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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
It was man coverage on the outside WRs and playing zone in the middle and flooding it with the two safeties.


I know. Sir Randall beat both Revis and Cromartie 1 on 1 for long touchdowns in 2010:

The Jets wouldn't have been able to isolate Moss - he would beat them. They'd have to keep at least one safety back, and thus the entire defensive scheme changes. Moss probably has 3 catches for like 25 yards, but Wes probably has a 10/135 day, Hernandez a 6/80 day, Gronk a 5/60 day, etc.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
They had those problems early in 2010.

Maybe if Moss wasn't a turd who whined about his contract, he'd still be in Foxboro and the Pats would have another Lombardi or two. But at the end of the day, he turned into the high-maintenance baby he's been for much of his career.

The only person you should blame for Randy Moss not being with the Patriots is Randy Moss for being exactly who Randy Moss has always been.


This is the yearly breakdown of the 8 year/75m contract Moss signed in 2000:

Mort breaks down Moss' deal:
Quote:

Signing bonus: $10 million ($7 million upon signing, $3 million due March 2002)

2001 salary: $500,000

2002 salary: $500,000

Option bonus, March 2003: $8 million

2003 salary: $5 million

2004 salary: $5.75 million

2005 salary: $7.25 million

2006 salary: $8.25 million

2007 salary: $8.75 million

2008 salary: $11.25 million


Moss took a salary cut from 8.75 to 1.5m to play here in 2007. The 3yr, 27m deal he signs in 08 paled in comparison to Philys 4 yr, 40m offer.

Moss contract hate is absurd. He never would have been here at all if he had no taken a crazy pay cut.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Melton, he's my no.1 FA by a fair distance, which means I'm resigned to not getting him. Smile

Byrd too, I like him as player but I don't see the Bills letting him go.

Jennings is a massive red-flag to me. Lots of different injuries this year, thats always a warning sign. He'll cost too much for the IR risk he poses.

Reed I'm undecided about, never been a fan of FAs where you're paying for a name and a resume. He's older, lost a step, injured frequently and has started making lapses in coverage. In top of that he'll be at most a 2 year player.

Re the WR situation...I'm sad to say I think Welker is gone. He's 32 next year and at some point he's going to hit a wall. Dream scenario is Bowe, but he'll price himself out of our range.
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
NinjaZX6R wrote:
It was man coverage on the outside WRs and playing zone in the middle and flooding it with the two safeties.


I know. Sir Randall beat both Revis and Cromartie 1 on 1 for long touchdowns in 2010:

The Jets wouldn't have been able to isolate Moss - he would beat them. They'd have to keep at least one safety back, and thus the entire defensive scheme changes. Moss probably has 3 catches for like 25 yards, but Wes probably has a 10/135 day, Hernandez a 6/80 day, Gronk a 5/60 day, etc.


Revis- Suffered a hamstring injury just a tat prior to Moss cutting in inside on that route and gave up the TD. Other than that, he shut him down for that game and the 2 games in 2009
Crow-Did you forget how Crow int'd 2 passes for Moss in the 2nd half, you know the half where they failed to do anything offensively and it was Brady chucking it to Moss for no apparent reason even though other targets were wide open.

Revis has always covered him by himself w.o safety help. Therefore your plan would not work in that playoff game.

You take your two outside WRs-Tate and Moss, they are taken out by Crow and Revis, that leaves 2-3 targets being covered by 6 guys (3 man pass rush like they did in that game).

Moss hasn't had an impact in this league after the 2009 season.

Like Mccurty said, You should be blaming Moss for Mossing himself out of Foxboro.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
Revis- Suffered a hamstring injury just a tat prior to Moss cutting in inside on that route and gave up the TD


Um no Moss had him right off the line. He also burned Revis, and the safety help LOL, earlier in the game:



[/quote]Crow-Did you forget how Crow int'd 2 passes for Moss in the 2nd half, you know the half where they failed to do anything offensively and it was Brady chucking it to Moss for no apparent reason even though other targets were wide open.[/quote]

Both were poor throws by Brady, espec. the tipped pass which was picked.

Quote:
Revis has always covered him by himself w.o safety help.


Laughing the picture above says otherwise, as do dozens of clips
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Revis has always covered him by himself w.o safety help.


Quote:
Laughing the picture above says otherwise, as do dozens of clips[
Congratulations then. He couldn't reel in that pass. Kinda like that pass from Brady to Moss vs the Phins on MNF. You know, the game he pouted like a baby to Bill O'Brien.

I was wrong. He did beat him inside on a go route badly but Revis still recovered. And he still didn't get any safety help. I looked at that play just now. Jets were barely lining up when Brady quick snapped it. Either looked like a cover 1 or cover 3 w. only 1 safety in the middle.


Quote:
Both were poor throws by Brady, espec. the tipped pass which was picked.


Go watch that game again. That was [inappropriate/removed] poor performance by Brady. Aaron Hernandez had around 80-90 yards in the 1st half. The Jets couldn't cover him. Yet in the 2nd half, Brady had horse blinders with Moss. Wes and Aaron rarely saw the ball. Also, on one of an int, nice play by Moss to knock the ball down...oh wait, he didn't.

Quote:
the picture above says otherwise, as do dozens of clips


Yes. "pictures" and a "dozen of clips" out of 202 snaps in 3 games vs the Jets in 2009 and 2010.

Guess Brady still needs Moss to beat the Jets. Damn those season sweeping loses to the Jets in the last two years!

And how is Moss doing with the 49ers? As I recall, you did say that the main reason why Moss wasn't catching the ball was b/c of Alex Smith and his noodle arm. Now with Colin Kaepernick in the game, one would think that a big arm QB like him (I believe he threw a 90+mph fast ball in HS) would present Moss more down the field opportunities.
He has a whopping 1 reception for 12 yards out of 3 targets in 2 games.

Your god is done in the NFL. Let it go please for the sanity of other Pats fans in this forum.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

Much of that is totally irrelevant. Add Moss to the 2010 and 2011 teams, and we win it all.

its a fact Cool
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Laughing

Much of that is totally irrelevant. Add Moss to the 2010 and 2011 teams, and we win it all.

its a fact Cool


In your delusional eyes. I think you need visine Laughing
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaZX6R wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Laughing

Much of that is totally irrelevant. Add Moss to the 2010 and 2011 teams, and we win it all.

its a fact Cool


In your delusional eyes. I think you need visine Laughing


Not delusional at all. Nobody could match up with

Moss Welker Branch Gronandez with Brady at QB.
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
NinjaZX6R wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Laughing

Much of that is totally irrelevant. Add Moss to the 2010 and 2011 teams, and we win it all.

its a fact Cool


In your delusional eyes. I think you need visine Laughing


Not delusional at all. Nobody could match up with

Moss Welker Branch Gronandez with Brady at QB.



Moss and Branch. You are so funny. Laughing
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...that is what we have been discussing this entire time. Are you sure it is my eyes which need some help? Wink
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
...that is what we have been discussing this entire time. Are you sure it is my eyes which need some help? Wink


You want two old geezers as your wide outs?

Laughing

Come on man.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion that the Pats passing offense will be top 10, most likely top 5 even without retaining Welker and signing/drafting nobody of note. The defense concerns me so much more. I'm not sure how you can complain about the Pats defense but want the Pats to target WRs high in the draft/expensive FAs. There are only so many assets that the Pats can use, I'd rather it be focused on the defensive side of the ball. If we can get Melton + Volmer resigned we are going to be strong on both sides of the line which I really like.
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tonyto3690


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think part of it is just experience which they lack. I'm also convinced BB keeps things relatively vanilla for the first 8 games/pre bye week of every season the past couple years.

Besides Wilfork and Mayo, everyone else on our defense is 24 or under IIRC. This isn't Bruschi/Vrabel/Harrison/Law where they could win with experience and wisdom. We're a young team with lots of young talented players. They just need to keep developing and growing together. Mayo and Wilfork are the only ones who can be considered in their prime, and yet we're what, 13th in points allowed? I'll take that absolutely.

Chandler
Hightower
Spikes
McCourty

Those four guys I think we can expect to see continued big time improvement the next couple years as they continue to grow.

I think we need help with our safeties, but it's not nearly as dark a forecast as people try to spin it.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tonyto3690 wrote:
I think part of it is just experience which they lack. I'm also convinced BB keeps things relatively vanilla for the first 8 games/pre bye week of every season the past couple years.

Besides Wilfork and Mayo, everyone else on our defense is 24 or under IIRC. This isn't Bruschi/Vrabel/Harrison/Law where they could win with experience and wisdom. We're a young team with lots of young talented players. They just need to keep developing and growing together. Mayo and Wilfork are the only ones who can be considered in their prime, and yet we're what, 13th in points allowed? I'll take that absolutely.

Chandler
Hightower
Spikes
McCourty

Those four guys I think we can expect to see continued big time improvement the next couple years as they continue to grow.

I think we need help with our safeties, but it's not nearly as dark a forecast as people try to spin it.


Big time improvement from Spikes and McCourty? Not so sure about that.

Spikes is IMO about as good as he'll ever be. Additional experience will help him a bit, but he's already great at what he does well and age/experience probably isn't going to make him useful in the passing game (coverage)

McCourty, he might improve if he sticks at safety and continues to learn/develop there but I wouldn't say it's a given.

I don't think the D is that many pieces away from being really good, but those missing pieces (interior rusher, DB's who aren't awful) have been elusive.
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