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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
Posts: 1177
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Palmer has literally thrown away at least three games this year. ATL, TB, CLE. Did he get us in the position to win some games in the first place? Probably. That's enough for me to keep him around I guess. But his decisions have to improve or we will look back after next season and think "QB was a need all along." But as of now we have so many other pressing needs before we look for a new QB, even with his high salary.


Palmer is literally the only reason we were even in those games to begin w/. Defense let him down, no running game, offensive line sucks, his and the WRs and Myers are it. Not only that, since when is a game won or lost or in your case "literally thrown away" on a couple of plays if not in the Brown's case, ONE play?? That's silly. Not only that, why not fault the WRs for the ridiculous amount of drops that killed numerous drives in which we could've scored? Why not talk about that?

If you've watched, you can tell Carson is fine. Sure, he makes a couple mistakes a game, it happens. Brees just threw 4 INTs last week. No one is saying they need to get rid of him.... it happens to everyone. Carson and the QB position is the least of our worries.


Just hilarious. Completely forgot Palmer was the reason ATL marched 90+ yards down field. Or allowed TB to score 45pts, or who went away from the running plays that were actually working for once in the CLE. game
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 13334
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

early43 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
justwinbaby81 wrote:
Palmer has literally thrown away at least three games this year. ATL, TB, CLE. Did he get us in the position to win some games in the first place? Probably. That's enough for me to keep him around I guess. But his decisions have to improve or we will look back after next season and think "QB was a need all along." But as of now we have so many other pressing needs before we look for a new QB, even with his high salary.


Palmer is literally the only reason we were even in those games to begin w/. Defense let him down, no running game, offensive line sucks, his and the WRs and Myers are it. Not only that, since when is a game won or lost or in your case "literally thrown away" on a couple of plays if not in the Brown's case, ONE play?? That's silly. Not only that, why not fault the WRs for the ridiculous amount of drops that killed numerous drives in which we could've scored? Why not talk about that?

If you've watched, you can tell Carson is fine. Sure, he makes a couple mistakes a game, it happens. Brees just threw 4 INTs last week. No one is saying they need to get rid of him.... it happens to everyone. Carson and the QB position is the least of our worries.


Just hilarious. Completely forgot Palmer was the reason ATL marched 90+ yards down field. Or allowed TB to score 45pts, or who went away from the running plays that were actually working for once in the CLE. game
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take:

Palmer's not the main problem. He'll lose you some games, sure but if he had something of a supporting cast, he'd win a lot more. Consider what he has to deal with. Seriously, how many drops were there against the Browns? The offensive line still is pretty putrid in pass protection which greatly affects him. Our running game finally woke up with players that can run in a ZBS, so that's not a huge issue any more. But our defense still gives up points too easily. And let's not forget Knapp's horrendous playcalling. Yeah, CP audibles but how much can you do that in a game?

Bottom line: it's unfair to expect him to carry the team to victory week in and week out. And I realize that isn't the expectation; but when you think about it, just about every week he has to deal with all of those problems and the only way we'd win is if he put the team on his back.

Now, this does not mean he's exempt from his screw ups and blameless. Far from it, he makes a decent amount of mistakes. Especially yesterday. I just think he's getting treated a bit harshly for not saving the season while routinely getting the short end of the stick. Could we do better? Yeah. But we're kinda stuck with him, so as I guess BP says, settle in.

As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1416
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
My take:

Palmer's not the main problem. He'll lose you some games, sure but if he had something of a supporting cast, he'd win a lot more. Consider what he has to deal with. Seriously, how many drops were there against the Browns? The offensive line still is pretty putrid in pass protection which greatly affects him. Our running game finally woke up with players that can run in a ZBS, so that's not a huge issue any more. But our defense still gives up points too easily. And let's not forget Knapp's horrendous playcalling. Yeah, CP audibles but how much can you do that in a game?

Bottom line: it's unfair to expect him to carry the team to victory week in and week out. And I realize that isn't the expectation; but when you think about it, just about every week he has to deal with all of those problems and the only way we'd win is if he put the team on his back.

Now, this does not mean he's exempt from his screw ups and blameless. Far from it, he makes a decent amount of mistakes. Especially yesterday. I just think he's getting treated a bit harshly for not saving the season while routinely getting the short end of the stick. Could we do better? Yeah. But we're kinda stuck with him, so as I guess BP says, settle in.

As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.


Great post S&B88, well thought out and articulated. This should be the final word on the matter.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1416
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
My take:

Palmer's not the main problem. He'll lose you some games, sure but if he had something of a supporting cast, he'd win a lot more. Consider what he has to deal with. Seriously, how many drops were there against the Browns? The offensive line still is pretty putrid in pass protection which greatly affects him. Our running game finally woke up with players that can run in a ZBS, so that's not a huge issue any more. But our defense still gives up points too easily. And let's not forget Knapp's horrendous playcalling. Yeah, CP audibles but how much can you do that in a game?

Bottom line: it's unfair to expect him to carry the team to victory week in and week out. And I realize that isn't the expectation; but when you think about it, just about every week he has to deal with all of those problems and the only way we'd win is if he put the team on his back.

Now, this does not mean he's exempt from his screw ups and blameless. Far from it, he makes a decent amount of mistakes. Especially yesterday. I just think he's getting treated a bit harshly for not saving the season while routinely getting the short end of the stick. Could we do better? Yeah. But we're kinda stuck with him, so as I guess BP says, settle in.

As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.


Great post S&B88, well thought out and articulated. This should be the final word on the matter.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of double posts lately.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

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Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of double posts lately.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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justwinbaby81


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 3995
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
My take:

Palmer's not the main problem. He'll lose you some games, sure but if he had something of a supporting cast, he'd win a lot more. Consider what he has to deal with. Seriously, how many drops were there against the Browns? The offensive line still is pretty putrid in pass protection which greatly affects him. Our running game finally woke up with players that can run in a ZBS, so that's not a huge issue any more. But our defense still gives up points too easily. And let's not forget Knapp's horrendous playcalling. Yeah, CP audibles but how much can you do that in a game?

Bottom line: it's unfair to expect him to carry the team to victory week in and week out. And I realize that isn't the expectation; but when you think about it, just about every week he has to deal with all of those problems and the only way we'd win is if he put the team on his back.

Now, this does not mean he's exempt from his screw ups and blameless. Far from it, he makes a decent amount of mistakes. Especially yesterday. I just think he's getting treated a bit harshly for not saving the season while routinely getting the short end of the stick. Could we do better? Yeah. But we're kinda stuck with him, so as I guess BP says, settle in.

As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.


It would be nice to see what Palmer can do with a good offensive line. I really hope we spend money in free agency for a high quality left tackle and a good interior lineman. Move Veldheer to RT and see what the offense can do with a legitimate offensive coordinator.

And use our entire draft rebuilding the defense.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16106
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:


As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.


idk those play action roll out plays imo are tp's specialty and knapp loves to call them. cp is so out of his element on the roll outs its sad. sometimes he could scramble and get the first to extend drives but he doesnt. seemed like the defense knew he wasnt a threat to run so they doubled up on coverage. i know people say well he is a qb so his job is to throw but sometimes a qb has to tuck it and run for a first.
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
dawsonleery wrote:
We without a doubt, need a QB. Carson Palmer is a loser. He went 4-12 his last season with the Bengals, 4-5 in 2011 and now he's 3-9... I mean really? And he's a 33 year old veteran. What is so exciting about Palmer? I know Palmer doesn't deserve all the blame, he's far from the only problem but he is NOT the solution.


I love people who think winning and losing is solely the QB's fault or in this case, contradict themselves over the course of their post. "The guy's a loser. He's lost 1029358 games but it's not all his fault"

If you've actually watched the games and not looked at the W-L column only, you'd realize Palmer has played well in 80% of the games this season and most of this w/o a running game or an offensive line.

We most certainly do not need a QB. Not the least bit.


1. I watch the games.

2. I clearly said its not all Palmer's fault Raiders are bad. But until he can lead a team to a winning season, he's a loser, simple. Not hard to understand we have winners and losers.

Raiders are a team in full rebuild mode, Palmer is a 33 year old QB with a huge salary... He's not the only problem with the team but he's not the answer either. That's what I said. You are twisting my words. Palmer has no future here, he's not going to lead this team to anything but a top 5 draft pick.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 1595
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's amazing just how bad this team is. The defense was bad last year and then you get rid off routt and wimbley,and the decline of Seymour, and this year the defense is just horrendous.But what's very troubling is the offense regressing under Greg knapp.we had the offense to rely on last year as a strength, now the running game is non existent, Moore has become invisible and virtually no big plays. We have to build through the draft starting on both lines.keep Palmer and DMC . Fire knapp and tarver.Does anyone think Hue would come back as OC?he was a great play caller. If Reggie would swallow his pride and admit he jumped the gun on him and bring him back.Then use our high pick on star or mingo, and also mix in a few free agents. We could easily be a 9 win team next year.
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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 943
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pro Football Weekly has started a Jon Gruden back to Oakland rumor.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7417
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dawsonleery wrote:
We without a doubt, need a QB. Carson Palmer is a loser. He went 4-12 his last season with the Bengals, 4-5 in 2011 and now he's 3-9... I mean really? And he's a 33 year old veteran. What is so exciting about Palmer? I know Palmer doesn't deserve all the blame, he's far from the only problem but he is NOT the solution.


Palmer is a loser. So what?? The Raiders still need him as a transition bridge to fix the organization. You do realize if the Raiders cut or traded Palmer right now they would be in salary cap Armageddon? The last thing the Raiders need to do is alienate a decent player. And YES right now the players have a lot of leverage they shouldn't. Do you want to get better? Then let the Palmer contract poison play out and Pryor is the collateral damage. OR continue to sign people to bad contracts to coerce them play in Oakland where the best we could hope for is .500 ball.

Palmer is NOT the solution, having the cap space is the problem. Palmer is good enough RIGHT NOW.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 37139
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:


As for Pryor: If a guy like Palmer can't succeed, why would Pryor? Palmer actually can zip a ball, execute anticipation throws and run the offense including audibles. These are all things Pryor struggled with as recently as preseason. And on top of that, he'd be strapped with all the crap Palmer deals with. Drops, Knapp, bad blocking, etc. I'm not saying never play him, but starting him would be ridiculous imo. I'm fine with playing him in garbage time after a game is decided, but starting? Hell to the no.


idk those play action roll out plays imo are tp's specialty and knapp loves to call them. cp is so out of his element on the roll outs its sad. sometimes he could scramble and get the first to extend drives but he doesnt. seemed like the defense knew he wasnt a threat to run so they doubled up on coverage. i know people say well he is a qb so his job is to throw but sometimes a qb has to tuck it and run for a first.


I know you didn't mean it like this but tbh it really sounds like you just want a qb that can run it. You neglect that Pryor has issues with mechanics, especially footwork. How would rollouts make that easier on him? We all know he can't be getting coached that well Laughing
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
dawsonleery wrote:
We without a doubt, need a QB. Carson Palmer is a loser. He went 4-12 his last season with the Bengals, 4-5 in 2011 and now he's 3-9... I mean really? And he's a 33 year old veteran. What is so exciting about Palmer? I know Palmer doesn't deserve all the blame, he's far from the only problem but he is NOT the solution.


Palmer is a loser. So what?? The Raiders still need him as a transition bridge to fix the organization. You do realize if the Raiders cut or traded Palmer right now they would be in salary cap Armageddon? The last thing the Raiders need to do is alienate a decent player. And YES right now the players have a lot of leverage they shouldn't. Do you want to get better? Then let the Palmer contract poison play out and Pryor is the collateral damage. OR continue to sign people to bad contracts to coerce them play in Oakland where the best we could hope for is .500 ball.

Palmer is NOT the solution, having the cap space is the problem. Palmer is good enough RIGHT NOW.


How much dead money would Palmer cost us.
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