lee Evans/Cundiff happened, you hold that against Flacco?


No, last year was an abberation because we faced TJ Yates in the playoffs.

I'm saying that if you want to win the Superbowl, you can't just "get by" like he's been doing in the regular season, you need to lead your team. He hasn't done that consistently at any point in his career.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all this being said about Flacco, I still hold he can be a franchise QB, a legit QB, a top 10 QB; we just need to get rid of Cam. It's really that simple. Right now I'm just calling Flacco for what he is, I'm not basing things off of projections of potential or "well, he could do this...", I'm being a realist, not a hater.

I'm watching the NYG game right now on the first drive alone Eli has thrown over the middle 4 times and thrown 2 sideline passes. We throw over the middle MAYBE 4 times an entire game. Now this is just a small sample size but it's also just saddening to watch these offenses work and watch all the motion and creativity they use and then watch our 1970's offense that is probably the most boring in the league.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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GaTechRavens


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the first time, this year I feel like I understand Joe Flacco. I used to say he was such an enigma that he looked like a completely different player each year. This was the annual progression I felt like he displayed:

2008: Jason Campbell
2009: Peak Trent Edwards (yes, Trent Edwards was actually good once)
2010: Drew Bledsoe with terrible playcalling
2011: Ben Roethlisberger on drugs (didn't last the whole season)

The specifics behind each of these comparisons may be hard to explain in hindsight, but the point of it all is that he truly was a confusing player. This year (and the second half of last year), I'm not confused anymore. He is what he is. He has an incredible arm, one that can hit receivers at a distance and in tight spots. He has a relatively poor pocket presence. He's relatively immobile. Those two alone can be overcome, and largely are...here's the thing.

He also suffers from a crippling lack of focus that I don't believe his ego will ever allow him to overcome. This is the part people don't talke about, and it's something that can only come from my gut. It looks like he gets bored out there. He has obvious and prolonged funks whenever it seems like the game isn't at a critical stage. How often do you see a whole quarter go by with something crazy like 15 passing yards? With Flacco, it's something that happens.

His arm alone makes him somewhere between average and above average. And when i say alone, I mean alone. I don't know if there's any other aspect of his game that we could call an asset. That's still good, but is it worth keeping him from 2013 onwards? I'm leaning no.

Now, I used to think that was an explanation for why we always won with him. He'd let up at moments that were obviously important, but would deliver whenever the team needed him most. Now I'm not sure.

I used to believe there was something weird going on in terms of how the Ravens were able to win so much - even with an elite defense, the kind of consistent winning we had was not typical for a team built the way we were. I don't feel that way anymore. I just think we were a team with a great defense, a great rushing attack, a great head coach (for reasons no one could ever hope to quantify - I see "it" with Harbs and I think it's physically impossible for a team to win so much every year with a head coach who isn't genuinely great), and a quarterback who was average at worst. A very conventional formula that is hard to execute, but works. There wasn't a single team in the league that we matched up poorly against. It made us a legitimate Super Bowl contender that wasn't quite able to do it in any particular year (the talk now of us being like the Eagles is stupid - there's no magical barrier that makes us unable to win it all, it just doesn't happen sometimes...and I bet if we replayed each of the last four years, I feel pretty good about our chances of winning it in one of those years). Of course, that's not to say it's over by any means - we have a chance this year whether people feel like we're legit or not, and the organization is too strong to falter for long.

Here's the thing, though. Our foundation is a bit leaky right now. The defense does have to bring in some new elite talent if we're going to make this work in the long run. And signing Flacco to a massive contract just doesn't help our chances of doing that. It might be time for a bit of a rebuild. In a league with an absurd number of young superstars (see the 2011 draft) we're a bit lacking right now. Ngata an Suggs might decline sooner than we expect. Webb, we'll see how he recovers. Rice is a running back and Smith is a receiver - you know how I feel about offensive players who aren't quarterbacks.

I hope we don't rely on a formula that peaked in 2011 to win several years beyond that. It's not killing us this year by any means, and it might not next year as well. But the moment where this current setup will no longer be good enough to give us anything more than a snowball's chance of winning the Super Bowl relatively soon. I don't want to be held hostage by that, and I feel like the most important step is to start over at QB and look for that next franchise guy sooner rather than later, and build up the rest of the team along with him. There's perhaps no organization I trust more to rebuild a team into a winner than the Ravens. Their hesitancy to re-sign Flacco to this point gives me nothing short of incredible confidence in them to make the right decision - which is why no decision of theirs this offseason will surprise me or give me reason to doubt them.

Also...if Greg Cosell is right and Cam Cameron's hideously outdated offense is the problem, I really bleeping hope I didn't just let go of an elite quarterback.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@GaTechRavens: You raise some extremely good points. All I'm going to say is that I am 99.5% sure that Cam Cameron is responsible for Flacco's "enigma" status in the NFL. I'm all for letting your plan unfold if we fire Cam now, go 1-2 years with a new OC and then if Flacco shows no improvement, we start over.
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I'd say he's [Dennis Pitta] the fourth best TE in the division... Cameron > Miller > Gresham > Eiffert = Pitta
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StRawz11


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People have been mentioning that Vick could be a viable replacement for Flacco, but I don't see an upgrade at all. Injury prone and mistake prone.

If this was Vick from 2010 I'd say yeah let's do it, but it's not.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GaTechRavens wrote:

I used to believe there was something weird going on in terms of how the Ravens were able to win so much - even with an elite defense, the kind of consistent winning we had was not typical for a team built the way we were. I don't feel that way anymore. I just think we were a team with a great defense, a great rushing attack, a great head coach (for reasons no one could ever hope to quantify - I see "it" with Harbs and I think it's physically impossible for a team to win so much every year with a head coach who isn't genuinely great), and a quarterback who was average at worst. A very conventional formula that is hard to execute, but works. There wasn't a single team in the league that we matched up poorly against. It made us a legitimate Super Bowl contender that wasn't quite able to do it in any particular year (the talk now of us being like the Eagles is stupid - there's no magical barrier that makes us unable to win it all, it just doesn't happen sometimes...and I bet if we replayed each of the last four years, I feel pretty good about our chances of winning it in one of those years). Of course, that's not to say it's over by any means - we have a chance this year whether people feel like we're legit or not, and the organization is too strong to falter for long.

Here's the thing, though. Our foundation is a bit leaky right now. The defense does have to bring in some new elite talent if we're going to make this work in the long run. And signing Flacco to a massive contract just doesn't help our chances of doing that. It might be time for a bit of a rebuild. In a league with an absurd number of young superstars (see the 2011 draft) we're a bit lacking right now. Ngata an Suggs might decline sooner than we expect. Webb, we'll see how he recovers. Rice is a running back and Smith is a receiver - you know how I feel about offensive players who aren't quarterbacks.


This sounds like a pretty good allusion to the mid 90s chiefs with a few differences here or there.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
People have been mentioning that Vick could be a viable replacement for Flacco, but I don't see an upgrade at all. Injury prone and mistake prone.

If this was Vick from 2010 I'd say yeah let's do it, but it's not.


If you're referring to my post about Vick, I was being completely sarcastic. Just making the point that there are no QBs out there that the Ravens could acquire who would be better than Flacco.

Vick - confidence shot, injury prone fumble-machine
Cassel - So useless he lost his job to Brady Quinn
Matt Moore - An adequate game manager and nothing more
Matt Flynn - Can't even start ahead of a rookie 3rd rounder
Blaine Gabbert - Getting desperate now?
Tim Tebow - Let's not be ridiculous

So yeah, let Flacco walk away and the Ravens can go on to a wonderful 8-8 season in 2013.

The answer is simple. Fire Cam Cameron, bring in an OC who is prepared to build a playbook that complements his entire offense, instead of forcing players into roles they're not comfortable with, and see just how much things improve.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mancunian Raven wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
People have been mentioning that Vick could be a viable replacement for Flacco, but I don't see an upgrade at all. Injury prone and mistake prone.

If this was Vick from 2010 I'd say yeah let's do it, but it's not.


If you're referring to my post about Vick, I was being completely sarcastic. Just making the point that there are no QBs out there that the Ravens could acquire who would be better than Flacco.

Vick - confidence shot, injury prone fumble-machine
Cassel - So useless he lost his job to Brady Quinn
Matt Moore - An adequate game manager and nothing more
Matt Flynn - Can't even start ahead of a rookie 3rd rounder
Blaine Gabbert - Getting desperate now?
Tim Tebow - Let's not be ridiculous

So yeah, let Flacco walk away and the Ravens can go on to a wonderful 8-8 season in 2013.

The answer is simple. Fire Cam Cameron, bring in an OC who is prepared to build a playbook that complements his entire offense, instead of forcing players into roles they're not comfortable with, and see just how much things improve.


I was referring to people saying it in the General Thread
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re-posting from Gen...

GaTechRavens wrote:
Also...if Greg Cosell is right and Cam Cameron's hideously outdated offense is the problem, I really bleeping hope I didn't just let go of an elite quarterback.
First off, great post and at some point when I have more time I'll respond to the rest of your points, but I did want to focus on this, because it gets to the biggest challenge in evaluating Flacco's future potential. I don't like to harp on Cam Cameron that much for his playcalling (even if it is problematic at times), because a.) I think playcalling deficincies can easily be exaggerated with the benefit of hindsight and b.) Flacco has more freedom in the offense this year and is thus jointly complicit in what plays are eventually called, whether because Flacco doesn't audible into something else or because he audibles into some of those questionable plays.

But I do think there's a major problem with Cam Cameron's scheme and it sort of stacks the deck against our offense before we can even talk about playcalling and execution. It's hard to overstate the novelty of watching non-Ravens games and saying, "Huh, that's what a wide open receiver looks like." Part of that comes down to the specific drawbacks of our WR corps, but how much? When every throw is going into traffic because the offense can't manufacture ways to get receivers open unless it's Torrey Smith running past the coverage on a go route, it has to come down partly to scheme. So even if Flacco has the freedom to change Cam's playcalls, if he's picking between plays from a potentially archaic scheme and playbook, we're still not giving ourselves a great shot at succeeding.

That's why I think if this season ends like the last couple have, with another 2 and out performance from the Ravens (or an opening loss this time around) in the playoffs, my preferred route would be to franchise Flacco and hire a new offensive coordinator to see what he's capable of, and what his limitations are, in a more modernized offense. Everyone keeps talking about Norv Turner but honestly I'm a little hesitant to go the route of 'failed ex-HC coming from an Air Coryell background,' even if Norv is a more accomplished OC than Cam was. I just think we owe it to ourselves to find out who exactly Flacco can be, and there's always going to be that caveat as long as Cam Cameron is our offensive coordinator that maybe we're not getting a full answer on who Joe Flacco can be in this league. Maybe Joe takes off in a new offensive system and belatedly starts fulfilling his potential. Or maybe he shows us more of the same. At least if he continues exhibiting his current, frustrating sort of play, we can say more definitively that he's either damaged goods or incapable of ever taking the next step, as Jets fans can now do after years of blaming all of Mark Sanchez's struggles on Brian Schottenheimer.

Either way, I think we have to know the answer to that question before we consider letting a potential franchise quarterback leave town, particularly when this is a weak QB draft class to begin with and there's not that much upside that we could even find anyone better than Flacco. So my ideal situation is to put Flacco in a real offensive system and give it another go next year. If we don't see progress, then maybe we should seriously consider cutting our losses. I want to know if we do cut our losses that we really had the right environment for answering the question of whether he's the quarterback to lead this team for the future.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Re-posting from Gen...

GaTechRavens wrote:
Also...if Greg Cosell is right and Cam Cameron's hideously outdated offense is the problem, I really bleeping hope I didn't just let go of an elite quarterback.
First off, great post and at some point when I have more time I'll respond to the rest of your points, but I did want to focus on this, because it gets to the biggest challenge in evaluating Flacco's future potential. I don't like to harp on Cam Cameron that much for his playcalling (even if it is problematic at times), because a.) I think playcalling deficincies can easily be exaggerated with the benefit of hindsight and b.) Flacco has more freedom in the offense this year and is thus jointly complicit in what plays are eventually called, whether because Flacco doesn't audible into something else or because he audibles into some of those questionable plays.

But I do think there's a major problem with Cam Cameron's scheme and it sort of stacks the deck against our offense before we can even talk about playcalling and execution. It's hard to overstate the novelty of watching non-Ravens games and saying, "Huh, that's what a wide open receiver looks like." Part of that comes down to the specific drawbacks of our WR corps, but how much? When every throw is going into traffic because the offense can't manufacture ways to get receivers open unless it's Torrey Smith running past the coverage on a go route, it has to come down partly to scheme. So even if Flacco has the freedom to change Cam's playcalls, if he's picking between plays from a potentially archaic scheme and playbook, we're still not giving ourselves a great shot at succeeding.

That's why I think if this season ends like the last couple have, with another 2 and out performance from the Ravens (or an opening loss this time around) in the playoffs, my preferred route would be to franchise Flacco and hire a new offensive coordinator to see what he's capable of, and what his limitations are, in a more modernized offense. Everyone keeps talking about Norv Turner but honestly I'm a little hesitant to go the route of 'failed ex-HC coming from an Air Coryell background,' even if Norv is a more accomplished OC than Cam was. I just think we owe it to ourselves to find out who exactly Flacco can be, and there's always going to be that caveat as long as Cam Cameron is our offensive coordinator that maybe we're not getting a full answer on who Joe Flacco can be in this league. Maybe Joe takes off in a new offensive system and belatedly starts fulfilling his potential. Or maybe he shows us more of the same. At least if he continues exhibiting his current, frustrating sort of play, we can say more definitively that he's either damaged goods or incapable of ever taking the next step, as Jets fans can now do after years of blaming all of Mark Sanchez's struggles on Brian Schottenheimer.

Either way, I think we have to know the answer to that question before we consider letting a potential franchise quarterback leave town, particularly when this is a weak QB draft class to begin with and there's not that much upside that we could even find anyone better than Flacco. So my ideal situation is to put Flacco in a real offensive system and give it another go next year. If we don't see progress, then maybe we should seriously consider cutting our losses. I want to know if we do cut our losses that we really had the right environment for answering the question of whether he's the quarterback to lead this team for the future.


Just to echo these sentiments, I caught a bit of the WAS-NYG game last night and have to say that there was one play in particular that got my attention. There was a slight rub that the Giants ran that caused one of the Washignton corners to hit another Washington DB (not a pick at all) and free up the Giants receiver for a long completion. I have never, ever seen anything like this from Cam Cameron.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I'm in camp, keep Flacco no matter what. Franchising Flacco isn't going to help things. Because say we do franchise Flacco (which would cost bank) and then we get a new offensive coordinator and perhaps another great receiver (say Terrence Williams/Robert Woods/DaRick Rogers/Cordarralle Patterson) and then Flacco explodes for huge numbers and is much more consistent... now we have to most definitely pay him something insane. As it stands right now, if we extend Flacco while buying low and fire Cam and now we can continue to move on with Flacco already knowing that at worse we've got an above average QB that can still get us to the Super Bowl as long as we have the right elements in place elsewhere. We know that we can continue to build up our defense because we don't need to keep taking leaps of faiths on QBs.

I mean what's the point? Flacco is "good enough" to get it done. Ozzie knows how to find talent. We're going to have a nice looking team in every season (FTMP). We have a formula that once retooled can continue to get it done. So why rebuild when we don't have to?
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spiritoftruth


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That formula worked because 2 HOF players have been playing on our defense for the last decade or so and we enjoyed many playoff seasons thanks to them. Those players are retiring now and its very unlikely our defense remains top 3 every year like we're used to.
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