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Raiders cut LB Rolando McClain; Update - Suspended instead
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
In transitions, if a player retires, is traded, or is cut before June 1, all remaining bonus is applied to the salary cap for the current season. If the payroll change occurs after June 1, the current season's bonus proration is unchanged, and the next year's cap must absorb the entire remaining bonus.


Just to clarify, I read the above as (for example) if Seymour were to retire after the season, say in May 2013 ALL of his bonuses for ALL the remaining seasons of his contract are added into the 2013 cap......is this correct??

Just the "guaranteed" bonuses like signing bonus...roster bonuses or other achievable bonuses are not...


OK, that could make a significant difference then depending upon the contract changes that were instigated when Reggie took the reigns.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a look at all the dead money


Kamerion Wimbley DE 6,500,000 - - 6,500,000
Stanford Routt CB 5,000,000 - - 5,000,000
Kevin Boss TE 4,250,000 - - 4,250,000
John Henderson DT 2,250,000 - - 2,250,000
Hiram Eugene S 1,225,000 - - 1,225,000
Chris Johnson CB 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Aaron Curry LB 754,000 - - 754,000
Cooper Carlisle G 600,000 - - 600,000
Daniel Loper T 300,000 - - 300,000
Bruce Campbell T 261,250 - - 261,250
DeMarcus Van Dyke CB 147,844 - - 147,844
Joe Barksdale T 134,950 - - 134,950
Louis Murphy WR 112,000 - - 112,000
Chimdi Chekwa CB 111,300 - - 111,300






http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap-hit/
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:

OK, that could make a significant difference then depending upon the contract changes that were instigated when Reggie took the reigns.


According to this: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/

the acceleration or dead money amount would be 5.26M (unless some portion of his base salary is guaranteed).
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oakdb36


Joined: 02 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:
Take a look at all the dead money


Kamerion Wimbley DE 6,500,000 - - 6,500,000
Stanford Routt CB 5,000,000 - - 5,000,000
Kevin Boss TE 4,250,000 - - 4,250,000
John Henderson DT 2,250,000 - - 2,250,000
Hiram Eugene S 1,225,000 - - 1,225,000
Chris Johnson CB 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Aaron Curry LB 754,000 - - 754,000
Cooper Carlisle G 600,000 - - 600,000
Daniel Loper T 300,000 - - 300,000
Bruce Campbell T 261,250 - - 261,250
DeMarcus Van Dyke CB 147,844 - - 147,844
Joe Barksdale T 134,950 - - 134,950
Louis Murphy WR 112,000 - - 112,000
Chimdi Chekwa CB 111,300 - - 111,300






http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap-hit/


It's for this year though.
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what anyone means when they say "pay" for these changes?

Cap hits and dead money are just cap numbers, they're not real money. You "pay" for them by suffering the cap dead money, limiting you from paying part of your cap allotment to actual players, and then seeing it wiped off the next year thus freeing it up to then pay to actual active players. The cap hit is not a number you are actually paying anyone. It's just the portion of your allotted payroll assigned to that player on your roster or off it. It's an allotment, a mathematical calculation standardized for each team. It's monopoly money.

As far as guaranteed money, if there is remaining guaranteed money and you cut the guy, you pay him the money. Just like Deangelo Hall, or Jamarcus Russell, or the guy they just did the same thing with in Routt, or a host of others.. What's the question here?

You make it sound as if you all know what the details are of Seymour, Huff, Kelly, and McClain's contracts. You really don't, you only know what is reported by others, and those others who really can't say for certain either but need to report something. And even then those details are always incomplete. There could be dates by which guaranteed roster bonuses are due, etc. etc. etc.

All I am doing here is reading into the changes going on right now, on the field with Allen's decisions, in the press conferences with McKenzie's comments. So far, McKenzie has done exactly what he said he was going to do, and has focused on exactly what he said he would focus on. So why is anyone under the impression that won't continue despite the suffering caused by a heap more dead money on our cap? The dude said straight out it's a long term rebuild he has in mind, and has backed it up all along the way. Long term rebuilds like this happen by clearing out crap like this, dead money, guaranteed money to underperformers, scholarships, suffocating contracts, bad seed players, etc.
Short term suffering leads to long term cap health and proper payroll management from scratch. The staff and McKenzie are trying to get to scratch, a zero point at which they can build their team and no longer have to steal Peter to pay Paul like the team was run in the past. Anyone thinking that this staff will not remove underperformers because of salary cap issues, guaranteed payouts, and dead money is not paying attention to what they have been saying all along is their plan.

I'll repeat now what a wise poster said not a week ago. "Stop thinking the organization and staff thinks the way you do."

Honestly, maybe Huff survives. But he's definitely not worth 10 mil so I wouldn't count on it. I hope to God Kelly doesn't survive and I wouldn't count on that either. And I cannot see, at 15 million, how Seymour possibly survives this. As for McClain, I would think his suspension and demotion says quite a bit about his future here. 6.6 mil in salary paid out or 7.2 mil in dead money not paid out doesn't make any difference of note to the cap. The difference is in actually paying 6.6 mil to a slop, with a poor attitude and even worse play. Do you really expect to believe they will pay him 6.6 million dollars to avoid an additional half million on the cap, rather than eat the half million on the cap and pay him nothing?
Anyone believing that needs to stop posting until they read alot of material in order to garner a better understanding of football economics. Cap figures are not real money.
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bitty


Joined: 19 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Take a look at all the dead money


Kamerion Wimbley DE 6,500,000 - - 6,500,000
Stanford Routt CB 5,000,000 - - 5,000,000
Kevin Boss TE 4,250,000 - - 4,250,000
John Henderson DT 2,250,000 - - 2,250,000
Hiram Eugene S 1,225,000 - - 1,225,000
Chris Johnson CB 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Aaron Curry LB 754,000 - - 754,000
Cooper Carlisle G 600,000 - - 600,000
Daniel Loper T 300,000 - - 300,000
Bruce Campbell T 261,250 - - 261,250
DeMarcus Van Dyke CB 147,844 - - 147,844
Joe Barksdale T 134,950 - - 134,950
Louis Murphy WR 112,000 - - 112,000
Chimdi Chekwa CB 111,300 - - 111,300






http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap-hit/


It's for this year though.


Yes you can't find out next year until people get cut in the offseason
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:

OK, that could make a significant difference then depending upon the contract changes that were instigated when Reggie took the reigns.


According to this: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/richard-seymour/

the acceleration or dead money amount would be 5.26M (unless some portion of his base salary is guaranteed).

Which is a lot less then his salary...it means saving!!
Sam ewith TK, DHB...
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitty wrote:

Yes you can't find out next year until people get cut in the offseason


Correct. Curry will carry some. McClain seems well on his way too. And some others.

But the list you posted will be history by then. That's all i was trying to say.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to correct myself actually.

Van Dyke will count for 295k against our cap in 2013.
Barksdale for 269K.
Chekwa for 226K.

They were all post june 1st cuts. For the same reason, Curry will count against it as well (i believe 1.5M).
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Rolni


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
I need to correct myself actually.

Van Dyke will count for 295k against our cap in 2013.
Barksdale for 269K.
Chekwa for 226K.

They were all post june 1st cuts. For the same reason, Curry will count against it as well (i believe 1.5M).


According to my books Smile Curry's number will be 1.508.000 against the cap...
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolni wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
I need to correct myself actually.

Van Dyke will count for 295k against our cap in 2013.
Barksdale for 269K.
Chekwa for 226K.

They were all post june 1st cuts. For the same reason, Curry will count against it as well (i believe 1.5M).


According to my books Smile Curry's number will be 1.508.000 against the cap...


Yeah, something like that. And i have our projected cap number for 2013 at 119.301.770 with the players currently under contracts for 2013. Crazy thing is that it's only 34 players.
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ZoomWaffle


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Take a look at all the dead money


Kamerion Wimbley DE 6,500,000 - - 6,500,000
Stanford Routt CB 5,000,000 - - 5,000,000
Kevin Boss TE 4,250,000 - - 4,250,000
John Henderson DT 2,250,000 - - 2,250,000
Hiram Eugene S 1,225,000 - - 1,225,000
Chris Johnson CB 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Aaron Curry LB 754,000 - - 754,000
Cooper Carlisle G 600,000 - - 600,000
Daniel Loper T 300,000 - - 300,000
Bruce Campbell T 261,250 - - 261,250
DeMarcus Van Dyke CB 147,844 - - 147,844
Joe Barksdale T 134,950 - - 134,950
Louis Murphy WR 112,000 - - 112,000
Chimdi Chekwa CB 111,300 - - 111,300






http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap-hit/


It's for this year though.


Thats over $20M Shocked
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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Location: ATL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
bitty wrote:
Take a look at all the dead money


Kamerion Wimbley DE 6,500,000 - - 6,500,000
Stanford Routt CB 5,000,000 - - 5,000,000
Kevin Boss TE 4,250,000 - - 4,250,000
John Henderson DT 2,250,000 - - 2,250,000
Hiram Eugene S 1,225,000 - - 1,225,000
Chris Johnson CB 1,000,000 - - 1,000,000
Aaron Curry LB 754,000 - - 754,000
Cooper Carlisle G 600,000 - - 600,000
Daniel Loper T 300,000 - - 300,000
Bruce Campbell T 261,250 - - 261,250
DeMarcus Van Dyke CB 147,844 - - 147,844
Joe Barksdale T 134,950 - - 134,950
Louis Murphy WR 112,000 - - 112,000
Chimdi Chekwa CB 111,300 - - 111,300






http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/cap-hit/


It's for this year though.


How can that be correct? Campbell and Murphy were traded with their contracts right?
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sucks that cleaning Al's mess will take this much time.........
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DOCLEW 28


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't look like its too much time. Don't these numbers come off the books for next year? That would mean a lot more money for free agents.
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