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I Am Rodgers


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:22 am    Post subject: Moving Forward After Belcher - Football Specific Reply with quote

@JayGlazer wrote:
Scary situation in KC right now as a player and another person have been shot at the Chiefs facility.


Wow. I hope there are no fatalities.

[Edited by Moderator] This is to separate general discussion about the event, and how this affects the team going forward.
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Romeo did handle the situation very well, which worries me into thinking that he won't be fired after this season is over. I feel bad for saying that, as if I'm trying to kick the guy while he is down, but for the longterm sake of this team, Romeo has to go. Pioli as well. Make no mistake, I am proud of our team for coming together and winning like they did.

Quite honestly, I just don't how to feel about it. A player on our team murders his girlfriend and kills himself, leaving behind a 3 month old baby, and I just wouldn't call it inspired football. I wouldn't want to be inspired by those events. I think our team just played a pretty good despite the tough circumstances. They played great in adversity. Our opponent wasn't that tough either, which helped.

All of the fan support today was great as well. But I just wonder, do they go back next week to wearing black and holding up Fire Pioli signs? It's just hard for me to picture, and I think that this event either increased the job security of Pioli and Crennel or just is making me realize how secure their jobs already were.

I think that Crennel is a great person, but he is not a good head coach. His W/L record both before getting hired, and now after is an indication of that. At least with Herm, our expectations weren't high to begin with. This season has been a disaster, and for Belcher to murder his girlfriend and take his own life to go along with that, it's just awful. And I can just see Clark Hunt watching this team coming together like they did and telling himself that Crennel and Pioli need to return next year. Because how do you fire a coach or GM after they had to witness one of their players committing suicide?
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonwayne wrote:
Yes, Romeo did handle the situation very well, which worries me into thinking that he won't be fired after this season is over. I feel bad for saying that, as if I'm trying to kick the guy while he is down, but for the longterm sake of this team, Romeo has to go. Pioli as well. Make no mistake, I am proud of our team for coming together and winning like they did.

Quite honestly, I just don't how to feel about it. A player on our team murders his girlfriend and kills himself, leaving behind a 3 month old baby, and I just wouldn't call it inspired football. I wouldn't want to be inspired by those events. I think our team just played a pretty good despite the tough circumstances. They played great in adversity. Our opponent wasn't that tough either, which helped.

All of the fan support today was great as well. But I just wonder, do they go back next week to wearing black and holding up Fire Pioli signs? It's just hard for me to picture, and I think that this event either increased the job security of Pioli and Crennel or just is making me realize how secure their jobs already were.

I think that Crennel is a great person, but he is not a good head coach. His W/L record both before getting hired, and now after is an indication of that. At least with Herm, our expectations weren't high to begin with. This season has been a disaster, and for Belcher to murder his girlfriend and take his own life to go along with that, it's just awful. And I can just see Clark Hunt watching this team coming together like they did and telling himself that Crennel and Pioli need to return next year. Because how do you fire a coach or GM after they had to witness one of their players committing suicide?


sw,
That is exactly what I have been thinking, but just haven't had the guts to say it. A tragic event to be sure - how do we move on as an organization? Will we? How does Clark Hunt put all of this in perspective?

Like you, I hope Hunt realizes that we need to move on and that requires a fresh start from the front office down.

Edit : One of the reasons I didn't post much after this happened was because it was such a glaring case of what we often miss from our perspective - the human side. I struggled with the idea that I have been soo hard on a person (Pioli) that just witnessed something that will live with him for the rest of his life. And that goes for Crennel as well. As you said, they are good human beings and don't deserve to have that etched into their brains. But we just need a new start, a new direction. I hope Hunt doesn't lose sight of that.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
simonwayne wrote:
Yes, Romeo did handle the situation very well, which worries me into thinking that he won't be fired after this season is over. I feel bad for saying that, as if I'm trying to kick the guy while he is down, but for the longterm sake of this team, Romeo has to go. Pioli as well. Make no mistake, I am proud of our team for coming together and winning like they did.

Quite honestly, I just don't how to feel about it. A player on our team murders his girlfriend and kills himself, leaving behind a 3 month old baby, and I just wouldn't call it inspired football. I wouldn't want to be inspired by those events. I think our team just played a pretty good despite the tough circumstances. They played great in adversity. Our opponent wasn't that tough either, which helped.

All of the fan support today was great as well. But I just wonder, do they go back next week to wearing black and holding up Fire Pioli signs? It's just hard for me to picture, and I think that this event either increased the job security of Pioli and Crennel or just is making me realize how secure their jobs already were.

I think that Crennel is a great person, but he is not a good head coach. His W/L record both before getting hired, and now after is an indication of that. At least with Herm, our expectations weren't high to begin with. This season has been a disaster, and for Belcher to murder his girlfriend and take his own life to go along with that, it's just awful. And I can just see Clark Hunt watching this team coming together like they did and telling himself that Crennel and Pioli need to return next year. Because how do you fire a coach or GM after they had to witness one of their players committing suicide?


sw,
That is exactly what I have been thinking, but just haven't had the guts to say it. A tragic event to be sure - how do we move on as an organization? Will we? How does Clark Hunt put all of this in perspective?

Like you, I hope Hunt realizes that we need to move on and that requires a fresh start from the front office down.

Edit : One of the reasons I didn't post much after this happened was because it was such a glaring case of what we often miss from our perspective - the human side. I struggled with the idea that I have been soo hard on a person (Pioli) that just witnessed something that will live with him for the rest of his life. And that goes for Crennel as well. As you said, they are good human beings and don't deserve to have that etched into their brains. But we just need a new start, a new direction. I hope Hunt doesn't lose sight of that.


Easiest way to do it is to have both Pioli and Crennel say they are resigning after the events and are stepping away from football for a while.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally understand where y'all are coming from wondering how this effects the future of this team. I've thought about it too. I just haven't thought it through enough yet to comment. We'll see how the next few weeks go I suppose. I think that might answer some of these questions better. It's not something that has to be solved right now.
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Rumless


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
Easiest way to do it is to have both Pioli and Crennel say they are resigning after the events and are stepping away from football for a while.

Hue hue hue.

How about a separate thread dedicated to the team's response to this? I would hate to see this thread turned into another Pioli/Crennel discussion. Shouldn't be hard from a moderator's standpoint, you can split one thread into two and organize posts.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we've all been so focused on the QB next year and drafting one. I still fully believe we need to draft one. I've viewed our TC 2013 QB situation prior to yesterday as thus:

Draft Choice
???
Stanzi
Tanney

After Quinn's play yesterday and even more so his leadership, and post game comments.. I believe he should be that veteran presence to go along with the 3 young guys. He's earned my confidence.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arrowhead86 wrote:
So we've all been so focused on the QB next year and drafting one. I still fully believe we need to draft one. I've viewed our TC 2013 QB situation prior to yesterday as thus:

Draft Choice
???
Stanzi
Tanney

After Quinn's play yesterday and even more so his leadership, and post game comments.. I believe he should be that veteran presence to go along with the 3 young guys. He's earned my confidence.


AR86,
I think we need to see how the rest of the season plays out before annointing Quinn as the veteran presence at the position. I just don't want our organization to get caught up in the emotional side of what happened and lose sight of what has been clearly evident this entire season - we need a housecleaning.


Overall, hopefully we will have a new front office and coaching staff to evaluate all of the positions on the roster.
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nicfre2011


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.


Not too mention they had like 2-3 injuries as well. I really want to see how he does vs Cleveland. Cleveland has an up and coming young defense with good corner backs.
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Da_Zou13


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.


Not too mention they had like 2-3 injuries as well. I really want to see how he does vs Cleveland. Cleveland has an up and coming young defense with good corner backs.


If he can put up consistent numbers against Cleveland and the rest of the year, basically not turn it over, I would be OK with him as the starter going into next year. If we win a game or two more we could be looking at a top 5 pick rather than first overall, and I dont think there is a QB worth that pick. We could copy Cinncy, and take a talented player first, and then a QB at the top of the 2nd. We have the tools/players in place for a QB to succeed, so we would just have to scout them all and figure out which will be available in the second. For example, Aaron Murray or EJ Manuel. Hopefully we wold still be in position to take Manti Teo in the first.
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Mikek163


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Da_Zou13 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.


Not too mention they had like 2-3 injuries as well. I really want to see how he does vs Cleveland. Cleveland has an up and coming young defense with good corner backs.


If he can put up consistent numbers against Cleveland and the rest of the year, basically not turn it over, I would be OK with him as the starter going into next year. If we win a game or two more we could be looking at a top 5 pick rather than first overall, and I dont think there is a QB worth that pick. We could copy Cinncy, and take a talented player first, and then a QB at the top of the 2nd. We have the tools/players in place for a QB to succeed, so we would just have to scout them all and figure out which will be available in the second. For example, Aaron Murray or EJ Manuel. Hopefully we wold still be in position to take Manti Teo in the first.


The thing is I could see him putting up decent numbers for the rest of the year because the teams we play against. But if we fire Pioli he's as good as gone anyways.
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicfre2011 wrote:
Arrowhead86 wrote:
So we've all been so focused on the QB next year and drafting one. I still fully believe we need to draft one. I've viewed our TC 2013 QB situation prior to yesterday as thus:

Draft Choice
???
Stanzi
Tanney

After Quinn's play yesterday and even more so his leadership, and post game comments.. I believe he should be that veteran presence to go along with the 3 young guys. He's earned my confidence.


AR86,
I think we need to see how the rest of the season plays out before annointing Quinn as the veteran presence at the position. I just don't want our organization to get caught up in the emotional side of what happened and lose sight of what has been clearly evident this entire season - we need a housecleaning.


Overall, hopefully we will have a new front office and coaching staff to evaluate all of the positions on the roster.



nicfre2011 wrote:
As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.


I agree on the house cleaning aspects - I just no longer see Quinn as needing cleaning. To me he provided yesterday exactly what he will be asked to do for the young position group - veteran leadership. I don't think he is a great player and his performance on the field while solid (and improved over anything Cassel has displayed - I mean he made some strong second level throws yesterday) is not what's swayed. His post game presence did. His calm did. His leadership did.

Ideally he would not even see the field next year. I just feel I trust him now. Does that make sense? (not asking that harshly - I'm seriously asking)
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Arrowhead86


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Da_Zou13 wrote:
Mikek163 wrote:
nicfre2011 wrote:
As far as Quinn's play on the field (and our offense for that matter), I think we need to honestly realize we played a defense that is pretty down-and-out right now, so IMO to use this as a litmus test would be a mistake.


Not too mention they had like 2-3 injuries as well. I really want to see how he does vs Cleveland. Cleveland has an up and coming young defense with good corner backs.


If he can put up consistent numbers against Cleveland and the rest of the year, basically not turn it over, I would be OK with him as the starter going into next year. If we win a game or two more we could be looking at a top 5 pick rather than first overall, and I dont think there is a QB worth that pick. We could copy Cinncy, and take a talented player first, and then a QB at the top of the 2nd. We have the tools/players in place for a QB to succeed, so we would just have to scout them all and figure out which will be available in the second. For example, Aaron Murray or EJ Manuel. Hopefully we wold still be in position to take Manti Teo in the first.


No, for me anyway no. Not a starter. He's not good enough to lead a team to a SB in my view. He is good enough to stand behind the guy that does and support him.
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Da_Zou13


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt his ability to lead us to a SB too, but thats common in a lot of QBs. I think Quinn could be just good enough throw the deep routes and keep the Def honest, but we would still rely ehavily on the run game. All of this is irrelevant if we get a new HC, OC, GM.
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