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What If We Let Flacco Walk?
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StRawz11


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like many have said, Flacco does give this team the best chance to win as of now.

I said this in the Gen Thread that the Ravens are pretty much stuck with him. The team is too talented to rebuild now and a rookie QB most likely doesnt give the Ravens a better shot at winning.

He'll be extended, like it or not. I'm definitely in the boat of not liking it but understanding that it has to be done.

Missing out on the chance at going after Peyton Manning gives me nightmares sometimes.

Just imagine him on this team.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
Like many have said, Flacco does give this team the best chance to win as of now.

I said this in the Gen Thread that the Ravens are pretty much stuck with him. The team is too talented to rebuild now and a rookie QB most likely doesnt give the Ravens a better shot at winning.

He'll be extended, like it or not. I'm definitely in the boat of not liking it but understanding that it has to be done.

Missing out on the chance of Peyton Manning gives me nightmares sometimes.

Just imagine him on this team.


It'd be a great 2 years -- but we'd also have to let others walk to fit his salary under the cap.
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StRawz11


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
Like many have said, Flacco does give this team the best chance to win as of now.

I said this in the Gen Thread that the Ravens are pretty much stuck with him. The team is too talented to rebuild now and a rookie QB most likely doesnt give the Ravens a better shot at winning.

He'll be extended, like it or not. I'm definitely in the boat of not liking it but understanding that it has to be done.

Missing out on the chance of Peyton Manning gives me nightmares sometimes.

Just imagine him on this team.


It'd be a great 2 years -- but we'd also have to let others walk to fit his salary under the cap.


That's true, but as a fan it would have been fun to see
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DaMenace


Joined: 16 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious. What do you guys think we have in Tyrod Taylor? I saw some good things in the preseason from him. Can't throw all that well and is very raw but I hope he has shot at becoming a starter on another team.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaMenace wrote:
Just curious. What do you guys think we have in Tyrod Taylor? I saw some good things in the preseason from him. Can't throw all that well and is very raw but I hope he has shot at becoming a starter on another team.


I think we have an athletic backup QB.

He's a more athletic Troy Smith, IMO. But, I don't see starter material by any stretch of the imagination -- he just doesn't have the throwing ability to be a full-time starter.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
DaMenace wrote:
Just curious. What do you guys think we have in Tyrod Taylor? I saw some good things in the preseason from him. Can't throw all that well and is very raw but I hope he has shot at becoming a starter on another team.


I think we have an athletic backup QB.

He's a more athletic Troy Smith, IMO. But, I don't see starter material by any stretch of the imagination -- he just doesn't have the throwing ability to be a full-time starter.


This.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.
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coordinator0


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be foolish to let Flacco walk after this season. StRawz11 might have put it best when he said the Ravens were "stuck" with him but I'm pretty happy with him as the QB anyways. This isn't a team that has to completely rebuild and bringing in a rookie QB would probably set them back a few years. Baltimore wouldn't be in a position to get one of the better ones in this draft without giving up a ton to trade up and QBs taken past the 2nd round are a crap shoot at best. I know the recent guys taken in that range (Kaepernick, Dalton, Wilson) are swaying opinions a bit but remember for every one of those guys there are far more Stanton's, Clemmens', Clausen's, Brohm's, Henne's, etc. I would still take Flacco any day over the likes of Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson anyways.

There are no veteran options that are legitimate upgrades over Flacco. Campbell and Moore? Ha, yeah right. Matt Flynn has played extensively in 3 games over his career and betting on him to be better than Flacco is insane. Don't get me started on Vick, I didn't even think people still thought he was good. There aren't going to be any other possible free agent options either since teams don't let good QBs get away unless they already have one and there aren't any of those situations in the NFL right now.

Missing out on Manning (who I didn't want the Ravens to go after anyways) doesn't factor in here at all. This is about the future of the Ravens and their success. Flacco is the best option (for better or worse, I tend to think it's better because I doubt he's maxed out yet) for Baltimore to keep winning. I'm not overly concerned about the money he's going to get either. Good QBs will always cost quite a bit - whether it's Flacco, a rookie they could draft when he gets his second deal, a proven veteran that would be around for a while, whoever.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that the perfect word to describe the situation with Flacco is "stuck". We are stuck with him whether we like it or not, and at this point we have no choice but to extend him and fire Cam Cameron and move in a different direction that way. There's much less chance of our offense having a complete setback if we go for a OC rather than a new QB.

That's my realistic take on the situation. Extend Flacco, fire Cam and let's see what Joe can do with a real offensive coordinator who's not running his offense based around prehistoric concepts.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.
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SnA ExclusiVe


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.
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sp6488


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Not saying he has gotten it done every game in his career. I'm simply responding to the idea that he can't get us to the SB/win it.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sp6488 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Not saying he has gotten it done every game in his career. I'm simply responding to the idea that he can't get us to the SB/win it.


And all I'm saying is that I don't have the confidence that Flacco could put together 2-3 straight solid games against good teams in order to get/win the SB for us.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
sp6488 wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
There's no need to take risks on a QB anymore. Flacco can make all the throws, especially when he has time. Pocket awareness may be a problem, but its gotten a little better each season. Flacco is good enough to get it done. And moreover Flacco's durability/toughness is a key talent as well.

You guys make it sound like we're guaranteed to get a better QB than Flacco. We could get an Andy Dalton, but give Flacco AJ Green... the 3rd best WR in the league with gazelle like fluidity and amazing size/hands... and suddenly he's going to look like a world beater. Dalton is quality, but his TD numbers are largely in part because he has two great redzone weapons and a running game that can't get it done. Moving on we could have a first round pick and get a Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, or Blaine Gabbert- none of whom are better than Flacco. We could get a Sam Bradford and have to worry about consistency and durability.

People are honestly considering Alex Smith? The guy is clearly a product of Jim Harbaugh- who hasn't received enough credit about how much of a QB guru he truly is. Same with Flynn. And neither of them can make all the throws and make them as strong as Flacco.

Speaking of Flacco's arm, he has one of those Brett Favre/Peyton Manning kind of arms that should still be slinging high velocity passes even as he gets older- meaning that's a longer time where we can focus on other areas as a team.

Flacco is the kind of QB that mirrors the ability of his receivers. If he has elite receivers, he's going to make them look just as elite as they are... maybe slightly better. But if he has average receivers, he's only going to make them look above average at best. As long as we can add an elite WR to the bunch, Flacco will be good. We have Smith, but we need more firepower- especially if we're going to continue to rely on our WRs to have to beat their man 1on1 all the time. Terrance Williams and DaRick Rogers look like two viable options. If Keenan Allen falls close enough to the 20s, I honestly wouldn't be against a trade up. Flacco needs another WR that can be a true playmaker, someone that won't be shut down unless they have an average corner on them.


Quote:
Well you can't prove to me that a 2nd round rookie from this year's draft won't be better than Flacco.

I'm confused. Who is that in quotes. If you're saying it, why quote yourself. Either way, I can prove that the vast majority of young QBs picked recently aren't indeed better than Flacco- at best they can be considered on his level. So therefore while I can't prove that they can't be better, I CAN prove how unlikely it is to select such a player unless we can secure a top 2 pick in the draft somehow. And to do that we'd have to suck quite horridly for a full season.


Not my words at all. Someone posted it on here before the season, can't remember who though.

I still like Flacco for us. I don't understand this idea that we're "content" just making it to the playoffs. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but Flacco did enough to get us to the SB last year in the AFCCG.


But the game before that, and the 2 years before that he did not.


Flacco played "well enough" against Houston.

Flacco played "well enough" against Pittsburgh in 2010 but some costly drops hurt his comeback drive.

Flacco played very well against KC in 2010.

So the past 2 seasons in the playoffs, he's pulled his weight for sure.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Flacco walks, and goes somewhere else (and despite what the haters say, there will be plenty of takers for him), then that team will easily become my second team.

I might almost will them to go and win the Superbowl just to rub it in the faces of the Ravens fans who did nothing but complain about the only potential franchise QB the team has ever had.

Then we can see what happens when the team jumps back on the QB carousel, and ends up with some clown who can't even start anywhere else.

Hey, I know! Michael Vick is probably on the way out in Philly. What about him? Or how about Matt Cassel? I hear the fans in Kansas City aren't keen on him sticking around.

Why one earth would anyone say with any confidence that "Flacco cannot win the Superbowl"? I don't care who the QB is, there is no one man capable of winning a team sport like football on his own. Just doesn't happen.

Even Brady and Peyton Manning aren't throwing, receiving, blocking and rushing all on their own, you know. They have quite a bit of help, and really good coaching and playcalling to boot.

Fire Cam, promote Caldwell, get a new QB coach. All fairly straightforward moves, if you ask me. Not controversial, not outlandish. If you don't want Caldwell as OC, then there are trained apes who could call better games on a consistent basis than Cam Cameron.
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