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What's the most salty item?
New England Waaaaah Chowder
95%
 95%  [ 19 ]
Pittsburgh Saltine Crackers
5%
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San Diego Sour Dough
0%
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Total Votes : 20

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bmore4life815


Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 3429
Location: Climbing up M&T
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? No.
Mobility? No.
Leadership? No.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? No.
Ability to manage games? No.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.

I'd say he knows something about managing games and avoiding many costly errors if he's 31 games above .500 for his career. He certainly needs to play better on the road, and I agree that his pocket presence is still a concern, but I'm struggling to name more than 10 better QB's in this league right now.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23426
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? Yes.
Mobility? Enough.
Leadership? Yes.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? Yes.
Ability to manage games? Enough.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.


FIFY.

You're not giving Flacco enough credit whatsoever.


Leadership? Don't kid yourself, he's not a leader of this team. Ray Rice, Boldin, Ray Lewis, Reed, Sizzle. Those are leaders. Flacco is not that, no matter how much the media wants to make you believe otherwise.

Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and turnovers? Joe is known to make stupid mistakes and cause turnovers. Just last night with the strip sack, he sat in the pocket for far too long, got sacked and lost the football. What about his INT last night? Was that not stupid? How about 2 years ago at home with the Polamalu strip sack?

Manage games: Haven't you been someone to say that Flacco and the offense as a whole sucks when they are asked to manage the game? Flacco is probably the worst game manager in the league, especially when we have the lead.

Accuracy? Hardly. Completing 57.6% of his passes last year and this year 59.2% (career low and 2nd career low, respectively) is hardly being "accurate", considering almost all Top-10 QB's have a comp.% around the mid to upper 60% range.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23426
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? No.
Mobility? No.
Leadership? No.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? No.
Ability to manage games? No.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.

I'd say he knows something about managing games and avoiding many costly errors if he's 31 games above .500 for his career. He certainly needs to play better on the road, and I agree that his pocket presence is still a concern, but I'm struggling to name more than 10 better QB's in this league right now.


Well let me help you Cool

Brady
Manning
Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Ryan
Schaub
Cutler
Roethlisberger

Those guys are all clearly above Flacco. Then the next level guys such as RGIII, Dalton, Romo, Vick, etc. all have arguments as to why they are on or above Flacco's level.
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DontTazeMeBro


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 25914
Location: 321
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with most of those but Matt Ryan is particularly hilarious.
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1/10. Not a fan[of C.J. Mosley]. Just another future failed Alabama product.
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DontTazeMeBro


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 25914
Location: 321
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.


You know what else is funny. We are the biggest frauds in the league but every team that beats us is proven legit by doing so. Confused
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SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
1/10. Not a fan[of C.J. Mosley]. Just another future failed Alabama product.
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NJ Raven


Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 2419
Location: NewJersey
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? No.
Mobility? No.
Leadership? No.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? No.
Ability to manage games? No.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.

I'd say he knows something about managing games and avoiding many costly errors if he's 31 games above .500 for his career. He certainly needs to play better on the road, and I agree that his pocket presence is still a concern, but I'm struggling to name more than 10 better QB's in this league right now.


Well let me help you Cool

Brady
Manning
Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Ryan
Schaub
Cutler
Roethlisberger

Those guys are all clearly above Flacco. Then the next level guys such as RGIII, Dalton, Romo, Vick, etc. all have arguments as to why they are on or above Flacco's level.


I'll only take the Mannings, Brady, Rodgers, Ben & Cutler definitively over Flacco. Everyone else I don't see us being more successful with with the current offensive philosphy. (yes, even Brees)
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22613
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

Leadership? Don't kid yourself, he's not a leader of this team. Ray Rice, Boldin, Ray Lewis, Reed, Sizzle. Those are leaders. Flacco is not that, no matter how much the media wants to make you believe otherwise.


What makes you think Ray Rice is more of a leader on this team than Joe? Because he's more outspoken? Aside from Boldin, the rest of your "leaders" are all on the defensive side of the ball. Flacco is most definitely a leader on the offensive side -- he just isn't as outspoken as others.

Quote:
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and turnovers? Joe is known to make stupid mistakes and cause turnovers. Just last night with the strip sack, he sat in the pocket for far too long, got sacked and lost the football. What about his INT last night? Was that not stupid? How about 2 years ago at home with the Polamalu strip sack?


The fact that you have to pinpoint times where he's turning the ball over at critical moments shows everything. Of course he makes turnovers, all QBs do. However, in crucial situations, he typically does not.

Quote:
Manage games: Haven't you been someone to say that Flacco and the offense as a whole sucks when they are asked to manage the game? Flacco is probably the worst game manager in the league, especially when we have the lead.


He's most certainly not his best when he's managing, but he's shown he's at least capable of doing so. He's much better when he needs to fling it around for sure, but you're directly stating that he "can't" and not "isn't his strong suit".

Quote:
Accuracy? Hardly. Completing 57.6% of his passes last year and this year 59.2% (career low and 2nd career low, respectively) is hardly being "accurate", considering almost all Top-10 QB's have a comp.% around the mid to upper 60% range.


Accuracy has a lot more to it than merely completion percentage. Of course QBs who take a good bit of shots downfield (if you'd recall, the Ravens are among the teams with the most "explosive" plays in the league) are going to have a lower completion percentage. They are less likely to be completed. However, overall, Joe is very much accurate with the ball. At the absolute worst he's average, and I'd argue he's above all things considered.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22613
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
bmore4life815 wrote:
I'm not seeing why some of you are fixated on Flacco's numbers. He may never throw for 4,500 yards and 30 TD's in a season, or crack the Pro Bowl, but he's 58-37 for his career (including the postseason) and has finished with more than 15 turnovers just once in his five years. He's clearly a 10-15 QB, and is a proven winner. So, how is that not a franchise QB?

I've been very hard on him in the past, but you're going to get more good than bad with him. I think all of us need to realize that.


Is Alex Smith a franchise QB? He doesn't turn the ball over and is a proven winner under Jim Harbaugh.

Or how about Tim Tebow? He doesn't really turn the ball over, is clutch, a proven winner, but do you consider him a franchise QB?

Fact is, stats do matter, but to a certain extent. If a QB can't be counted on to show up every week with his A game, he's not a franchise QB unless he PROVES he can win a Superbowl, which Joe has not. Although Joe showed he could have gotten us there, he also played poorly the game before that, and to contrast another inconsistent QB (Eli Manning), he played well throughout the entire playoffs and through the Superbowl and won it for his team.

This isn't to say that Flacco can't be a Franchise QB, it's just that as of right now; he's not.

The problem here is that most knowledgeable football observers don't regard Smith as a top 10-12 QB, and Tebow is obviously nowhere close to that.


And how can anyone honestly say that Flacco is a top-10 QB when he continuously has these kinds of outings? What characteristic makes him a top-10 QB?

Accuracy? No.
Mobility? No.
Leadership? No.
Pocket Awareness and movement? No.
Ability to avoid stupid mistakes and prevent turnovers? No.
Ability to manage games? No.
Ability to engineer comebacks after playing horrible for 3 quarters? Sure.
Arm Strength? Yes.

So if being able to lead comebacks and having a strong arm is all that it takes to be a top-10 QB, the qualifications are flawed.

I'd say he knows something about managing games and avoiding many costly errors if he's 31 games above .500 for his career. He certainly needs to play better on the road, and I agree that his pocket presence is still a concern, but I'm struggling to name more than 10 better QB's in this league right now.


Well let me help you Cool

Brady
Manning
Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Ryan
Schaub
Cutler
Roethlisberger

Those guys are all clearly above Flacco. Then the next level guys such as RGIII, Dalton, Romo, Vick, etc. all have arguments as to why they are on or above Flacco's level.


Cutler, Schaub and Ryan are on the same tier as Flacco. Though I'd personally add Romo in there.

RG3 -- you need to give him a year before declaring anything. Just remember last year we were saying how Cam was a top 10 QB as well and then teams got film on him.

Dalton -- I like the kid, but no. He doesn't play well against good defenses, at least not well enough to be considered a top 12 QB.

Vick? Give me a freakin' break. The ONLY argument he has is 2010 and even that was about as overrated of a season as they come. Vick isn't even a top 15 QB in the league.
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StRawz11


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 3714
Location: Not in Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.


You know what else is funny. We are the biggest frauds in the league but every team that beats us is proven legit by doing so. Confused


The Ravens definitely aren't frauds, they just never play to the fullest of their ability. This team should be one of the favorites for the Super Bowl but they keep serving up letdown after letdown. That's why other fans call them frauds.

The losses are highlighted and the wins are barely mentioned around here on this board
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7414
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah to be frauds I think that would mean that the team is playing above their talent level which definitely isn't the case. If anything they're playing a good margin below it. To me that only says that they still have a lot of room to improve and for a 9-3 team that's pretty awesome.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23426
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.


You know what else is funny. We are the biggest frauds in the league but every team that beats us is proven legit by doing so. Confused


The Ravens definitely aren't frauds, they just never play to the fullest of their ability. This team should be one of the favorites for the Super Bowl but they keep serving up letdown after letdown. That's why other fans call them frauds.

The losses are highlighted and the wins are barely mentioned around here on this board


So then what are we? I think we're frauds. You don't have to be playing above your talent level to be frauds. You can also severely underperform and luck your way to several wins and be labeled frauds.
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StRawz11


Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 3714
Location: Not in Pittsburgh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.


You know what else is funny. We are the biggest frauds in the league but every team that beats us is proven legit by doing so. Confused


The Ravens definitely aren't frauds, they just never play to the fullest of their ability. This team should be one of the favorites for the Super Bowl but they keep serving up letdown after letdown. That's why other fans call them frauds.

The losses are highlighted and the wins are barely mentioned around here on this board


So then what are we? I think we're frauds. You don't have to be playing above your talent level to be frauds. You can also severely underperform and luck your way to several wins and be labeled frauds.


I believe were an extremely talented team that loses because of a lack of focus more often than not.

The Ravens in the playoffs are a completely different team that doesnt lose focus or intensity
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BRollinDeyHatin


Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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Location: Chesapeake, VA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, long time reader because I actually do find "most" of the fan base who post here pretty knowledgeable, first time posting. When it comes to the Ravens this year I have stopped caring so much about how they win. I know they have problems, play calling, injuries, what looks like their lack of effort at times, but more often then not they have still found ways to win. Just look at the teams that have won the Superbowl in the past 5 years or so, none of them were perfect, they just got it done when they needed to. Besides that if you try to diagnose the Jekyll and Hyde that is our team you'll want to choke somebody more then actually enjoy watching them play football.
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coordinator0


Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Posts: 7414
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BRollinDeyHatin wrote:
Hey guys, long time reader because I actually do find "most" of the fan base who post here pretty knowledgeable, first time posting. When it comes to the Ravens this year I have stopped caring so much about how they win. I know they have problems, play calling, injuries, what looks like their lack of effort at times, but more often then not they have still found ways to win. Just look at the teams that have won the Superbowl in the past 5 years or so, none of them were perfect, they just got it done when they needed to. Besides that if you try to diagnose the Jekyll and Hyde that is our team you'll want to choke somebody more then actually enjoy watching them play football.


Welcome to the board!

I've kind of fallen into this mindset as well. It's still frustrating though. The fact that they have proven that can win when games are close is definitely a good thing but it would be nice to see a stretch where the whole team looks like it's rolling and not just one of the offense, defense, or special teams.
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SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 23426
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
StRawz11 wrote:
Look at what our fanbase complains about

Flacco
Cam Cameron's playcalling
Offensive line
Defensive Line
Pressure
Wide Receivers and Tight Ends
Secondary
and some John Harbaugh

You would never imagine this team is 9-3. An unimpressive 9-3 I will say. But 9-3 nonetheless.


You know what else is funny. We are the biggest frauds in the league but every team that beats us is proven legit by doing so. Confused


The Ravens definitely aren't frauds, they just never play to the fullest of their ability. This team should be one of the favorites for the Super Bowl but they keep serving up letdown after letdown. That's why other fans call them frauds.

The losses are highlighted and the wins are barely mentioned around here on this board


So then what are we? I think we're frauds. You don't have to be playing above your talent level to be frauds. You can also severely underperform and luck your way to several wins and be labeled frauds.


I believe were an extremely talented team that loses because of a lack of focus more often than not.

The Ravens in the playoffs are a completely different team that doesnt lose focus or intensity


Which comes back to coaching, leadership and preparation, and it seems that in those areas we are just lacking this year. Still, I believe we are frauds right now. Who knows what's gonna happen come playoff time.
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