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Climate Change equals Coaching change?
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Posts: 4117
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
Ockham wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
-Hope- wrote:
ragevsuall17 wrote:
As far as keeping anyone from this current staff around... that is a huge mistake. Munchack was the guy who went after these coordinators... they were his guys. This season, he tries to make Palmer the scapegoat... but all I've got to say to that is this:

86-137, 62%, 1024 yards, 7.5 y/a, 6 TDs, 2 Ints, 71 long, 94 QB rating
69-132, 53%, 860 yards, 6.5 y/a, 3 TDs, 7 Ints, 39 long, 58 QB rating


Those are Locker's stats this year... the first set of numbers with Palmer as the OC... the second set after Palmer's been gone.

...holy crap.

I'm just going to quote myself again to emphasize how unbelievably terrible this is.

Seriously, with Munch making moves like this, how could anybody possibly argue in his favor? Dude needs to go.
Perhaps this has more to do with losing Stewart and Hutchinson for the year than losing Palmer as an OC.


While the line has not been able to generate any kind of push for the run game, they've held up alright in the pass game. Those 3 key missed psses we saw this past week.... all underthrows or behind the WRs... while not receiving heavy pressure... shows that something is leading to the regression.

But if I was the OC and I was so concerned about the Oline play, I'd start calling more roll outs, moving the pocket around, giving the Oline the advantage of knowing where the QB is going to set up. Jake is also pretty effective on the move. But we're not seeing that. You'd think our HOF OL now HC would be able to help prepare the team for that.

But you don't see that. You see no adjustments... no innovation... no sign of being proactive in the game plans instead of reactive. A change needs to happen... and that starts at the top. Since Bud is obviously not selling the team, then it means the GM or the HC need to be replaced. The talent is there, so I think this is more of a coaching problem.

BRING FISHER BACK!!!


Never know what you've got til it's gone, eh?

If only we had let him build the team he wanted. Still hate Bud Adams for picking VY.
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titansNvolsR#1


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still don't miss Fisher. Still glad he's gone. Munch sucking doesn't mean Fisher wasn't sucking.
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titansNvolsR#1 wrote:
Still don't miss Fisher. Still glad he's gone. Munch sucking doesn't mean Fisher wasn't sucking.


Fisher's "sucking" wasn't a result of bad coaching from Fisher. It's a result of Bud Adams butting his nose in when he has no reason to. Now Fisher has the Rams on the rise because they're letting him build the team he wants there.

It's obvious his message got stale here, but that was in large part due to VY. Fisher is still one of the better coaches in the NFL and will probably win a superbowl before his career is done.
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Titanium


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad it took Fisher 5 freakin' years to put his foot down about VY. If he had had any balls he would have told BA to pick someone else in that draft.
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TitanLegend


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titanium wrote:
Too bad it took Fisher 5 freakin' years to put his foot down about VY. If he had had any balls he would have told BA to pick someone else in that draft.


Bud Adams is the only one in the organization that wanted VY. No coach, GM, or anyone else can overrule the owner. He made the choice.
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Dionysus


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can keep fooling yourselves about Fisher if you want, but the truth is VY or no VY, he wasn't going to take us any further than what he did. Fisher is a good players coach and he can make a team competitive, but that's about it. He's not a championship caliber coach, and he proved it almost every time he faced one. He's a good motivator and gets a lot out of his players, but his schemes were too basic and predictable and again he had no killer instinct (I know I said that about a million times). He would hardly ever put opponents away when he had on them ropes. No matter how our defense was dominating the other team all game, they were always within a one-score striking distance of tying or winning the game to the end. Half of the time, I believed the team succeeded in spite of his bland coaching. He always got outcoached by more creative minds who had less roster talent than we did.

Even if Fisher would've built the team he wanted (which most likely would've been all USC), he would've had either Matt Leinhart or Jay Cutler running the show. Quite frankly, Leinhart's work ethic is nothing to write home about, and Cutler acts like a little whiney b-tch when things don't go right. So who's to say that either of them would've been any better than VY overall? Floyd Reese wanted to draft Devin Hester in the 2nd round, but Fisher wanted LenDale and got him. Way to go Fish!!! Who made the better choice there? The Hester/LenDale thing didn't really have anything to do with my point, but I just wanted to throw that in there. Anyway Fisher had 17 years at it and couldn't get over the hump. And I don't see him doing it with the Rams either.

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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could have lived with keeping Fisher, cause I had confidence that if he could have picked his own QB, the franchise could see some success.

Our coach needs to be able to motivate. I'm not so big on having to have the biggest X and O playcaller as a HC. I need someone that can manage and has a knowledge of the game. Someone that can motivate his players and coaches. Has an eye for talent and knows how to pick coaches who can teach.

FYI we play Fisher next year in St. Louis. Should be fun...lol
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TitanLegend


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dionysus wrote:
You can keep fooling yourselves about Fisher if you want, but the truth is VY or no VY, he wasn't going to take us any further than what he did. Fisher is a good players coach and he can make a team competitive, but that's about it. He's not a championship caliber coach, and he proved it almost every time he faced one. He's a good motivator and gets a lot out of his players, but his schemes were too basic and predictable and again he had no killer instinct (I know I said that about a million times). He would hardly ever put opponents away when he had on them ropes. No matter how our defense was dominating the other team all game, they were always within a one-score striking distance of tying or winning the game to the end. Half of the time, I believed the team succeeded in spite of his bland coaching. He always got outcoached by more creative minds who had less roster talent than we did.

Even if Fisher would've built the team he wanted (which most likely would've been all USC), he would've had either Matt Leinhart or Jay Cutler running the show. Quite frankly, Leinhart's work ethic is nothing to write home about, and Cutler acts like a little whiney b-tch when things don't go right. So who's to say that either of them would've been any better than VY overall? Floyd Reese wanted to draft Devin Hester in the 2nd round, but Fisher wanted LenDale and got him. Way to go Fish!!! Who made the better choice there? The Hester/LenDale thing didn't really have anything to do with my point, but I just wanted to throw that in there. Anyway Fisher had 17 years at it and couldn't get over the hump. And I don't see him doing it with the Rams either.


Fisher wasn't going to draft a quarterback, if I remember correctly. He was going to stick with McNair. Or at the very least, was going to keep McNair and allow a QB to learn under him. Bud ruined that as well, though.

And you talk about our playoff appearances/failures as if the issues in those playoff games were due to coaching..they weren't. Drew Bennett drops a perfectly thrown pass by McNair in 03 on 4th down. Kevin Dyson just can't quite reach the goal line in the superbowl. Eddie George bobbles a pass right in to Ray Lewis' arms in 00. The Ravens intentionally injure CJ and we fumble and throw INTs in the redzone in 08. Our offense in 07 was just...ugh. Vince was trying his "I'm a pocket passer" BS, White was decent but not enough to carry us, had no dominant receiver, etc.

The only loss in the playoffs that was "bad" was the Raiders AFC Championship game, and everything just fell apart after the 1st half, for whatever reason.

People, and this season is a prime example with the firing of Chris Palmer, like to blame coaches for players lack of execution. People do just that when talking about Fisher's "failures" in the playoffs. We had chances to win almost all of our playoff games(07 Chargers is the only game I feel we stood no chance), but didn't because of lack of execution. Not because failures from our coaches.

I've never claimed Fisher to be on Belichick's level or anything rediculous like that..but he knows how to build a team and can be very successful.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:

People, and this season is a prime example with the firing of Chris Palmer, like to blame coaches for players lack of execution. People do just that when talking about Fisher's "failures" in the playoffs. We had chances to win almost all of our playoff games(07 Chargers is the only game I feel we stood no chance), but didn't because of lack of execution. Not because failures from our coaches.


Well Said....
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Titans fan 617


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingTitan wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:

People, and this season is a prime example with the firing of Chris Palmer, like to blame coaches for players lack of execution. People do just that when talking about Fisher's "failures" in the playoffs. We had chances to win almost all of our playoff games(07 Chargers is the only game I feel we stood no chance), but didn't because of lack of execution. Not because failures from our coaches.


Well Said....


That Chargers game we played them very tough and the team was put in a bad spot losing one of our best WRs in practice that week in Roydell Williams and losing one of VYs best targets no matter how many people hated him in Bo Scaife. 08 was not Fishers fault 3 fumbles a pick and the loss of CJ and a missed FG before the half beat us. I dont like to blame coaches but im just not confident in this group of coaches under Munchak. Munch im still on the fence about but this is prob the best chance to add some coordinators or some coaches with credibility. I know you dont win on credibility but Norv Turner is a good coordinator i wouldnt mind him as one. Wade Phillips went back to a coordinator and hes done very well in Houston. You have guys out there in the college and Pro levels that can prob come in an make a difference in Kelly Gruden Turner and Andy Reid and im sure theres others. I dont care what happens i really dont i just want to do what gives us the best chance to win 2 out of the last 3 seasons our season pretty much ends in Novemeber its terrible and a horrible feeling. I want to root for the Titans in January not root for 11 teams to beat the Patriots who ever gets the Pats in the playoffs. If Grey and company are gonna turn it around soon then fine but this year was a big step back we took 3 or 4 steps back after going 9-7 when i think this Titans team was better than last years
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TitanLegend


Joined: 18 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titans fan 617 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:

People, and this season is a prime example with the firing of Chris Palmer, like to blame coaches for players lack of execution. People do just that when talking about Fisher's "failures" in the playoffs. We had chances to win almost all of our playoff games(07 Chargers is the only game I feel we stood no chance), but didn't because of lack of execution. Not because failures from our coaches.


Well Said....


That Chargers game we played them very tough and the team was put in a bad spot losing one of our best WRs in practice that week in Roydell Williams and losing one of VYs best targets no matter how many people hated him in Bo Scaife. 08 was not Fishers fault 3 fumbles a pick and the loss of CJ and a missed FG before the half beat us. I dont like to blame coaches but im just not confident in this group of coaches under Munchak. Munch im still on the fence about but this is prob the best chance to add some coordinators or some coaches with credibility. I know you dont win on credibility but Norv Turner is a good coordinator i wouldnt mind him as one. Wade Phillips went back to a coordinator and hes done very well in Houston. You have guys out there in the college and Pro levels that can prob come in an make a difference in Kelly Gruden Turner and Andy Reid and im sure theres others. I dont care what happens i really dont i just want to do what gives us the best chance to win 2 out of the last 3 seasons our season pretty much ends in Novemeber its terrible and a horrible feeling. I want to root for the Titans in January not root for 11 teams to beat the Patriots who ever gets the Pats in the playoffs. If Grey and company are gonna turn it around soon then fine but this year was a big step back we took 3 or 4 steps back after going 9-7 when i think this Titans team was better than last years


Yeah the fact that we were competitive as we were vs the Chargers was incredible. If not for the offense stalling and having to settle for FG attempts, who knows what happens in that game. But as bad as our O was, I had no confidence in us winning going in to the game. At that point I was just looking at it as a chance for VY to mature and get some playoff experience.

My post wasn't trying to support Munchak, just Fisher, but as far as Munchak goes, I don't know.

I really like him, but when it comes to facing elite coaches, he can't seem to keep up. I don't necessarily blame that on him..he went straight from O-line coach to HC, and has only had 1 full off-season, I'm sure it's not been easy on him. I don't know if he can look back on this season, realize what it takes to compete with the elite coaches in the game or not. I think his record vs non-playoff teams is solid, but his record vs playoff teams is ugly, if I'm remembering correctly. I love his eye for talent in the draft, but past that, not much positive on his resume.

I guess we'll see what Bud Adams thinks this off-season. I'm not going to riot like I'm sure some people will here if he decides to give Munch 1 more season, but I'm certainly going to be skeptical. I feel that's what Bud will do, though. Give the Munch/Locker experiment a final year.
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Titans fan 617


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanLegend wrote:
Titans fan 617 wrote:
KingTitan wrote:
TitanLegend wrote:

People, and this season is a prime example with the firing of Chris Palmer, like to blame coaches for players lack of execution. People do just that when talking about Fisher's "failures" in the playoffs. We had chances to win almost all of our playoff games(07 Chargers is the only game I feel we stood no chance), but didn't because of lack of execution. Not because failures from our coaches.


Well Said....


That Chargers game we played them very tough and the team was put in a bad spot losing one of our best WRs in practice that week in Roydell Williams and losing one of VYs best targets no matter how many people hated him in Bo Scaife. 08 was not Fishers fault 3 fumbles a pick and the loss of CJ and a missed FG before the half beat us. I dont like to blame coaches but im just not confident in this group of coaches under Munchak. Munch im still on the fence about but this is prob the best chance to add some coordinators or some coaches with credibility. I know you dont win on credibility but Norv Turner is a good coordinator i wouldnt mind him as one. Wade Phillips went back to a coordinator and hes done very well in Houston. You have guys out there in the college and Pro levels that can prob come in an make a difference in Kelly Gruden Turner and Andy Reid and im sure theres others. I dont care what happens i really dont i just want to do what gives us the best chance to win 2 out of the last 3 seasons our season pretty much ends in Novemeber its terrible and a horrible feeling. I want to root for the Titans in January not root for 11 teams to beat the Patriots who ever gets the Pats in the playoffs. If Grey and company are gonna turn it around soon then fine but this year was a big step back we took 3 or 4 steps back after going 9-7 when i think this Titans team was better than last years


Yeah the fact that we were competitive as we were vs the Chargers was incredible. If not for the offense stalling and having to settle for FG attempts, who knows what happens in that game. But as bad as our O was, I had no confidence in us winning going in to the game. At that point I was just looking at it as a chance for VY to mature and get some playoff experience.

My post wasn't trying to support Munchak, just Fisher, but as far as Munchak goes, I don't know.

I really like him, but when it comes to facing elite coaches, he can't seem to keep up. I don't necessarily blame that on him..he went straight from O-line coach to HC, and has only had 1 full off-season, I'm sure it's not been easy on him. I don't know if he can look back on this season, realize what it takes to compete with the elite coaches in the game or not. I think his record vs non-playoff teams is solid, but his record vs playoff teams is ugly, if I'm remembering correctly. I love his eye for talent in the draft, but past that, not much positive on his resume.

I guess we'll see what Bud Adams thinks this off-season. I'm not going to riot like I'm sure some people will here if he decides to give Munch 1 more season, but I'm certainly going to be skeptical. I feel that's what Bud will do, though. Give the Munch/Locker experiment a final year.


Thats my feeling on Locker that next year is the year that can make or break him becoming a Franchise QB. I can live with Munch as the guy i just want better Coordinators i feel like our play calling is just a tad behind the 8 ball. Im sick of seeing Kendall Wright screens thats all they do when its what ever down and long. I want to see him stretch the field i think its been 2 or 3 times all year he had a pass where he went deep. This guy has the potential to be a homerun hitter we need to put him in situations to do that. Its just my opinion and just as i thought Greys success latley has been fools gold he shines bright vs crappy teams then Brady Rivers Schaub and Rodgers torch us. Something has to change
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dionysus wrote:
ttitansfan4life wrote:

Where would Te'o play? Brown would slide inside to ILB and I'm not sure that would work in a 3-4 because we'd need a thumper which he isn't exactly that. McCarthy would be the other ILB. Ayers would remain where he is but might need to add some weight. Wimbley would become the other OLB. Casey either slides outside to DE or stays at the nose and IMO Morgan would make a very good 3-4 DE. We'd lack a true nose because Casey and Morgan should be the DE's. Martin played nose in college in a 3-4 but I'm not sure if he'd be able to do it in the NFL. We have most of the pieces IMO. All I'd say we lack is a NT and depth mainly. Star or Jenkins would fit perfect.


It's real simple. On the starting 3-man front, your DEs would be Wimbley and Morgan with Casey at NT. Ayers and Brown would still be your OLBs like they are now, and McCarthy and Te'o would be your ILBs. On passing downs, McCarthy would go out, Ayers would line up at DE in the place of Morgan in a 4-man front with Wimbley, Klug and Marks/Martin. Brown would drop into coverage with Te'o. See how it all works out in the wash?


Doesn't work like that. Wimbley a 3-4 DE? Yeah right. If he gained 50 lbs of solid muscle. As explained before Wimbley would have to be the other OLB and Brown would be pushed inside. All of our DTs are a little small for NT, but Casey and Martin may be able to pull it off until we find a true NT. McCarthy and Brown at ILB may or may not be iffy.

It's a pass first league nowadays anyway we're better off with the nickel as our base defense. My favorite defense is the 3-3-5 or a 4-2 if Ayers is the DE.

McCarthy is horrendous is pass coverage by the way.

I wouldn't be opposed to Teo.. but I think we're better off in the 4-3.

The last two years I have made strong arguments to switch to a 3-4, but with the young talent we've finally found we're better off where we are.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we still had Jeff Fisher we'd have a 47 year old strong safety and 35 year old linebacking corp and we'd be 8-8.

Pass.
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TitanLegend


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
If we still had Jeff Fisher we'd have a 47 year old strong safety and 35 year old linebacking corp and we'd be 8-8.

Pass.


Yeah. Not like he's taking a team that was 2-14 and could potentially have them at 8-7-1.

When he built the team he wanted, we went 56-24, with a 7-9 year bringing it down a bit, but even with that, still averaged 11 wins per year.

Watch him do the exact same in St Louis.
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