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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9751
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:33 am    Post subject: The Future of the OL: Webb article Reply with quote

http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2012/11/29/3707110/free-agent-tackles-would-break-the-chicago-bears-bank

Replacing J'Marcus Webb with a high priced FA is a terrible idea, not only in the short term, but in the long term plans for the Bears.

This is a long, arching segment on J'Marcus Webb, and why picking up a high priced FA left tackle is a terrible idea, and how it will ultimately lead to the Blackhawkification of the team. But, lets ignore J'Marcus Webb for a minute, and lets start with looking at the team from a financial standpoint, which should be everyone's great concern in teambuilding. I'm not a capologist by any stretch of imagination, but Mr. Steven Schweickert (I before E except after C and in Schweickert), broke it all down a bit for us much earlier in the year here.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick breakdown of the thesis is that the Bears cannot really afford a 10 million dollar a year LT like Albert or Clady.

In fact they cannot afford Jake Long becaus eye does not represent a huge improvement over Webb. Essentially saying you cannot spend 8 million on Long instead of 500k on Webb because Long is not 7.5 million better than Webb.

He advocates for spending the money in other spots like LG and C to improve the overall quality of the line.

Interesting arguement.
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Bears54


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:03 pm    Post subject: Hmmmm Reply with quote

Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Levitre can also play C which adds to his versatility and areas where we can move him in and play.

I think we are going to be surprised at how much Baker is going to get. While he will not be in the Clady 10-11 range I could see him getting 5-6 million and that might be too much of an investment for me.

Louis is starting if healthy.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
A quick breakdown of the thesis is that the Bears cannot really afford a 10 million dollar a year LT like Albert or Clady.

In fact they cannot afford Jake Long becaus eye does not represent a huge improvement over Webb. Essentially saying you cannot spend 8 million on Long instead of 500k on Webb because Long is not 7.5 million better than Webb.

He advocates for spending the money in other spots like LG and C to improve the overall quality of the line.

Interesting arguement.
We have seen how a good line can be built. Angelo built a very good one with wise investments in FAs (Tait, Reuben, Garza and Miller). If another Brown shows we have to jump.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
A quick breakdown of the thesis is that the Bears cannot really afford a 10 million dollar a year LT like Albert or Clady.

In fact they cannot afford Jake Long becaus eye does not represent a huge improvement over Webb. Essentially saying you cannot spend 8 million on Long instead of 500k on Webb because Long is not 7.5 million better than Webb.

He advocates for spending the money in other spots like LG and C to improve the overall quality of the line.

Interesting arguement.
We have seen how a good line can be built. Angelo built a very good one with wise investments in FAs (Tait, Reuben, Garza and Miller). If another Brown shows we have to jump.


Agreed we need to make moves in free agency, but we might not have the resources to get someone like Clady.

Then you have to ask what makes us better 10 million on Clady or 5 million on Levitre (LG) and 5 million on Andre Smith (RT).
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7925
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

ak06max wrote:
Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
I'm probably Webb's biggest cheerleader here (no, not my waistline) but I would be happy to see someone better take his place. I also don't see that happening particularly since he is improving his play and don't see us able to get anyone better without incredible luck.
In any case he is less of a problem than our coaching.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9751
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
I'm probably Webb's biggest cheerleader here (no, not my waistline) but I would be happy to see someone better take his place. I also don't see that happening particularly since he is improving his play and don't see us able to get anyone better without incredible luck.
In any case he is less of a problem than our coaching.


I am a Webb supporter as well.

I do not think his play warrants us over paying for Jake Long or another 10 million a year free agent.

But if I can get a guy in the draft who can compete I am doing it and the loser takes over at RT.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
I'm probably Webb's biggest cheerleader here (no, not my waistline) but I would be happy to see someone better take his place. I also don't see that happening particularly since he is improving his play and don't see us able to get anyone better without incredible luck.
In any case he is less of a problem than our coaching.


I am a Webb supporter as well.

I do not think his play warrants us over paying for Jake Long or another 10 million a year free agent.

But if I can get a guy in the draft who can compete I am doing it and the loser takes over at RT.
I would look at any senior in the SEC including back ups. I would also look at the practice squads of NE, Buffalo, SF and raid them.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 9751
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
I'm probably Webb's biggest cheerleader here (no, not my waistline) but I would be happy to see someone better take his place. I also don't see that happening particularly since he is improving his play and don't see us able to get anyone better without incredible luck.
In any case he is less of a problem than our coaching.


I am a Webb supporter as well.

I do not think his play warrants us over paying for Jake Long or another 10 million a year free agent.

But if I can get a guy in the draft who can compete I am doing it and the loser takes over at RT.
I would look at any senior in the SEC including back ups. I would also look at the practice squads of NE, Buffalo, SF and raid them.


This draft does not seem to have a Joe Thomas type tackles prospect.

But what it does have is a lot of depth.

Luke Joekyl
Taylor Lewan
Jake Matthews
Eric Fisher
Lane Johnson
Justin Pugh

These guys are all potential 1st round picks.
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Badger75


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The genius of Jim Finks Wink

1981 Jay Hilgenberg C Iowa (1981-'93) and Keith Van Horne T USC (1981-'93)

1983 Jim Covert T Pitt (1983-'90) and Mark Bortz G Iowa (1983-'94)

1985 Tom Thayer G Notre Dame (1985-'93)
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ak06max


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 1242
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: Hmmmm Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
ak06max wrote:
Bears54 wrote:
Depending on how our 2013 Draft Board looks, I say our offensive line has to be our #1 priority going into the draft and via free agency.

According to the article we cant afford a franchise LT, and Webb is decent at best so far. I want to take a look at the Saints O-line in 2011. They didnt have great OTs but they had probably 2 of the best OGs in the NFL. They had Car Nicks and Evans. I would want to follow that formula for our O-line.

I would really look into Andy Levitre (Buf) and Brandon Moore (Jets) to sign to the Bears offensive line. Moore is 33 years old but he is still better than average and reminds me of Brain Waters who showed last year at 35 years old he can still play at a high level.

I would resign Garza to a cheap contract. Release Chris Spencer and Edwin Williams. Lance Louis isnt going to be 100% at the start of season next year, I dont trust Carimi at RT or OG, so Webb and Garza are the only 2 starters returning day 1.

LT- Webb
LG- Andy Levitre/ Louis
C- Garza
RG- Moore/ Carimi
RT- 2013 1st round or 2nd round pick

I say we are going to be picking in the 30s this year in the draft but we should still have some really good players fall to us. I wouldnt mind seeing us draft a RT in the 1st round.

You never know, Phil Emery once being with the Falcons might go after Sam Baker for RT.

I would love to sign Andy Levitre and Sam Baker in the offseason.


I really hope Webb isnt our starter next year. He isnt consistent and he never will be.
I'm probably Webb's biggest cheerleader here (no, not my waistline) but I would be happy to see someone better take his place. I also don't see that happening particularly since he is improving his play and don't see us able to get anyone better without incredible luck.
In any case he is less of a problem than our coaching.



This I agree our coaching is horrid (minus toub and maybe marinelli gets a pass. The LT spot is the 2nd most important position on this offense. if Long or Clady want to come for the ride sign him. We will figure out a way to make capI have faith in emery
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure I agree with this article. If there is a franchise type LT available in FA ala Branden Albert or Jake Long then the Bears absolutely need to pounce on that and then focus their drafting on shoring up that defense. This is not a young team and the window is slowly closing on defense.

Do any of you really want to go through the crapshoot of drafting another promising OL prospect and patiently waiting for them to get acclimated to the NFL game while potentially further risking Cutler's career? I've seen enough of that over the past 5 years with Chris Williams and now Gabe Carimi.

This is not me saying the Bears still shouldn't draft and develop O-linemen; however, it would be foolish for any of us to think that simply drafting an o-linemen early in the 2013 draft is going to solve the issues on this o-line as early as next season. Go out and get a stud. They owe that to Cutler and the aging players on this defense.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Not sure I agree with this article. If there is a franchise type LT available in FA ala Branden Albert or Jake Long then the Bears absolutely need to pounce on that and then focus their drafting on shoring up that defense. This is not a young team and the window is slowly closing on defense.

Do any of you really want to go through the crapshoot of drafting another promising OL prospect and patiently waiting for them to get acclimated to the NFL game while potentially further risking Cutler's career? I've seen enough of that over the past 5 years with Chris Williams and now Gabe Carimi.

This is not me saying the Bears still shouldn't draft and develop O-linemen; however, it would be foolish for any of us to think that simply drafting an o-linemen early in the 2013 draft is going to solve the issues on this o-line as early as next season. Go out and get a stud. They owe that to Cutler and the aging players on this defense.


The article is really saying we cannot afford one of those tackles.

I expect Albert, Bushrod and Clady to get tagged.

Long is over rated at this point.

That leaves us with guys like Vollmer and Andre Smith.
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