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JoeDaJetfan


Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: The most encompassing view of our cap situation Reply with quote

http://nyjetscap.com/2012_Articles/capproblems.html
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 12694
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great article, all of which ideas I have been playing with. I was tentative to say anything in the trade Revis thread because I was worrying I was getting antsy but seeing it here makes realize it might actually be a good idea. It would be tough for anyone to trade away the best defensive player this team has ever seen, arguably the best player this team has seen period, but for us to get on the right track it might be the best thing.

Personally, what I have been making up in my mocks, I would cut pace, Smith, Smith, Scott, Pouha, Holmes. Then I would float around Cro and Revis's contract and see what we could get for them. I wouldn't go worse than a 3rd for Cro and a 2nd and something else for Revis. Otherwise it is not worth it. I really don't think Harris or Sanchez are movable. We will probably just have to ride out their contracts. I would then look around FA to look for players who are young with high ceilings.

It sucks but it is probably the best way to get back on track.

Also Tanny needs to go.
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xenajets


Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 1189
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamorange wrote:
Great article, all of which ideas I have been playing with. I was tentative to say anything in the trade Revis thread because I was worrying I was getting antsy but seeing it here makes realize it might actually be a good idea. It would be tough for anyone to trade away the best defensive player this team has ever seen, arguably the best player this team has seen period, but for us to get on the right track it might be the best thing.

Personally, what I have been making up in my mocks, I would cut pace, Smith, Smith, Scott, Pouha, Holmes. Then I would float around Cro and Revis's contract and see what we could get for them. I wouldn't go worse than a 3rd for Cro and a 2nd and something else for Revis. Otherwise it is not worth it. I really don't think Harris or Sanchez are movable. We will probably just have to ride out their contracts. I would then look around FA to look for players who are young with high ceilings.

It sucks but it is probably the best way to get back on track.

Also Tanny needs to go.


You are being sarcastic right???

A 3rd for Cro and a 2nd plus change for Revis youve got to be kidding?
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
Posts: 4257
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xenajets wrote:
teamorange wrote:
Great article, all of which ideas I have been playing with. I was tentative to say anything in the trade Revis thread because I was worrying I was getting antsy but seeing it here makes realize it might actually be a good idea. It would be tough for anyone to trade away the best defensive player this team has ever seen, arguably the best player this team has seen period, but for us to get on the right track it might be the best thing.

Personally, what I have been making up in my mocks, I would cut pace, Smith, Smith, Scott, Pouha, Holmes. Then I would float around Cro and Revis's contract and see what we could get for them. I wouldn't go worse than a 3rd for Cro and a 2nd and something else for Revis. Otherwise it is not worth it. I really don't think Harris or Sanchez are movable. We will probably just have to ride out their contracts. I would then look around FA to look for players who are young with high ceilings.

It sucks but it is probably the best way to get back on track.

Also Tanny needs to go.


You are being sarcastic right???

A 3rd for Cro and a 2nd plus change for Revis youve got to be kidding?


Right. Let's trade our best two players for cap space and draft picks!
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Jetsman82


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 19845
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact trading away our best player ever is even a discussion shows how dysfunctional the Jets are right now.

Revis is not the problem. Guys like Holmes, Harris, and Sanchez are. They're all WAY over payed, especially Holmes and Sanchez. If the Jets want to he out of this mess, they need to burn some of these terrible contracts, not get stingy with the one player who's actually earned his deal.
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Revis4president


Joined: 05 Mar 2012
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsman82 wrote:
The fact trading away our best player ever is even a discussion shows how dysfunctional the Jets are right now.

Revis is not the problem. Guys like Holmes, Harris, and Sanchez are. They're all WAY over payed, especially Holmes and Sanchez. If the Jets want to he out of this mess, they need to burn some of these terrible contracts, not get stingy with the one player who's actually earned his deal.


I absolutely agree. Everyone needs to stop talking about trading Revis it's disrespectful because he's the only guy that is dominant on this team.
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GangGreen718


Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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Location: Bronx, New York
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanny screwed up big time
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rdelaney89


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 1613
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I'm not sure I can find it in me to trade Revis or Cro I know it is a possibility. I just don't think any team would be wise to give up their 2 best players. They are the only dominant players on our team outside of Mangold. They are blue chip players that you don't let go.
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jetskid007


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 7929
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the process of creating my first in-depth mock of this season, and I implemented a lot of the transactions in my version to create cap relief. I've been working on it a little each day for a while now, but I took a slightly different approach then he offers in his Scenario A and B...

For mine, I gave both Mangold and Cromartie signing bonuses, because my thinking is that the new GM will want to keep the good players around. Cromartie does talk more then you want him to, but give him serious props: he's been all in on the Jets since the day he signed his contract and as far as I'm concerned, he's backed up his statement that he's better than Asomugha (at least now) and deserves to stay. Mangold is Mangold, so there's no reason why the new GM would be opposed to allocating cap to future years of his contract.

The next move was cutting Santonio Holmes. The new GM is not going to be defined by players like Holmes and would rather eat the dead money and take the $1.25M cap relief then deal with the Santonio we've been accustomed to since he signed a new deal.

I cut all the other players he mentioned (Pace, Scott, Smith, Smith, and Pouha) but I also released Tim Tebow. Again, the new GM is not going to inherit the Tebow move as his own, and it saves the team cap.


If all those moves were performed, we'd be roughly $25-30 million under the cap.


What fans need to understand is that this will be a process. If we do sign a new GM who decides to keep Sanchez and Rex, 2013 is going to be their audition year. The Jets are going to have a tough schedule, but it's going to be Rex's job to coach better and get the most out of the teams high draft picks in recent years, and Mark's job to prove that he is the Jets franchise QB. Even if the Jets are a subpar team again next season I think there's a chance Rex and Sanchez will stay; it's a matter of how they perform.

If Sanchez plays well and Rex does all he can as a coach but the young team is able to be around .500, I think a new GM would stick with them. It takes more then one offseason to correctly add talent to a roster, and that's understandable if they plan on getting younger players on the field. If they have a repeat of 2011 and 2012's inconsistencies, they'll both be gone.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 5608
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsman82 wrote:
The fact trading away our best player ever is even a discussion shows how dysfunctional the Jets are right now.

Revis is not the problem. Guys like Holmes, Harris, and Sanchez are. They're all WAY over payed, especially Holmes and Sanchez. If the Jets want to he out of this mess, they need to burn some of these terrible contracts, not get stingy with the one player who's actually earned his deal.


I think it shows how dysfunctional and overreacting our fan base is. You dont throw away solid players in their prime. You especially dont throw away your Best player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In addition double down on stupidity and try to trade your other solid - elite player at the same position.

Sure Cro talks a lot but he backs it up most times on the field. I never have minded a player talking as long as his play on the field justified it. And considering we are in NYC and the media takes anything and makes a mountain out of it I dont see the huge issue present with the talking from him.

Our issues on D are only need for a true FS and 2 young OLBs. Honestly one great OLB and a decent FS would fix our D ASAP if you can get after the passer and have cromartie and revis on the outsides. Landry blowing up people with another safety who can play the ball, you can play pass D. And we have a stud in Wilkerson a solid player in Pouha and hopefully another stud in Coples.

NO 1 Priority Pass Rush
NO 2 Priority for God Sakes some offensive talent... We need a true no 1 WR and a true no 1 HB + probably a guard with Moore gettin up there in age and play falling off.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 5608
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetsman82 wrote:
The fact trading away our best player ever is even a discussion shows how dysfunctional the Jets are right now.

Revis is not the problem. Guys like Holmes, Harris, and Sanchez are. They're all WAY over payed, especially Holmes and Sanchez. If the Jets want to he out of this mess, they need to burn some of these terrible contracts, not get stingy with the one player who's actually earned his deal.


I think it shows how dysfunctional and overreacting our fan base is. You dont throw away solid players in their prime. You especially dont throw away your Best player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In addition double down on stupidity and try to trade your other solid - elite player at the same position.

Sure Cro talks a lot but he backs it up most times on the field. I never have minded a player talking as long as his play on the field justified it. And considering we are in NYC and the media takes anything and makes a mountain out of it I dont see the huge issue present with the talking from him.

Our issues on D are only need for a true FS and 2 young OLBs. Honestly one great OLB and a decent FS would fix our D ASAP if you can get after the passer and have cromartie and revis on the outsides. Landry blowing up people with another safety who can play the ball, you can play pass D. And we have a stud in Wilkerson a solid player in Pouha and hopefully another stud in Coples.

NO 1 Priority Pass Rush
NO 2 Priority for God Sakes some offensive talent... We need a true no 1 WR and a true no 1 HB + probably a guard with Moore gettin up there in age and play falling off.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 12694
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xenajets wrote:


You are being sarcastic right???

A 3rd for Cro and a 2nd plus change for Revis youve got to be kidding?


I am not sure if you know what leverage is and what little of it we have. Revis is entering the last year of his contract and I kind of expect him to walk. He will make money regardless of where he goes and probably will go to a contender. At least that is what I will do. Plus he is coming off an injury, so that hurts his value even more.

Cro is making 11 million a year for two more years, that hurts his value a lot. And like the article said, I am not sure of the market for him.

Plus, I said minimum, most teams would require more and some teams I wouldn't even deal with (Patriots and Giants) unless they gave me all of King Midas's silver.

Revis4president wrote:


it's disrespectful


I love Revis but one of my biggest criticisms is he is a pretty selfish player. He has held out several times already, and only cares about his paycheck. That's fine, whatever motivates you to get better and be the best at your trade is fine by me but I really have no loyalty to him.

rdelaney89 wrote:
Yea I'm not sure I can find it in me to trade Revis or Cro I know it is a possibility. I just don't think any team would be wise to give up their 2 best players. They are the only dominant players on our team outside of Mangold. They are blue chip players that you don't let go.


To be honest, we are in a stage where we won't be contending for awhile and it will be a waste of their prime and by the time I foresee us being contenders they will be on their last legs. Why not try and get some value for them? By the way, I am still thinking about this, I am not sure if it is or isn't the best option for the team but it is certainly a viable option that deserves discussing.

KBS756 wrote:


I think it shows how dysfunctional and overreacting our fan base is. You dont throw away solid players in their prime. You especially dont throw away your Best player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In addition double down on stupidity and try to trade your other solid - elite player at the same position.


My first question to you is, how long do you think it will take till we are a contender with the current roster?

KBS756 wrote:


NO 1 Priority Pass Rush
NO 2 Priority for God Sakes some offensive talent... We need a true no 1 WR and a true no 1 HB + probably a guard with Moore gettin up there in age and play falling off.


Aw [inappropriate/removed] man, since you put it that way will be a contender in no time. All we need is four more pro bowl players in the next draft and we will be right there!

You know what you said, could be said about the rest of the league? Not to mention we have many more holes than that?
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xenajets


Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 1189
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamorange wrote:
xenajets wrote:


You are being sarcastic right???

A 3rd for Cro and a 2nd plus change for Revis youve got to be kidding?


I am not sure if you know what leverage is and what little of it we have. Revis is entering the last year of his contract and I kind of expect him to walk. He will make money regardless of where he goes and probably will go to a contender. At least that is what I will do. Plus he is coming off an injury, so that hurts his value even more.

Cro is making 11 million a year for two more years, that hurts his value a lot. And like the article said, I am not sure of the market for him.

Plus, I said minimum, most teams would require more and some teams I wouldn't even deal with (Patriots and Giants) unless they gave me all of King Midas's silver.


Revis4president wrote:


it's disrespectful


I love Revis but one of my biggest criticisms is he is a pretty selfish player. He has held out several times already, and only cares about his paycheck. That's fine, whatever motivates you to get better and be the best at your trade is fine by me but I really have no loyalty to him.

rdelaney89 wrote:
Yea I'm not sure I can find it in me to trade Revis or Cro I know it is a possibility. I just don't think any team would be wise to give up their 2 best players. They are the only dominant players on our team outside of Mangold. They are blue chip players that you don't let go.


To be honest, we are in a stage where we won't be contending for awhile and it will be a waste of their prime and by the time I foresee us being contenders they will be on their last legs. Why not try and get some value for them? By the way, I am still thinking about this, I am not sure if it is or isn't the best option for the team but it is certainly a viable option that deserves discussing.

KBS756 wrote:


I think it shows how dysfunctional and overreacting our fan base is. You dont throw away solid players in their prime. You especially dont throw away your Best player and one of the best defensive players in the league. In addition double down on stupidity and try to trade your other solid - elite player at the same position.


My first question to you is, how long do you think it will take till we are a contender with the current roster?

KBS756 wrote:


NO 1 Priority Pass Rush
NO 2 Priority for God Sakes some offensive talent... We need a true no 1 WR and a true no 1 HB + probably a guard with Moore gettin up there in age and play falling off.


Aw [inappropriate/removed] man, since you put it that way will be a contender in no time. All we need is four more pro bowl players in the next draft and we will be right there!

You know what you said, could be said about the rest of the league? Not to mention we have many more holes than that?


I know what leverage is but believe me but if you think that when our best player maybe ever who will be entering his prime is trade-able then your seriously wrong. I don't care if you point to our cap situation, id rather have Revis on this team period!
What message would that give, trading our best player! Do you think the Cowboys would give Ware away or the 49ers with Willis. We traded up and grabbed the best defensive back in the league and we will have to pay him accordingly.
I agree with you in essence if you think Revis will not sign a contract purely because he thinks we are done and he doesnt ever want to play for us again but until that comes out then any talk of trading Revis is stupidity.
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teamorange


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xenajets wrote:


I know what leverage is but believe me but if you think that when our best player maybe ever who will be entering his prime is trade-able then your seriously wrong. I don't care if you point to our cap situation, id rather have Revis on this team period!
What message would that give, trading our best player! Do you think the Cowboys would give Ware away or the 49ers with Willis. We traded up and grabbed the best defensive back in the league and we will have to pay him accordingly.
I agree with you in essence if you think Revis will not sign a contract purely because he thinks we are done and he doesnt ever want to play for us again but until that comes out then any talk of trading Revis is stupidity.


You should read what I write before you respond. My theory has nothing to do with the cap situation but rather getting value for players when we will be in a long rebuilding process. Having Revis on a losing/middling team does nothing. Why not get value for him and possible make our team stronger for when we can challenge again?

Also the 49ers and Cowboys are in different situations than we are. One is an obvious contender, the other could be a contender if they right the ship. Both of those teams should be looking to take on vets with less than optimal contracts while their Superbowl window is still open.
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KBS756


Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 5608
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teamorange wrote:


KBS756 wrote:


NO 1 Priority Pass Rush
NO 2 Priority for God Sakes some offensive talent... We need a true no 1 WR and a true no 1 HB + probably a guard with Moore gettin up there in age and play falling off.


Aw [inappropriate/removed] man, since you put it that way will be a contender in no time. All we need is four more pro bowl players in the next draft and we will be right there!

You know what you said, could be said about the rest of the league? Not to mention we have many more holes than that?


I realize we are several players away from being a solid offense, and that especially with this draft isnt likely to be fixed, but that doesnt mean we cant land a couple of the pieces and become a competent offense with a good defense. With Revis back all we would really need is 1 elite pass rusher on D and we would be one of the best defenses again.

Offense I realize is a serious problem but there are ways to fill holes probably not all of them but at leasts some of them.

and on offense they dont have to be pro bowlers they just have to be competent not Asking for Calvin Johnson + Adrian Peterson + Ben Grubbs on Offense ...

Say Darren Mcfadden becomes available and we land him cheapish that would fill the HB need. WR I am not so sure of who we could get on the market but I do not want to see Holmes as our first WR again.

If we had an elite pass rusher (as may be possible with this upcoming draft) and Revis our D would be far better then it is now. Other than the pass rusher I think we have the young guys on D to get what we need out of them.

We cant buy and deal our way to a great offense in one season but there are people who may be available, you never know someone refuses to pay a decent HB and we have a shot of landing someone.

Also when it comes to leverage on the Revis deal. I expect him to stay a Jet and I expect him to want to stay a Jet. I know what leverage is but you do not trade away your best player who is arguably the best at his position in the league for what amounts to chump change in comparison.

Also I dont think this will be a long rebuild more like a retool (other than Offense theres deff some building needed there) if done right we should be in the hunt for a playoff berth from next year itself.
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