Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Interesting input on our dline.

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Tampa Bay Buccaneers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8642
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:15 am    Post subject: Interesting input on our dline. Reply with quote

http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=78943

Quote:
McCoy is pushing the pocket against the pass, Moore told the Ron and Ian Show on WDAE-AM 620, but the Bucs’ defensive ends aren’t forcing quarterbacks to step up. QBs are able to move laterally, rather than being forced to step up where McCoy has eaten space.

“What’s happening is Gerald McCoy is collapsing the inside, but because the quarterback’s able to step to his left or to his right, rather than forcing the step-up, or having to throw it right away to shorten his motion because there’s a guy coming from inside. What you’re missing is Clayborn on the outside. You’re missing the guys to force the quarterback to step up into the pocket.”


Very interesting. Although its been something myself and fellow buc fans have also pointed out. Glad to see Dave Moore is on the same page. Although I'm not sure if Clayborn would fix our pass rush problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ravishingone


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 3095
Location: Leola
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not trying to make an excuse for the d-line, but three of the starters (Te'-o Nesheim, McCoy, and Bennett) have never played this many snaps through entire NFL season, much less 11 games. Bennett was a rotation guy last year. Bowers is still only playing about 20-25 snaps a game, which is wise by the coaching staff.

I like Miller and Gibson, but really next year this team just needs one of them on the roster to be the run stopping NT. I think it will be Miller, but his 1.5 career sacks offer nothing on the pass rush.

Even with Clayborn coming back, I would like to see 2 solid additions to the d-line to give depth and let guys be fresher throughout the game. A good pass rushing team like the Giants will rotate about 8 d-line throughout the game, the Bucs right now are doing it with 6 guys. Gibson is probably getting less snaps then Bowers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1972
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
Not trying to make an excuse for the d-line, but three of the starters (Te'-o Nesheim, McCoy, and Bennett) have never played this many snaps through entire NFL season, much less 11 games. Bennett was a rotation guy last year. Bowers is still only playing about 20-25 snaps a game, which is wise by the coaching staff.

I like Miller and Gibson, but really next year this team just needs one of them on the roster to be the run stopping NT. I think it will be Miller, but his 1.5 career sacks offer nothing on the pass rush.

Even with Clayborn coming back, I would like to see 2 solid additions to the d-line to give depth and let guys be fresher throughout the game. A good pass rushing team like the Giants will rotate about 8 d-line throughout the game, the Bucs right now are doing it with 6 guys. Gibson is probably getting less snaps then Bowers.
That's a very good point. In regards to the OP, yeah McCoy isn't getting much help from his teammates. Bennett has shown flashes of getting in there but he doesn't bring "it" every series. Tyson Clabo owned him badly last week. TNG is a rotational guy at best so I already knew his production wasn't going to be that great. Bowers isn't getting many snaps but when he does go in there he makes an impact. My only gripe was that last weekend, Atlanta ran sweeps/tosses on his side and he did a [inappropriate/removed] poor job defending the run. But, he is out of shape and still a solid pass rusher.

I think Tampa should really look into drafting another Defensive linemen early if there aren't any corners worthy. Giants took JPP even when Kiwi-Osi-and Tuck were on the defensive line. So I'm open for a guy like Dion Jordan or Ansah too. As for now, if we can land a great value defensive line guy that slips in the draft a la Hankins, Short, Richardson, Jenkins from Georgia would help McCoy out a lot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 29803
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why we need a pure pass rusher. Bennett is best in a rotation, and he can play inside on passing downs. Clayborn does an excellent job pushing the tackle back in the pocket but that isn't always effective, especially when the QB is able to slide away. Bowers should, and probably will, be on a snap count for the next few seasons, if not his whole career. He's a great talent but he's no good on IR.

We need a speed rusher. A guy that can constantly get around the tackle and force the QB to move. A guy that can contain one side of the line and prevent the QB from sliding away from pressure. The guys we have now look like they're on roller skates most of the time.

A legitimate pass rush would do wonders for our defense. And when we play Cam, Brees, and Matty Ice twice each each year, we've gotta get after 'em. They'd pick us apart if we had Revis and Scrabble combined with our aenemic pass rush.

Get. After. The. QB.
_________________

Adopt-a-Buc Lavonte David 12 Games | 133 Tackles (16 for loss) | 1 Sack | 4 PDs | 3 FFs | 1 FR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8642
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting piece from Joe Theissman this morning on Ron and Ian wdea. He said it best. He labeled the eagles a perfect example saying doesn't matter how good your secondary is. They're only as good as you're front 4. The eagles have pro bowlers and an all pro in the secondary but get shredded every week bc they're dline gets very little pressure.

He went on to say about Tampa that there isn't much pressure from the outside pass rush and guys like Matt Ryan will pick anyone apart when facing very little pressure in the pocket.

If our dline can't get to someone like Peyton manning he's going to light us up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4240
Location: PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to start a thread with a similar idea. I noticed some stats regarding our defense a few weeks ago but never got around to posting it.

We are 32nd in pass defense. Which we can all agree, is awful. The only debate is whether the pass rush or the coverage is more to blame. Both deserve it, but I think one is worse.

But, we're 21st in opposing QB rating. Still not good, but much better than last. What it means is despite the high YPA (31st) and completion percentage (30th) we do give up, we don't give up a lot of TDs (tied for 18th in the league with 3 other teams) and get a good amount of INTs (3rd in the league).

We're also tied for 28th in the league in sacks. I'd be willing to be we are also very low in hits and pressures.

What these stats say to me is that opposing QBs have more time to throw more than they are just quickly finding the open man. We wouldn't be allowing such a high YPA if that weren't true, IMO.

The issue is the pass rush, IMO, and the DEs aren't getting it done. Even with Clayborn, Bennett, and Bowers, I see DE as the biggest issue. Bowers and Bennett could end up being great rotational guys, but we don't have a pass rushing DE outside of Clayborn.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 29803
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RoeKG wrote:
I was going to start a thread with a similar idea. I noticed some stats regarding our defense a few weeks ago but never got around to posting it.

We are 32nd in pass defense. Which we can all agree, is awful. The only debate is whether the pass rush or the coverage is more to blame. Both deserve it, but I think one is worse.

But, we're 21st in opposing QB rating. Still not good, but much better than last. What it means is despite the high YPA (31st) and completion percentage (30th) we do give up, we don't give up a lot of TDs (tied for 18th in the league with 3 other teams) and get a good amount of INTs (3rd in the league).

We're also tied for 28th in the league in sacks. I'd be willing to be we are also very low in hits and pressures.

What these stats say to me is that opposing QBs have more time to throw more than they are just quickly finding the open man. We wouldn't be allowing such a high YPA if that weren't true, IMO.

The issue is the pass rush, IMO, and the DEs aren't getting it done. Even with Clayborn, Bennett, and Bowers, I see DE as the biggest issue. Bowers and Bennett could end up being great rotational guys, but we don't have a pass rushing DE outside of Clayborn.

A thinker. I like you and I absolutely agree. Thanks for showing the numbers.
_________________

Adopt-a-Buc Lavonte David 12 Games | 133 Tackles (16 for loss) | 1 Sack | 4 PDs | 3 FFs | 1 FR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 8642
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucsfan333 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I was going to start a thread with a similar idea. I noticed some stats regarding our defense a few weeks ago but never got around to posting it.

We are 32nd in pass defense. Which we can all agree, is awful. The only debate is whether the pass rush or the coverage is more to blame. Both deserve it, but I think one is worse.

But, we're 21st in opposing QB rating. Still not good, but much better than last. What it means is despite the high YPA (31st) and completion percentage (30th) we do give up, we don't give up a lot of TDs (tied for 18th in the league with 3 other teams) and get a good amount of INTs (3rd in the league).

We're also tied for 28th in the league in sacks. I'd be willing to be we are also very low in hits and pressures.

What these stats say to me is that opposing QBs have more time to throw more than they are just quickly finding the open man. We wouldn't be allowing such a high YPA if that weren't true, IMO.

The issue is the pass rush, IMO, and the DEs aren't getting it done. Even with Clayborn, Bennett, and Bowers, I see DE as the biggest issue. Bowers and Bennett could end up being great rotational guys, but we don't have a pass rushing DE outside of Clayborn.

A thinker. I like you and I absolutely agree. Thanks for showing the numbers.


Yep. 100% agree. Just think about it. Why do you think QBs are able to complete so many 3rd and longs on us? Because the pass rush doesn't make the QB make a quicker throw or force it.

Also, anyone else notice how heavy Bowers has gotten? Wow. Seems like he's really packed on some weight since last year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4240
Location: PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I was going to start a thread with a similar idea. I noticed some stats regarding our defense a few weeks ago but never got around to posting it.

We are 32nd in pass defense. Which we can all agree, is awful. The only debate is whether the pass rush or the coverage is more to blame. Both deserve it, but I think one is worse.

But, we're 21st in opposing QB rating. Still not good, but much better than last. What it means is despite the high YPA (31st) and completion percentage (30th) we do give up, we don't give up a lot of TDs (tied for 18th in the league with 3 other teams) and get a good amount of INTs (3rd in the league).

We're also tied for 28th in the league in sacks. I'd be willing to be we are also very low in hits and pressures.

What these stats say to me is that opposing QBs have more time to throw more than they are just quickly finding the open man. We wouldn't be allowing such a high YPA if that weren't true, IMO.

The issue is the pass rush, IMO, and the DEs aren't getting it done. Even with Clayborn, Bennett, and Bowers, I see DE as the biggest issue. Bowers and Bennett could end up being great rotational guys, but we don't have a pass rushing DE outside of Clayborn.

A thinker. I like you and I absolutely agree. Thanks for showing the numbers.


Yep. 100% agree. Just think about it. Why do you think QBs are able to complete so many 3rd and longs on us? Because the pass rush doesn't make the QB make a quicker throw or force it.

Also, anyone else notice how heavy Bowers has gotten? Wow. Seems like he's really packed on some weight since last year.


I noticed that too, but to be fair he probably had to eat a lot to keep what muscle he had and wasn't burning much for the majority of his recovery.

Easier to lose weight than rebuild all that body mass.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RoeKG


Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4240
Location: PA
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
bucsfan333 wrote:
RoeKG wrote:
I was going to start a thread with a similar idea. I noticed some stats regarding our defense a few weeks ago but never got around to posting it.

We are 32nd in pass defense. Which we can all agree, is awful. The only debate is whether the pass rush or the coverage is more to blame. Both deserve it, but I think one is worse.

But, we're 21st in opposing QB rating. Still not good, but much better than last. What it means is despite the high YPA (31st) and completion percentage (30th) we do give up, we don't give up a lot of TDs (tied for 18th in the league with 3 other teams) and get a good amount of INTs (3rd in the league).

We're also tied for 28th in the league in sacks. I'd be willing to be we are also very low in hits and pressures.

What these stats say to me is that opposing QBs have more time to throw more than they are just quickly finding the open man. We wouldn't be allowing such a high YPA if that weren't true, IMO.

The issue is the pass rush, IMO, and the DEs aren't getting it done. Even with Clayborn, Bennett, and Bowers, I see DE as the biggest issue. Bowers and Bennett could end up being great rotational guys, but we don't have a pass rushing DE outside of Clayborn.

A thinker. I like you and I absolutely agree. Thanks for showing the numbers.


Yep. 100% agree. Just think about it. Why do you think QBs are able to complete so many 3rd and longs on us? Because the pass rush doesn't make the QB make a quicker throw or force it.

Also, anyone else notice how heavy Bowers has gotten? Wow. Seems like he's really packed on some weight since last year.


The 3rd down point is another good one. On 3rd and long everyone on the field knows what is coming and we still can't pressure the QB, and we don't make many stops (25th in the league in 3rd down stop percentage). Thing is, with the way we play the run (#1 and pulling away from the rest - I know we all know this but it's awesome enough to postbrag about), we end up with a lot of 3rd and longs. The percentage is low but I would love to see how many yards we give up on 3rd downs.

So in other words, we are EXTRA bad at getting to the QB, even somewhat worse than these stats say. So if anyone wonders why we blitz DBs or drop 8 into coverage, it's probably because Sheridan is desperate for something to happen and rushing 4 guys isn't working.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Soul Glo


Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 2806
Location: FL
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God we miss Clayborn. Need Bowers and Clayborn healthy and together and keep Bennett you get a solid DE core. Still a need another impactful DT and must get a speed rusher. But lets be honest out CBs suck, we are relying on a UDFA. Our corners at worst, are equal (probably more) in blame.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Tampa Bay Buccaneers All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group