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Musgrave isn't the problem...
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thestonedkoala


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Musgrave isn't the problem... Reply with quote

There, I said it. Musgrave isn't the problem. He's part of a larger problem but he isn't the only problem. I see a lot of mocks calling him to be fired. Is that really going to change anything? He's a veteran coach in the NFL. It starts at the top and goes down. If Frazier was unhappy with the offense, he should have more control over it, but he's not. Yes, he's a defensive minded coach but when you're a head coach, you got to balance it out. You may lean on your offensive coach for more insight but if your red zone offense is atrocious week in and week out, wouldn't you think your boss would speak up and ask you, what's going on? Or at least get you to change the offense a bit. Furthermore, we really don't know what's going on with the personal. Musgrave might not have a ton of trust in Ponder or the receivers. Or he doesn't want to wear down Peterson to the point he gets injured again. But yeah, Musgrave isn't the only problem this organization has. It's ridiculous that Frazier and Williams gets a pass but it's all Musgrave's fault.
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Vikefan79


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rd and 2 - Pass play
4th and 2 - Pass play


This is why people don't care for Musgrave. Peterson is carrying us down the field and he ruins that momentum but calling poorly executed pass plays.
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BadgerBoy001


Joined: 08 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like his scheme, but hate the playcalling
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Swaps


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadgerBoy001 wrote:
I like his scheme, but hate the playcalling


couldn't have said it better myself.

And the two passing plays on 3rd and 4th and 2 are the dumbest play calls ever. This man needs to go. I doubt that Norv Turner is the best fit for this team, but it's obvious that Musgrave certainly is not.
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SteelKing728


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's alot of things into a coach calling his plays.

He has to adjust to his QBs strengths, the way the RB plays, whether he's a scatback, powerback, 3rd down back etc., The Oline's strengths, the route running for WRs etc.

There's more to it than "Here's the play. Do it". Every Offensive Coordinator has to work around what he's got. Musgrave is calling the play based on what he thinks will be the best possible option for the team

But overall, I think his playcalling has just been horrible. There are times to run the ball, and times to throw. I can't tell you how many times where we had our best chance of picking up a first by just running Peterson one more time, and we call a throw and Ponder gets sacked. Other times its clear a good time to pass, and he tries to get cute and run the ball. His playcalling is just sickening.

Not only that, but he utilizes some players so wrong. Anytime Stephen Burton is on the field, we are looking at 80% run down. Why? Because Burton is a good blocker. Thats it. Dude can't catch a could.

Then there were times we'd take out Peterson on 3rd down , and we'd bring in Gerhart. He goes in there to block, or be the dump down pass for Ponder. At this point everyone on the defense knows its a pass, and they go right ahead and collapse the middle.

and don't even get me started with "The Blazer Package". LOL, that was honestly the dumbest decision to do. Joe Webb can't play Wildcat QB. No one respects him as a passer. Put him in as a conventional QB, and all of a sudden, teams have to respect a passing game, and it gives Joe a chance to run.

Musgrave has horribly mismanaged this team. We are lacking talent at key spots, but Bill is just making it worse ("Compounding" the issue?). He needs to go.
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still like Musgrave, and wouldn't want him fired. Biggest thing for him is to stop overthinking himself at times, and run a more direct offense at times. He's already improved on this from earlier in the season, but at times he'll revert back to his old ways (i.e. not running AP in the redzone).

He's still done a pretty good job with the material at his disposal. I really like his draw run plays we've seen for the past few weeks, AP is looking better than ever, and the pass offence is probably about as good as it can be right now, considering the personnel.

Even with the lack of big-plays and turnover defense, the Vikings are ranked 15th in points/game. Not great by any means, but better than you would expect with the lack of a vertical passing attack. This team isn't a top 10 scoring team in this league. If you look at those teams, almost all of them have a franchise QB, and/or several good wide recievers. We have neither at the moment.
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The Gnat


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BadgerBoy001 wrote:
I like his scheme, but hate the playcalling


I agree with this, so I'm not ready to pull the plug on him, might as well let him ride out Ponder's time starting and see if they both can turn it around. He has a good scheme in what he does, he just needs to call plays better, and often the play calls aren't too bad and the execution is just off. A pass play on 3rd and 2 when you are going to go for it on fourth down, dumb, a pass play on 4th and 2, not really all that dumb, I mean with a team that stars Adrian Peterson people are going to stack to stop him, so I'd go goalline and have a roll out play with a dump off to a TE available or the option for Ponder to scramble. But there are a lot of little things that he does need to do better with play calling.
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El Raymundo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
3rd and 2 - Pass play
4th and 2 - Pass play


This is why people don't care for Musgrave. Peterson is carrying us down the field and he ruins that momentum but calling poorly executed pass plays.


I'm pretty slow to get on the "Fire The Coach" bandwagon, but I admit to being really POd by the paycalling on those two downs. Why on God's green earth was Peterson not in the game on 4th and 2 with the game on the line? That's a tough one to explain.
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with his philosophy, but his playcalling and adjustment are lacking to say the least. The offense is terribly predictable. I give him credit for utilizing Harvin early on after grossly misusing him a year ago. However when teams took that away, he had no answer. It took several games for him to adjust and we still haven't seen anything to suggest he can be successful. When you have Adrian Peterson run for 100+ a game, a good coordinator should be able to get the passing game going, regardless of the personnel.
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El Raymundo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought he adjusted to not having Harvin pretty well in the Detroit game.

I was generally ok with the playcalling in the Chicago game, until the end when Peterson was standing on the sidelines on 4th and 2. WR drops - I'm looking at you, Mr. Simpson - killed us in that game.
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PrplChilPill


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE problem, no. One of the problems, I think so. On third and less than 3 Peterson should get the ball.
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Mossburg


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vikefan79 wrote:
3rd and 2 - Pass play
4th and 2 - Pass play


This is why people don't care for Musgrave. Peterson is carrying us down the field and he ruins that momentum but calling poorly executed pass plays.


Well, he's definitely CALLING the pass plays, but I don't think he's calling them to be poorly executed. Laughing
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CriminalMind


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With AP in the backfield, the play calling should be relatively easy.
His choice of plays in situations is very questionable, given our personel on the field.

Simple play calling is all that is needed.
When you have the best weapon behind a QB in the league, you should be utilizing his talents to the max.
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milanb


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mossburg wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
3rd and 2 - Pass play
4th and 2 - Pass play


This is why people don't care for Musgrave. Peterson is carrying us down the field and he ruins that momentum but calling poorly executed pass plays.


Well, he's definitely CALLING the pass plays, but I don't think he's calling them to be poorly executed. Laughing


Yes, and a month ago people were complaining because Musgrave was calling running plays in the Red Zone.

Confused
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Kellerman


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CriminalMind wrote:
With AP in the backfield, the play calling should be relatively easy.
His choice of plays in situations is very questionable, given our personel on the field.

Simple play calling is all that is needed.
When you have the best weapon behind a QB in the league, you should be utilizing his talents to the max.


Adrian Peterson is ranked #1 in the league in rushing, 162 yards ahead of Arian Foster and the vaunted Texans zone-scheme. He's ranked #2 in touchdowns, tied with Ray Rice at 7. He is averaging almost 6 yard/carry, and completely blows other runningbacks out of the water in most, if not all categories.

Now Peterson is a special talent, so you don't get that production with just any guy, but I fail to see the part where we are not using AP.

Musgrave has his flaws, but if we zoom out and look at the big picture, the run game has been excellent this year. AP is having a career season, how is Musgrave not 'utilizing' his talents?
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