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Observations from the Colts Game
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Jrugges


Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
WillParks wrote:
Yes and no. They deserve credit for working with players that aren't that great. However, they aren't doing the best job of getting the most out of them at certain times (see Linehan's conservative 4th quarter play calling). Someone made a good point about calling sweeps late in the game. Our o-line can pass protect pretty well but they aren't very good run blockers. Why not just work the short passing game and take any wide-open shots that may come up. The colts aren't exactly a defensive powerhouse.

By the way, did anyone notice that Pat Lee got a fair number of snaps today and didn't play too badly? Lets hope he can make some positive contributions down the stretch.

Conservative play calling gets criticized when it doesn't work, but the same is true with aggressive play calling. Had Stafford thrown an INT, it would have been "WHY ARE YOU RISKING THAT HERE?!".

A decision should NOT solely be graded on the outcome, but on the reasoning behind it in the first place.


Except this has happened 3 weeks in a row now. So the fans actually have a reason to question.

The definition of insanity.

Players failed to execute three weeks in a row, yet fans are still placing blame on the coaches. I think that says quite a bit.


Lions have lost in the last three weeks by less than a total of 7 points I think. Players/team good enough. Coaches keep making us lose. Hanson missed a game winner after two straight runs up the middle causing us to lose 2 yards, then coaches send him out on 3rd down instead of 4th.

What kind of play calling is that? If you going to kick might as well went right away when your two yards closer. Should of went for a TD pass since we know our run blocking is terrible(or should know) but instead they tried to run up the middle, got pushed back two yards, and Hanson missed the kick. We were able to pass pretty well on Houston and they abdonded it. Might have missed the FG anyways or not made the FG but if you look at the kick Hanson missed in the Houston game, two yards might have been a difference.

It's little key situations like this the staff keeps putting our players in.

If thats what you truely believe TL, players aren't executing then it's prolly time for a new GM or someting either way. Most of these guys aren't rookies or 1 year players outside the secondary. They should be in the swing of things by now. I can't blame the secondary so much this year, plagued with continueous injurys gives no one outside of Houston constant playing time. An most of our DB's are new to the team so yeah it takes a "little" bit of time playing in the defense to feel comfortable imo.

It'd more interesting to see what your thoughts about the staff is instead of defending them, what they could be doing better, what they do well enough. etc. Pushing blame on the players isn't right imo because we've been in EVERY game almost.
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
WillParks wrote:
Yes and no. They deserve credit for working with players that aren't that great. However, they aren't doing the best job of getting the most out of them at certain times (see Linehan's conservative 4th quarter play calling). Someone made a good point about calling sweeps late in the game. Our o-line can pass protect pretty well but they aren't very good run blockers. Why not just work the short passing game and take any wide-open shots that may come up. The colts aren't exactly a defensive powerhouse.

By the way, did anyone notice that Pat Lee got a fair number of snaps today and didn't play too badly? Lets hope he can make some positive contributions down the stretch.

Conservative play calling gets criticized when it doesn't work, but the same is true with aggressive play calling. Had Stafford thrown an INT, it would have been "WHY ARE YOU RISKING THAT HERE?!".

A decision should NOT solely be graded on the outcome, but on the reasoning behind it in the first place.


Except this has happened 3 weeks in a row now. So the fans actually have a reason to question.

The definition of insanity.

Players failed to execute three weeks in a row, yet fans are still placing blame on the coaches. I think that says quite a bit.


The coaches also failed to change their philosophy in these three weeks. Maybe that's why the players failed...

Once again, the definition of insanity.
How would they know if the philosophy is bad if the players havent executed it yet? How do you know?


Maybe it's not within their talent level to have executed?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyguy1609 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
You know what? Let's get Andy Reid! That guy is DA BEST EVA!!!


andy reid drafts worse then we do... let reid go to San Diego. Lets get Norv for O-Coord
You know I was being sarcastic right?
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
GeneralTso wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
WillParks wrote:
Yes and no. They deserve credit for working with players that aren't that great. However, they aren't doing the best job of getting the most out of them at certain times (see Linehan's conservative 4th quarter play calling). Someone made a good point about calling sweeps late in the game. Our o-line can pass protect pretty well but they aren't very good run blockers. Why not just work the short passing game and take any wide-open shots that may come up. The colts aren't exactly a defensive powerhouse.

By the way, did anyone notice that Pat Lee got a fair number of snaps today and didn't play too badly? Lets hope he can make some positive contributions down the stretch.

Conservative play calling gets criticized when it doesn't work, but the same is true with aggressive play calling. Had Stafford thrown an INT, it would have been "WHY ARE YOU RISKING THAT HERE?!".

A decision should NOT solely be graded on the outcome, but on the reasoning behind it in the first place.


Except this has happened 3 weeks in a row now. So the fans actually have a reason to question.

The definition of insanity.

Players failed to execute three weeks in a row, yet fans are still placing blame on the coaches. I think that says quite a bit.


The coaches also failed to change their philosophy in these three weeks. Maybe that's why the players failed...

Once again, the definition of insanity.
How would they know if the philosophy is bad if the players havent executed it yet? How do you know?


Maybe it's not within their talent level to have executed?
So wouldnt that be in the players for not being good?
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GeneralTso


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you know... the GM can get better players

or maybe the coaches can develop a scheme that fits the players.
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Yeah, [Mike] Wallace would be like 4th fastest on the Raiders.
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flyguy1609


Joined: 22 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
flyguy1609 wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
You know what? Let's get Andy Reid! That guy is DA BEST EVA!!!


andy reid drafts worse then we do... let reid go to San Diego. Lets get Norv for O-Coord
You know I was being sarcastic right?


yeah. i was being half serious Norv is a great o-coord not so good head coach. our play calling has been aweful in the 1st haf for most of the yr, if we do let linehan go, i would take Norv to be our oc
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WillParks


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am hoping the Browns let Pat Shurmur go. He was a really good OC and is getting the most out of Weeden, Richardson and Gordon, three rookie starters.
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Big Cat


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralTso wrote:
Or you know... the GM can get better players

or maybe the coaches can develop a scheme that fits the players.


Maybe just develop a scheme, period.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
What kind of play calling is that? If you going to kick might as well went right away when your two yards closer.

Then, if Hanson misses a 46 yard FG, there would be rampant criticism about how he should have clearly ran a few times (at least) to make it a 40ish yard FG. There would be no way to know that they'd lose yards on those runs, so trying to inch the ball closer is a fine decision.

Jrugges wrote:
It'd more interesting to see what your thoughts about the staff is instead of defending them, what they could be doing better, what they do well enough. etc. Pushing blame on the players isn't right imo because we've been in EVERY game almost.

Why are the coaches to blame that we lost, but the players get credit because we've been competitive? Why couldn't someone argue the opposite: that the players' lack of execution is the reason we're losing, but the coaches' ability is the reason we're even close?

That's the line of thinking that I have a problem with: it's just too... convenient. Here's what we know: there have been too many dropped passes and mistakes. To blame Schwartz, or Linehan, or Cunningham, when we have proof of the above, is off-base, in my opinion.
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Jrugges


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="TL-TwoWinsAway"]
Jrugges wrote:
What kind of play calling is that? If you going to kick might as well went right away when your two yards closer.

Then, if Hanson misses a 46 yard FG, there would be rampant criticism about how he should have clearly ran a few times (at least) to make it a 40ish yard FG. There would be no way to know that they'd lose yards on those runs, so trying to inch the ball closer is a fine decision.


See, then why didn't they just run or pass on third down then to continue to 'try' and get yardage instead of wasting two downs already. They didn't commit either way in that situation they were reactionary to what the other team is doing.

Schwartz also cost us the Houston came with the flag.

An if I have to I can continue to keep going but I don't have them fresh in my mind right now. I agree with what your saying also, it's easy to blame the coaches for what might be player failures, but last game the offense was good enough imo to win the game. An I've never thought the defense will tough out games for us so... Idk. I blame coaching, being on the attack is our defense imo. 3rd and 5 and you NEED a 1st and you don't put it into your best player(the QB) hands?!?!? IDK. Bugs me.

An honestly, the defense is what it is because of who we have and injurys. Did we expecpt a top 15 defense? Anyone? I don't even see how they much improved this offseason once Bentley went down with injury. An he looked like a mariginal upgrade, he needed to get use to the physical aspect of these games. But now he's gone and they didn't bring any upgrades anywhere else. Offense didn't upgrade with resources put into it.

To me thats coaching, how we aren't better or more efficient is beyond me. I'm not totally blaming Schwartz, but like Stafford said the interview with Terry/Mike today. Coaches call the plays the last two minutes of games. So I have to say it's Schwartz/Linehan's fault for not playing to our strengths. (Stafford/Calvin.) I can live with trying to fight with our best weapons. It's tough when we resort to what the other team WANTS us to do(Run).

Gunther isn't the problem to me. Schwartz/Linehan, or possible just Linehan needs to go. Saddly if Schwartz goes then all go imo.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jrugges wrote:
See, then why didn't they just run or pass on third down then to continue to 'try' and get yardage instead of wasting two downs already. They didn't commit either way in that situation they were reactionary to what the other team is doing.

Because, if you fumble the snap, you have another opportunity. When it comes to winning the game in OT, you save that down.
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House of Suhs


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IDOG_det wrote:
How would they know if the philosophy is bad if the players havent executed it yet? How do you know?


You don't keep trying to put a square peg through a round hole. It's never going to work. Have you ever thought that the reason why the players haven't executed the coaches' philosophy is because the the players simply don't fit the coaches' philosophy? It is the coach's responsibility to create a scheme that fits the personnel that is given to him, as a coach your game-plan should be catering to your player's strengths, not their weaknesses. The philosophy is bad BECAUSE the players haven't executed it, and will probably never execute it; if the players could execute it, it wouldn't be a bad philosophy would it?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

House of Suhs wrote:
IDOG_det wrote:
How would they know if the philosophy is bad if the players havent executed it yet? How do you know?


You don't keep trying to put a square peg through a round hole. It's never going to work. Have you ever thought that the reason why the players haven't executed the coaches' philosophy is because the the players simply don't fit the coaches' philosophy? It is the coach's responsibility to create a scheme that fits the personnel that is given to him, as a coach your game-plan should be catering to your player's strengths, not their weaknesses. The philosophy is bad BECAUSE the players haven't executed it, and will probably never execute it; if the players could execute it, it wouldn't be a bad philosophy would it?

It's not as easy as "square peg/round hole". Expecting one yard on a 3rd and inches is something every running game should be capable of. Not constantly dropping passes is execution, not pegs and holes.

And I completely disagree with your overall point: if the players couldn't execute the coaches' philosophy, we wouldn't be competitive on a weekly basis. We wouldn't be bad calls and a few missed opportunities away from having a great record. We would be terrible. We aren't.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
We would be terrible. We aren't.


We certainly have been at times. That last game winning drive for the Colts our defense was non existent. Like a hot knife through butter.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
We would be terrible. We aren't.


We certainly have been at times. That last game winning drive for the Colts our defense was non existent. Like a hot knife through butter.

Absolutely. There will always be times when our team will struggle, or the opposing team will excel. We have absolutely looked bad at times. At the same time, we have nearly won most of the games this year. I'm not willing to call the team 'terrible' at this point.
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